2020 US presidential election

[OneOfMany]

According to the current incumbent in his state of the union address, the last government did really badly and his government has done better by fixing what was going wrong.

So if you hate Trump but he's doing great for the country do you cheer him on, ie country before self. Or do you bring in another goverment you love, but you worry can't get the job done?

[Grim Lock]

Lol that's only if you take every word of Trump as beeing the cold hard truth, thus blindly trusting a politician. The sign of a fool in my book.

[fiksal]

According to the current incumbent in his state of the union address, the last government did really badly and his government has done better by fixing what was going wrong.

So if you hate Trump but he's doing great for the country do you cheer him on, ie country before self. Or do you bring in another goverment you love, but you worry can't get the job done?

If he'd be doing great, I'd cheer him, but he is not. That's the simple answer.

The complex answer, that presidents do not deserve praise any more than postal workers. Who are doing very important work.

[Vertigo 7]

According to the current incumbent in his state of the union address, the last government did really badly and his government has done better by fixing what was going wrong.

So if you hate Trump but he's doing great for the country do you cheer him on, ie country before self. Or do you bring in another goverment you love, but you worry can't get the job done?

Here's the thing. Trump is only doing great for the straight, white, "christian", male part of the country, esp the wealthy ones. The rest are little more than a fleeting thought to him. So, of course, the pro-white degenerates are gonna sing his praises.

As far as the last administration is concerned, whooo man. Dude inherited a ****** disaster from Bush #2. The housing market collapse, on going active fighting in the middle east, on and on. He did a lot of work to right the ship and along comes the Oompa Loompa to clog up the engine with hamburders and porn stars.

[Observe]

As we are nearing the election, I though it might be worthwhile reviving this thread. After all, it's not all about Trump.

Here is a refresher on the U.S. Presidential election. Naturally by the BBC.

Regarding the Democrat Vice President selection, to those on the far left and the far right, who would demonize Kamala Harris, you should thank your lucky stars, that she is Biden's VP choice.

If you are on the far left, you must know that the best chance of beating Trump, is via the middle-path of moderation. Biden's ticket represents that. If you are on the far right, you must know that Biden could have picked a more liberal running mate, who would potentially be much more dangerous from your point of view.

Looking at a bell curve of normal distribution, we can see that by definition, most people are moderates, who don't particularly agree with their more extreme brethren on either side of the spectrum. The razor sharp edge of the political pendulum, has left deep cuts in the fabric of our national and global society, as it has relentlessly and viciously swung to the left and to the right. We need a damping of the political carnage. Moderation may provide our society a much needed break from the constant strife that has brought most everyone to the point of exhaustion.

[Mightysword]

If you are on the far left, you must know that the best chance of beating Trump, is via the middle-path of moderation. Biden's ticket represents that. If you are on the far right, you must know that Biden could have picked a more liberal running mate, who would potentially be much more dangerous from your point of view.

I agree with most of this, except I don't think those on the far right are happy with Kamela (or Biden for that matter) ... for the exact reason you stated. It's because they know this combo has the best chance of winning for Democrat that they don't like it. I said it before, there is a reason both on and off the official channels there were a discrete show of support for Bernie sander "from the right", and Biden was already under-fire even before he became the candidate. The far right would had loved for Democrat to field a ticket as far left as possible because that would have improved Trump's chance.

What you said can apply to the centrist right leaning voters (they might even consider Biden a weak leftish who don't have the balls to push thing too far), but I don't imagine those on the 'far right' even want to entertain a "best case defeat scenario".

Looking at a bell curve of normal distribution, we can see that by definition, most people are moderates, who don't particularly agree with their more extreme brethren on either side of the spectrum. The razor sharp edge of the political pendulum, has left deep cuts in the fabric of our national and global society, as it has relentlessly and viciously swung to the left and to the right. We need a damping of the political carnage. Moderation may provide our society a much needed break from the constant strife that has brought most everyone to the point of exhaustion.

