2020 US presidential election

[Mightysword]

I think the DNC is at it again. They screwed Sanders over in 2016. I wouldn't be surprised if they played games to make sure Bernie loses and their pick runs.

Eh I was afraid of that, and by 'that' I mean this will somehow fuel the 101 different conspiracies from both sides. You know I never jump on the bandwagon and keep my distance on the numerous conspiracies piled against the right or the president, and I will also do the same in this cast against the left.

Incompetence? Sure, that much is obvious. But unless I see solid, hard evidence of some larger powerplay, I'll keep this in good faith and assume this is just that: incompetent. It's not healthy for the democracy process when people start making guess and assumption base on their own bias.

[fiksal]

I'd settle for better software engineers .

Better indeed. It's not that hard.

As far as elections are concerned, my preference would be fewer software engineers, and indeed less software. There is no situation in which involving software in your election is improving matters.

Of course, dont need to involve electronics with voting. But if one wants to, go half paper and half digital, then why not. Digital records can be saved for a long time, if done correctly.

Many software engineers do this daily.

[Ketraar]

From what I read/watched there are both analog and digital counts, the issue seems to be more about presentation (which some argue is the main purpose of this event thus the big deal).

MFG

Ketraar

[Bishop149]

Surprised no one has posed this yet

I think the DNC is at it again. They screwed Sanders over in 2016. I wouldn't be surprised if they played games to make sure Bernie loses and their pick runs.

Eh I was afraid of that, and by 'that' I mean this will somehow fuel the 101 different conspiracies from both sides. You know I never jump on the bandwagon and keep my distance on the numerous conspiracies piled against the right or the president, and I will also do the same in this cast against the left.

Incompetence? Sure, that much is obvious. But unless I see solid, hard evidence of some larger powerplay, I'll keep this in good faith and assume this is just that: incompetent. It's not healthy for the democracy process when people start making guess and assumption base on their own bias.

I dunno.
It looks shady as hell.
It also looks incompetent as hell.
My guess as always with such things is "both" although in what ratio I have no idea.

[red assassin]

Eh I was afraid of that, and by 'that' I mean this will somehow fuel the 101 different conspiracies from both sides. You know I never jump on the bandwagon and keep my distance on the numerous conspiracies piled against the right or the president, and I will also do the same in this cast against the left.

Incompetence? Sure, that much is obvious. But unless I see solid, hard evidence of some larger powerplay, I'll keep this in good faith and assume this is just that: incompetent. It's not healthy for the democracy process when people start making guess and assumption base on their own bias.

I dunno.
It looks shady as hell.
It also looks incompetent as hell.
My guess as always with such things is "both" although in what ratio I have no idea.

Here's what I don't get about the conspiracy theories: What exactly was this supposed to achieve? We know there's a paper trail backup to the app because apparently they're not total incompetents, so any conspiracy to fiddle the results would have to be capable of interfering with the paper trail. If you can do that, why introduce the app in the first place? It's just another thing you need to manipulate, and given the timescale it was developed on, it's also a massive unknown in your cunning plans. Plus the resulting chaos just attracts more attention and more scrutiny of the eventual results. It just doesn't make sense. Meanwhile the entire debacle is trivially explained by people who don't understand software signing software contracts and an inexperienced software company over-promising.

[Ketraar]

@red assassin psscht! Logic and common sense were banned in 2018.

MFG

Ketraar

[CBJ]

Hanlon will just have to grow a beard.

[fiksal]

Here's what I don't get about the conspiracy theories: What exactly was this supposed to achieve?

Something something deep state something something deathstar something something complete?
But really, most conspiracy "theories" can be explained by stupidity.


While the comic above is still funny, it still amazes me how tech not savvy people in US politics are. As I said previously, it's not a hard task.

[Mightysword]

[
Here's what I don't get about the conspiracy theories: What exactly was this supposed to achieve? We know there's a paper trail backup to the app because apparently they're not total incompetents, so any conspiracy to fiddle the results would have to be capable of interfering with the paper trail. If you can do that, why introduce the app in the first place? It's just another thing you need to manipulate, and given the timescale it was developed on, it's also a massive unknown in your cunning plans. Plus the resulting chaos just attracts more attention and more scrutiny of the eventual results. It just doesn't make sense. Meanwhile the entire debacle is trivially explained by people who don't understand software signing software contracts and an inexperienced software company over-promising.

