Coronavirus: COVID-19

[Alan Phipps]

"how to explain correlation and causation is not the same thing" - "Two words with different meanings aren't the same thing? Mind blowing revelations."

@ Vertigo 7: That's not so self-evident to people who don't understand the difference of their meanings and either equate them or think them very similar in application and impact.

[clakclak]

So Angela Merkel just got her AstraZeneca shot. I have been a strong critique of Merkel over the years, but assuming she actually got it, which I think is highly likely, I must say that was the move of a real leader. Her government said the vaccine was safe to take for people her age, it was her turn to get vaccinated and she did lead by example. Even though I spend hours upon hours raging against her policies, I think she is going to be missed once Söder assumes the position of chancellor later this year (that is unless the greens somehow manage to wrestle it away from the CDU).

[Tamina]

Haven't people in political key positions got a shot in most countries already ? I fail to see the importance of this event, honestly

[clakclak]

Haven't people in political key positions got a shot in most countries already ? I fail to see the importance of this event, honestly

Merkel did not use her political status to take her shot ealier than the average citizen, that is why she only gets her shot now, as Germany is really really slow when it comes to vaccines. She waited in line like a normal citizen. Maybe it is stupid to praise her for doing what should be normal, but I rarely see high ranking politicians willing to follow the same rules other citizen have to follow too. Certainly wouldn't see Biden, Putin or many others be willing to wait their turn and then take one of the most controversial vaccines, when they have the option to take whatever they want whenever they want.

Or to say it in another way: Merkel for once acted like she was meant to act.

[Mightysword]

Certainly wouldn't see Biden, Putin or many others be willing to wait their turn and then take one of the most controversial vaccines, when they have the option to take whatever they want whenever they want.

Eh I think most leaders I had seen did the same thing? I don't know how old Angela is and what is the phase roll out for Germany, but so far most leaders -not gonna say all because there is probably a few exception out there- did not cut the line, and just take the vaccine inline with whatever phase designate for their country. Remember most of them are fairly old, so they would fall into the first phase of the vaccination anyway whether they're politician or not, and Biden is "ancient". If anything, if he didn't take the vaccine early, the only example he would set is a stupid one.

As for taking the most controversial vaccines ... I think that's a Germany thing, the last few months there have been a lots of "noise" from Germany, so it makes sense Angela felt the need to do something there. There is no need for leaders of other countries to do something similar. Sure, if it's one thing if they outright deny a shot from a certain vaccine, but neither would it serve any purpose for them to go out of their way to take a controversial one. Germany thanks to their back and forth / conflicting announcements in the last few months need that, other countries don't.

I mean, in the US that whole "presidential" vaccine by all living presidents (minus Trump) were meant to set up an example too. The suspicion focus on a few specific vaccine now, but did you forget a few months ago there were a general suspicion on ALL vaccine? These guys took the first dose in part they are first in line anyway due to their age, but also to show the public they had nothing to fear.

[felter]

A few weeks ago I watched as India opened a new cricket ground with a capacity for around 100k spectators, and they did this by hosting a game of cricket with the English cricket team. They packed that stadium full with cricket fans, the majority of them not wearing any kind of face covering, all shouting and cheering. I said to my old dear, they are absolute idiots and will pay for it.

Move on to today and India are paying for their stupidity, as the country is now burning up with the virus. Some of their hospitals have run out of oxygen and the rest are on the verge of running out and are expected to do so in the next few hours. They have so many falling ill to the virus. their hospitals are reporting that they are over 99% full, with hundreds if not thousands outside trying to get their family members seen to, which never happens, as they run out of time.

I watched a video with them outside a hospital, shouting and screaming for help, surrounded by uncountable dead and dying and the interesting thing is, I don't have enough finger and toes to count the amount of people who were either not wearing a mask or had them around their chin. If they don't already have the virus, they most certainly soon will do and there will be no help for them, they are all but committing suicide.

And they are in denial, making claims of it wasn't the mass sporting gatherings or the mass religious gatherings or the lack of social distancing, it's because they weren't prepared for it. Where the hell have the been living for the past year and a bit, haven't they noticed that countries all around the world have been fighting against the exact same virus. And then to top it all off, of course with the virus spreading so much, it has an even greater chance of mutating and it has done so, they now have a particularly contagious variant that is spreading like wild fire and not just that, it is more damaging to the young while the current batch of vaccines are pretty much useless against it. Which means all the work the rest of the planet have been doing trying to vaccine as many people as possible in an attempt to stop the virus along comes the next variant that the vaccine doesn't work on and we are back to square one. All because we just weren't prepared for it.