Correct, and just to make it clear this is not an empty "whataboutism", I don't know if you're making this statement with or without an evidence of your own, but there are data to support such a claim. I had posted it before, there are multiple studies in the US that's done yearly and run back for decades to track the political alignment among the US population. I had stated it a few times but I'll repeat it here: people who are neutral (in term of idealism alignment) and independent (in term of political loyalty) are the largest group of voters.

[Observe]

@Mightysword: I agree with your analysis and responses to my last post on all points.

[felter]

Trump is going to win the election. Not because of politics or who is running against him or even for popularity, but because Trump has his people in the right place to help him win. It's like when he said postal voting was going to be riddled with fraud, but what he didn't say that it was him who was going to be doing that fraud, it was him who was going to fix the mail in vote in his favour. He isn't even hiding it, he even went onto fox news and said he was cutting funding to the postal service to stop votes from being made. Meanwhile the person in charge of of the US postal service who by the way is a staunch Trump supporter, someone who has donated a lot of money to the republican party and Trump, he is stating he can't deliver the mail in votes in time to be counted, but just in states that are democratically held, blaming it on them for his ineptitude. The 2020 US Presidential election is going to be the most corrupt election in American history and that corruption is going to favour Donald J. Trump, and will give him the Presidency for the next 4 years.

[Vertigo 7]

Trump is going to win the election. Not because of politics or who is running against him or even for popularity, but because Trump has his people in the right place to help him win. It's like when he said postal voting was going to be riddled with fraud, but what he didn't say that it was him who was going to be doing that fraud, it was him who was going to fix the mail in vote in his favour. He isn't even hiding it, he even went onto fox news and said he was cutting funding to the postal service to stop votes from being made. Meanwhile the person in charge of of the US postal service who by the way is a staunch Trump supporter, someone who has donated a lot of money to the republican party and Trump, he is stating he can't deliver the mail in votes in time to be counted, but just in states that are democratically held, blaming it on them for his ineptitude. The 2020 US Presidential election is going to be the most corrupt election in American history and that corruption is going to favour Donald J. Trump, and will give him the Presidency for the next 4 years.

You also forgot to mention the Trump croney running the post office owns controlling shares of competing delivery services.

But that doesn't mean Trump is going to win. He's doing this because he knows he's going to loose, badly. It's the same reason he got Kanye to get his name on the ballot. He hopes voter suppression and trying to snake black votes away from Biden will be enough for him.

[Vertigo 7]

@felter Take a long hard look at this map. The one thing this should tell you is that the vast majority of Americans do not want to see Trump reelected. Trump has to win every tossup, which he's currently behind on in every single state, including Georgia, Texas, Arizona, and Nevada, as well as take wins in states that are already going to Biden. And before you bring up 2016, this is not even close to the same race. Even if all of the margins of error in all of the polling were in Trumps favor, he would still loose.

The point is, yes, he does have people helping him to sabotage the election, but it's not enough and he's drawn the ire of congress as well as the fractures in the GOP that are showing; those in the GOP that are breaking away and trying to save themselves are pushing against Trump's overt attacks. Just because he's doing something stupid, that doesn't mean we're just going to lay down and take it, especially without a $130,000 check.

[Ketraar]

Do we really need to go and fetch a prediction map from 2016? A google search will result in

• Associated Press: 274 vs 190
• Princeton EC: 308 - 215
• CNN: 268 - 204
• NBC: 274 - 214
  And so on and on...

The one thing we should have learned is that polls mean nothing.

MFG

Ketraar

PS.: Numbers are always Hillary vs Trump

[Vertigo 7]

Do we really need to go and fetch a prediction map from 2016? A google search will result in

• Associated Press: 274 vs 190
• Princeton EC: 308 - 215
• CNN: 268 - 204
• NBC: 274 - 214
  And so on and on...

The one thing we should have learned is that polls mean nothing.