It's not much different than most argument where people are obsessed with the one thing. Those who produce it only look at one thing from one angle, and those who consume it are so desperately tunnel vision to cling onto their chosen narrative. That's why most conspiracies are easily debunk if one just take a little step back and look from multiple angles. Usually to me conspiracy logic only works when one assume people will be happy to cut off their nose for a chance of spiting their face.

[pjknibbs]

Here's what I don't get about the conspiracy theories: What exactly was this supposed to achieve? We know there's a paper trail backup to the app because apparently they're not total incompetents, so any conspiracy to fiddle the results would have to be capable of interfering with the paper trail. If you can do that, why introduce the app in the first place?

Basically, they shouldn't be allowing software anywhere near the voting process, precisely because it *is* unreliable and easy to interfere with. There's a reason that UK elections still involve paper ballots being counted manually in a community centre somewhere--it's not that we can't use the technology, we choose not to. Good Tom Scott video on the subject here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs

Anyway, I don't buy in to the conspiracy theories here--never ascribe to malicious intent that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

[Bishop149]

Here's what I don't get about the conspiracy theories: What exactly was this supposed to achieve? We know there's a paper trail backup to the app because apparently they're not total incompetents, so any conspiracy to fiddle the results would have to be capable of interfering with the paper trail. If you can do that, why introduce the app in the first place? It's just another thing you need to manipulate, and given the timescale it was developed on, it's also a massive unknown in your cunning plans. Plus the resulting chaos just attracts more attention and more scrutiny of the eventual results. It just doesn't make sense. Meanwhile the entire debacle is trivially explained by people who don't understand software signing software contracts and an inexperienced software company over-promising.

Problem here is that you're assuming the conspiracy itself is not also incompetent . . . . . even to the point of pointlessness.

[Vertigo 7]

rwnjs have to have conspiracy theories to survive. It's basically their default setting.

Anywho, whether paper or electronic ballots, doesn't really matter. Neither one is fool proof. It's more of a question of competence and trust of the people running it. If they didn't thoroughly test this platform before it went live, they ****** up. And if they didn't have an immediate fall back plan ready to roll out, again, they ****** up. Piss Poor Planning Produces Poor Performance. It's not much more complicated than that.

[red assassin]

Basically, they shouldn't be allowing software anywhere near the voting process, precisely because it *is* unreliable and easy to interfere with. There's a reason that UK elections still involve paper ballots being counted manually in a community centre somewhere--it's not that we can't use the technology, we choose not to. Good Tom Scott video on the subject here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs

Anyway, I don't buy in to the conspiracy theories here--never ascribe to malicious intent that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

Oh I'm not arguing for a moment that this was a good idea - I just think it's a good old fashioned stupid idea, not a malicious one.

Problem here is that you're assuming the conspiracy itself is not also incompetent . . . . . even to the point of pointlessness.

You'd need the conspiracy to be at once competent enough to get everyone to sign up for the app plan and leave no actual evidence of doing so nor of tampering with the results, and yet incompetent enough to actively self-sabotage with an obviously daft plan. Don't think I buy that theory, either.

[Observe]

Iowa Caucus voting App meltdown. What a debacle.

So a bunch of wannabe techno stars came up with the idea that they were going to lift the Democrat party out of the dark ages, into the modern age of the whizbang wizardy of Mobile Apps. Ostensibly, this would give liberals an advantage, because then they could see clouds from both sides now, or some such mumbo jumbo.

Yet another example of why we need LESS not more software developers, LESS not more technology.

[Vertigo 7]

bah, no thanks. Moar technology! There's too much of the universe that's still unknown and if we don't advance technology, we'll never discover it. Sides, I still want my self-driving flying car, dammit!

[RegisterMe]

Yet another example of why we need LESS not more software developers, LESS not more technology.

