How can I learn to play RPG games properly ?

[Rug]

@ Fiksal - I had to google MOBA to see what it meant. I don't think that's my cup of tea, but at least I know what it means now !

@ Olterin Good to know that it's not simply inbuilt in most people ... But I'm still struggling to learn who is good for what. For example a fighter character would seem to be ideal for a Tank. Which to me would mean a character who deals a load of damage. But it seems (from what I am learning) that a Tank is more of a wall for the team to hide behind, while the weak as you like wizard types deal out the big hits. Then there are priests, who are actually field medics, and thieves who are really sneaky assassin types ...

Is that right ? Is there a really simple guide to what the classes "should" do ? Does it matter ? Will it vary so wildly between games that one description would be useless for another game ? I was imagining that there would be a fair amount of transferable knowledge from Pillars of Eternity to Baldur's Gate to Planescape Torment to Divinity: Original Sin 2 etc.

So it's just a question of keep trying different things and maybe watching let's play stuff until it finally clicks ?

I have the same kind of dilemma with Civ games too. Just too many options at any one time, and not enough idea which is the rightest (?) one ... Linux as well, come to that. OK so I have a choice of 42,000 ways to play media files, all of which claim to be the bestest. Too much choice is too much for my poor brain. I don't like the constant feeling that I really should be doing things better ...

Oh well.

Rug

[pjknibbs]

Is that right ? Is there a really simple guide to what the classes "should" do ? Does it matter ?

No, because it depends on the game, and possibly the character build. For instance, back when I played WoW (jeez, is it really 13 years ago I quit that?) Warriors could be specced as main tanks, in which case they'd take all the talents which reduced incoming damage and allowed them to generate threat, or DPS, in which case they'd use a whopping two-handed sword and spec the talents which increased their damage output. Priests could be healers, or they could be Shadow Priests who were actually a DPS class. Then you got druids, who had animal forms which allowed them to (badly) replicate healers, tanks *or* DPS...

[Olterin]

Well, for myself I've broken down the process of how to build a party into roughly this:

Step 1: Imagine the ultimate "I can do anything" character. Does this work within the ruleset of the game? How much could the stats be pushed?
Step 2: Figure out (look up or try out) how the stat progression works (for example, the KOTOR paperback manuals notably feature a stat progression table, how many points of which type you get at which level)
Step 3: Split up the character imagined in step 1 into multiple ones that can each attain a reasonable subset of attributes with one, or at most two, main lines.

Step 3 usually results in a reasonable party. Figure out what each attribute is for within the game you intend to play, and see what stacking one (and maybe a secondary one) will get you. If the game has pre-defined strict classes, they may have a bias towards some attributes due to the skills they have, otherwise it's "make your own class" in the sense that you'll need to figure out which skills you want to be using and then boost the attributes that affect them. Not all games allow you to have everything at once in the same party. Depending on the ruleset, a usual good set of archetypes to run with is as follows: Crowd Control, Healer, Ranged Damage, Melee Damage/Tank (for a 4-member party setup). How that looks specifically in each game is very different, but this is a pretty broad bread-and-butter set of character archetypes that I've used (and seen used) to great effect in games ranging from KOTOR to XCOM:EU and XCOM2. These archetypes are fairly self-explanatory, however, for the sake of completeness here's the idea behind each of them:

Crowd Control: character that has abilities/items that influence enemy actions in your favor (applying movement impairment effects, accuracy effects or flat out stuns/dazes (which are also known as hard CC)); this is your primary force multiplier
Healer: character that is focused on keeping the rest of the group alive through damage mitigation and health replenishment; this is your other force multiplier that makes your character health go that much further
Ranged Damage: depending on setting, this is the character sitting out of range of the enemy while dealing pinpoint precision damage to single targets ... or wide area-of-effect attacks, the latter is another force multiplier which is usually very nice to have
Melee Damage/Tank: this is Gimli, he says hi to your enemies' faces with an axe ... or a shotgun, depending on the setting; the point is, this is the guy who gets in thick with the enemies and doesn't fear taking damage either as long as the healer's around somewhere - also, tends to draw attention away from the more vulnerable members of your party

The lines separating these can get rather blurry, and generally-speaking, the more different archetypes a single character combines, the weaker any single aspect will be. However, when mixing these with each other within reason, one can get pretty interesting and fun results. A common-enough example would be a Battlemage for a fantasy setting - he's the guy with magic spells, but also heavily armored and ready to get into the thick of things. The damage won't necessarily be quite as impressive as a pure glasscannon backline mage in the same setting, but this guy won't die from a stiff breeze either.