MFG

Ketraar

PS.: Numbers are always Hillary vs Trump

Firstly, the polls were accurate. Trump won within the margin of error. Biden's lead is beyond the margin of error. 2ndly, the numbers you threw up were not reflective of same time period last cycle.
Example from Aug 9 2016:
https://www.270towin.com/news/2016/08/0 ... 4_349.html
Clinton was predicted with 249, Trump 164 with 125 tossups.

Today its already 272 to Biden and only 125 to Trump. Do you not understand the gravity of this? Trump is loosing in even staunchly republican states. If Biden just holds onto what he has, he's won. Trump is having to fight just to hold onto hillbilly land, meanwhile Biden is gaining more and more support all over the board. There has only been 1 incumbent president to come from behind and win reelection and that was Harry Truman in 1948.

[Ketraar]

Dont get me wrong, I hope you are right, but I dont think this is a done deal by a long shot.

MFg

Ketraar

[Vertigo 7]

Dont get me wrong, I hope you are right, but I dont think this is a done deal by a long shot.

MFg

Ketraar

Oh I'm definitely not saying it's done. I mean, we have to vote. I'm going to vote whether Biden has a 10% shot or a 100% shot. I'm just saying, specifically to felter, that we are not just sitting around with our thumbs up our ass while Trump destroys this country.

[RegisterMe]

Nor do I .

Dems have to get the vote out.
Dems have have to convert some previous GoP support.
Voter suppression has to be a real fear.
And then there's the potential wonkiness of the electoral college system.

This ain't over yet.

[Vertigo 7]

Nor do I .

Dems have to get the vote out.
Dems have have to convert some previous GoP support.
Voter suppression has to be a real fear.
And then there's the potential wonkiness of the electoral college system.

This ain't over yet.

you're absolutely right and its all being hit. Dejoy is even being summoned to appear before congress and there's a high likelihood that he's going to face some criminal charges, if for nothing else than the millions he's making from screwing up the post office.

[Mightysword]

Dont get me wrong, I hope you are right, but I dont think this is a done deal by a long shot.

I would say some feeling of 'fear' that Trump can still win in November is healthy at this point, much better than the landslide confidence in 2016 at least.

[felter]

And all I'm saying is don't count your chickens before they're hatched. That's what happened four years ago, Clinton just couldn't loose. It's what the Brexit remainers did, they thought hey we can't loose. Until the 4th of November comes around, there is still a chance that Trump could win. Remember he is not afraid to break the law to get his way, and he is in a better position for doing that now than he was 4 years ago and he did it then and got away with it.

[Mightysword]

I would add something, he may still win even without any shenanigan involved. Now I know i have a history of not being a fan of the media, but what I'm about to say is not an attack on it, not this time at least.

I think for most us 'net citizen', it's easy to fall into a sense what we perceive as 'common' knowledge. Tbh, this is something I just realized myself very recently. I'm a white collar who normally spend the majority of waking hours at work with co-workers who mostly are as internet accessible as I am, and in my own time I also spend a lot of that on the net. While I'm always aware of the 'different in opinion', I had rarely thought about different 'exposure'. After half-a-year of staying home thanks to this pandemic, even though working remotely, the majority of my interaction has been with more immediate acquaintance ... who are mostly blue collars. And it dawned on me (again, just recently) that within my immediate community I'm like ... one of the few, if not the ONLY one who have net access.

My closest example living next to me: my dad. He doesn't really do English, so he drank none of the Kool-aid pouring by either side. Yes he knows the pandemic is bad, but despite my best effort to tell him the Government **** up this time, he doesn't seem to hold it accountable. (I think another similar example on here is ... Pkj's mom?) Don't get me wrong, it's not like we had an argument and he was defending Trump, it's more like 'it is what is it, this is fate no one can do anything about it'. I'm fairly sure he will vote Trump in November, 'cause like I said Vietnam vet like him has a traditional bias in favor of Republican. Also, remember how Trump sent a personal message with the previous $1200 check? While someone like me found it cringe to say the least, but guess what, objectively that was a genius move on Trump, it totally worked on my dad. Now think about it, that check went to the majority of Americans, even if only 1/4 of recipients were susceptible to it, it would have an effect that not even a year of media campaign can hope to achieve.