I disagree. We need technology that works. That is secure, and that cannot be undermined.

And whilst we're on the subject of elections how about less (ie no) gerrymandering, which has nothing to do with technology, and less (ie no) prevention / inhibition of voting (ie none of the above).

My fear is that, a few years down the line, the US will face an upswelling of resentment at the lack of representation.

And you'll have another tea party.

Only with assault rifles.

And race.

And religion.

And it will be... fugly. Even without any external help.

[Vertigo 7]

Oh it's coming. The day white people are no longer the majority of the population, I can damn well guarantee you they'll revolt, or a portion at any rate.

[RegisterMe]

Well, as most of you know, I'm not big on religion. But it has coined a pithy phrase or two.

[Mightysword]

Even without the conspiracies stuff I don't know if the Democrat in the last few days realize that they're not exactly being helpful to themselves. I meant the way everyone pile in on it.

I admit being an independent I don't know much about either party Caucuses, its composition or process. What I do know though, is they often are events of great fanfare and import and it's a piece of the cake every campaign vile for (well except a certain wealthy former governor). Hell, before Monday you'll see how everyone talking about this will be historic, how it gonna propel the winner to the path, how it gonna shape the person to take on Trump ...etc... even as bystander one would feel a bit excited due to the festive vibe and atmosphere.

Now, due to ... technical reason it turned out to be a dud. I'm not saying it's ok or it doesn't make Democrat lose face. But in the end, it's just bad luck + incompetent, and most important of all it's just really one state. Criticize it, but focus and move on. The last two days though I see people piled on it on a bunch of different things:

- The caucuses things is old relic anyway, it sucks and always has been.
- It's undemocratic.
- It's not representative, inclusive in term of availability, lilke the time and commitment required to attend these events.
- It's 90% white people any way, and the candidate pick by caucuses is often not reflected what the (Democrat) electorate would want in general.
- The format means people might be pressured into changing their opinion.

And all of that came from the mouth of various Democrat (not Republican), CNN was flooded with such article yesterday. So what does it look like under a neutral POV? My thought process went like this:

- That was ... informative, I didn't know half of that about the process. ---> But I recognize most of those things. Half of them are what I hear Democrat bashing Republican "weekly"!! --> So Democrat themselves telling me that they're guilty of the same they accuses Republican for, and couldn't fix it in their own primary process.

Because, if these are the inherent issues with the process, then it wouldn't matter right? For example if Monday's night went without a hitch, that wouldn't make any of these issue disappear right, like it's not gonna make it's more inclusive and such. But apparently now they are only issues because it was a mess?

Now I'm not actually saying I believe these stuffs, even if it's Democrat talking about Democrat. I think there is a wisdom of keeping your mouth shut when emotion run high. But as an independent I feel Democrat just put themselves in a lose-lose situation here. Like ... should I believe them or not, because either way they lose.

- If I believe them: then it's mean they're hypocrite. It means everyone of their candidates (save one) and pretty much everyone else have been glamouring for that little piece of glory here, despite it has ... all of these deficiencies?
- If I don't believe them: the it'll just make them sore losers. Like when you see a bunch of guys chasing and worshiping the school's idol while can't keeping their mouth shut about how wonderful she is just to get on her bed. But when none of them could get it, they turn around and say "who care, she's such an ugly ***** anyway". Yeah, WHO gonna take those guys seriously? I don't.

Like I said, I wished they stayed focus on the reason of the melt down itself instead of extrapolate it into a bunch of different things. If the issues are being raised here, they should have raised it much earlier, or at least not around a time that they can be viewed of excuses of sore loser. But then, staying focus seem to be a chronic issue for Democrat's politic. The Republican's politic may be uglier, but you gotta admit, they know how to focus fire a hell lot better.


This is not meant to be taken as a conspiracy but treat as a funny meme that I think appropriate to describe Iowa right now:
- Russian hacker - the day before: we'll try to keep expectation low...
- Russian hacker - the day after: eh look like they hacked themselves.

And I ... actually don't find it funny.

[fiksal]

Would anyone be surprised that this wasn't without Trump's clan help?

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... ays-report