[fiksal]

@ Fiksal - I had to google MOBA to see what it meant. I don't think that's my cup of tea, but at least I know what it means now !

Right on

It's a good example because MOBAs really dig into those terms and concentrate on their special meanings.

MOBAs are highly competitive PVP games, in general. If you ever want to try one, I'd still suggest Heroes Of The Storm over League of Legends or DOTA. If.

[RegisterMe]

But they are not RPGs.

[Morkonan]

...So it's just a question of keep trying different things and maybe watching let's play stuff until it finally clicks ?
...

Most games aren't entirely focused on "min/maxxing" anything. In other words, a good game will not present a difficulty level that is impossible for anyone to overcome without making sure all of the tools they're using to overcome that obstacle are "perfect."

So, there's certainly a degree of freedom games allow for player choices and for variables in the game. Sure, you may not have yet been able to get that +5 sword, but that's OK since any magical beasties requiring magical weapons to hit only require a +2 weapon. etc..

Don't worry about all the fiddly bits being "perfect." Do what you can to understand the basic mechanics of the game and try to plan accordingly. The game will give you all the tools to achieve all its goals if it is a good game. Pillars of Eternity is supposed to be one of those "good games" and its developers have a lot of experience creating them, so I don't have any worries you'll figure it all out.

But, keep in mind - Not every popular game/genre appeals to all gamers. So, if you find it just all too confusing or it ends up not being appealing to you, don't try to force the issue. Just play something else or, maybe, find a different game or even find some mods or ways to make the game easier for you. There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with doing what it takes to enjoy a game if you really want to find ways to enjoy it.

[fiksal]

But they are not RPGs.

True that.

[Morkonan]

Well, for myself I've broken down the process of how to build a party into roughly this:
...

That's pretty much how most party-based RPGs are set up. Fans of the genre are used to dealing with those sorts of mechanics, so it's "comfortable" for them to get into. (Me too, as part of the "them.")

Some games break the mold, though. For instance, "classless" games that allow for the player to develop character's skills however they wish often end up with slightly different group mechanics. Predictable, since "specialization" can be difficult in those games. The downsides for not completely specializing into a proper "class role" are generally lower in those games and not penalized heavily.

A role that I find particularly interesting is "Melee DPS." In games that make specific allowances for that, there may be special mechanics. So "Dodge" and "Block" become just as powerful as "Hitpoints" and "Armor." The downside is often a form of "risk" with commensurate "reward." ie: Glass Cannon Syndrome - Character takes damage, character is grievously injured/dies in most higher-level encounters.

I'm currently playing "Kenshi" where this can be a definite factor with Melee DPS oriented characters. Heavy Armor reduces attack speed, attack damage, and some other critical "combat" stats to offset its protections. That does not matter much to end-game characters, but it does matter a bit as one slowly climbs that ladder. So, Melee DPS Glass Cannons can be a viable strat when paired with Taunt Tanks, for instance. Except, in Kenshi, limbs can get cut off an' stuff which often hamper's characters a little bit... It's also worth noting that there isn't really any such thing as "Tanky Ranged role" either. So, there's no classic "Ranger" character using a ranged weapon while armored in very protective armor.

In MMOs, some allow for some really weird combos, like "Dodge Tank", pure "Taunt Tank" with virtually no DPS, very specialized Ranged characters and spellcaster DPS or Support roles. But, each of those are played by individual players, so their play can be finely tuned at any one time during encounters which is easier to manage than one player controlling many different characters at a time. (Micromanaging highly tuned characters in a large group in a solo-RPG game can be a pain in the butt for every encounter.)