And no, please don't go around and label my dad as some kind of white supremacist devil, he's as cut off from politic as a monk living deep in the mountain. And that's just one example, I'm telling you I'm surrounded by similar. Even with native American who has English as first language, or people who're not that old, they are simple people who are fairly cut off from the 'passion of the internet', they just carry a different opinions than the usual common denominators we often take for granted. It's almost scary that as I go around a interact with 'my community', it feels almost like a complete different world to the one I've been living in the past 10 years!

The internet itself is like one gigantic echo chamber, it may gather a lot of people, but the # still pale comparing to the # actually out-here. And even that echo is not of one voice, but further divided into various sub-room. What I realized is that despite how popular, or common we (net citizen) think, there is a fairly good chance we'll run into more people who doesn't think like us than think the same as us if we walk around. I don't know if that favor a side specifically, but one I think I can say there is sufficient of these "wild cards" to toss the election either way despite what the polls may suggest.

[Vertigo 7]

I would add something, he may still win even without any shenanigan involved. Now I know i have a history of not being a fan of the media, but what I'm about to say is not an attack on it, not this time at least.

I think for most us 'net citizen', it's easy to fall into a sense what we perceive as 'common' knowledge. Tbh, this is something I just realized myself very recently. I'm a white collar who normally spend the majority of waking hours at work with co-workers who mostly are as internet accessible as I am, and in my own time I also spend a lot of that on the net. While I'm always aware of the 'different in opinion', I had rarely thought about different 'exposure'. After half-a-year of staying home thanks to this pandemic, even though working remotely, the majority of my interaction has been with more immediate acquaintance ... who are mostly blue collars. And it dawned on me (again, just recently) that within my immediate community I'm like ... one of the few, if not the ONLY one who have net access.

My closest example living next to me: my dad. He doesn't really do English, so he drank none of the Kool-aid pouring by either side. Yes he knows the pandemic is bad, but despite my best effort to tell him the Government **** up this time, he doesn't seem to hold it accountable. (I think another similar example on here is ... Pkj's mom?) Don't get me wrong, it's not like we had an argument and he was defending Trump, it's more like 'it is what is it, this is fate no one can do anything about it'. I'm fairly sure he will vote Trump in November, 'cause like I said Vietnam vet like him has a traditional bias in favor of Republican. Also, remember how Trump sent a personal message with the previous $1200 check? While someone like me found it cringe to say the least, but guess what, objectively that was a genius move on Trump, it totally worked on my dad. Now think about it, that check went to the majority of Americans, even if only 1/4 of recipients were susceptible to it, it would have an effect that not even a year of media campaign can hope to achieve.

And no, please don't go around and label my dad as some kind of white supremacist devil, he's as cut off from politic as a monk living deep in the mountain. And that's just one example, I'm telling you I'm surrounded by similar. Even with native American who has English as first language, or people who're not that old, they are simple people who are fairly cut off from the 'passion of the internet', they just carry a different opinions than the usual common denominators we often take for granted. It's almost scary that as I go around a interact with 'my community', it feels almost like a complete different world to the one I've been living in the past 10 years!

The internet itself is like one gigantic echo chamber, it may gather a lot of people, but the # still pale comparing to the # actually out-here. And even that echo is not of one voice, but further divided into various sub-room. What I realized is that despite how popular, or common we (net citizen) think, there is a fairly good chance we'll run into more people who doesn't think like us than think the same as us if we walk around. I don't know if that favor a side specifically, but one I think I can say there is sufficient of these "wild cards" to toss the election either way despite what the polls may suggest.

I'm confused. A few months ago, you said your dad was royalty from Vietnam, then you said he was a soldier that was imprisoned, then he was a factory worker, now he's a monk? It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you can't keep your own stories straight.