My next prediction, in the next 3 weeks or so India will have hut over 10k deaths in a single day.

[mr.WHO]

My next prediction, in the next 3 weeks or so India will have hut over 10k deaths in a single day.

Make it triple - if they are running out of oxygen now, then how do you expect they magically make oxygen for 1-3 milion people in next 3 weeks?

As of today India is nearly 40% of all discovered global cases for al least 3 days. It's game over unless somehow whole global vacine production will go to India for next 2-3 weeks.

[red assassin]

And then to top it all off, of course with the virus spreading so much, it has an even greater chance of mutating and it has done so, they now have a particularly contagious variant that is spreading like wild fire and not just that, it is more damaging to the young while the current batch of vaccines are pretty much useless against it. Which means all the work the rest of the planet have been doing trying to vaccine as many people as possible in an attempt to stop the virus along comes the next variant that the vaccine doesn't work on and we are back to square one. All because we just weren't prepared for it.

Do you have any actual citations for any of that? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-56844925

[mr.WHO]

And then to top it all off, of course with the virus spreading so much, it has an even greater chance of mutating and it has done so, they now have a particularly contagious variant that is spreading like wild fire and not just that, it is more damaging to the young while the current batch of vaccines are pretty much useless against it. Which means all the work the rest of the planet have been doing trying to vaccine as many people as possible in an attempt to stop the virus along comes the next variant that the vaccine doesn't work on and we are back to square one. All because we just weren't prepared for it.

Do you have any actual citations for any of that? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-56844925

I wouldn't be fixated on this - viruses mutate whatever we do and it's mroe or less RNG flip. YOu can do the bilion flips and hit non-dangerous strain or do one flip and get next Spanish Flu.
I recall last week there was confirmation of a new strain in Lithuania, which both population wise and COVID wise is miniscule comparing to India.

The whole mutation danger thing has been blown out of proportion by media - so far vaccines are working on all known strains, but it there is a possibility that there is a strain combination that will be vacine resistant then it will appear sooner or later no matter what you do.

If anything, with mRNA vacinnes we are much better set to deal with any new strain if it pop-up. This is a sole good thing that came out of this COVID period.

[pjknibbs]

I think the main lesson to learn from India's example is the danger of complacency. They were doing among the best in the world for Covid just a couple of months ago, even to the point that their leaders had declared the pandemic effectively over there--which, of course, led to people stopping doing the precautions they *had* been doing and giving the virus free reign to spread. And as we see, it took just two months to flip to one of the worst infection rates worldwide. I think what this tells us is that masks and vaccinations are likely to be a fact of life for maybe years to come.

[BaronVerde]

And then to top it all off, of course with the virus spreading so much, it has an even greater chance of mutating and it has done so, they now have a particularly contagious variant that is spreading like wild fire and not just that, it is more damaging to the young while the current batch of vaccines are pretty much useless against it. Which means all the work the rest of the planet have been doing trying to vaccine as many people as possible in an attempt to stop the virus along comes the next variant that the vaccine doesn't work on and we are back to square one. All because we just weren't prepared for it.

Do you have any actual citations for any of that? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-56844925

Yeah, vaccines do not give the virus a chance to evolve, the contrary is the case and this has been shown so many times that insisting on the argument is close to following an agenda of denial. Same with the claim that vaccines are useless against variants, this is just as untrue, and there's nothing to deduct from that. It is the other way round, uncontained spread and lackluster vaccination stimulate genetic variations.

At this time there's only speculation why India is so struck with COVID, but crowded conditions, lack of vaccines, shortage of medical supplies (there isn't always a builder available, real life is not X4 ) complacency as said by @pjknibbs surely play a role. I read that Indias initial vaccination rollout was less than advertized and by far not enough and so the current problems are more of an outcome and not really a new wave. And now the politician scum blame virus variants to distract from their incompetence, just ignore it until more is really known.

[mr.WHO]

I've been vacinated with Johnson&Johnson today
also from today
Denmark resign from using Johnson&Johnson as not safe


hmmmmmmmm

[Alan Phipps]

Don't worry. I don't think there's a vaccine out there that some country hasn't said is unsafe for some class of recipient at some time or other. There may be some remote actual risk involved in certain circumstances, as with any effective vaccine/medicine, but that remote risk is almost always far outweighed by the risk of catching Covid and getting bad symptoms or passing it on as a result.

You should have been asked a series of questions before having the jab that would have been expressly intended to inform you if you were particularly at risk of side effects or unsuitable to receive it.

[mr.WHO]

Yeah, I feel safe.

I had some uncalm sleep overnight, but this could also be because because I overate before sleep .
Today I have light post-flu symptoms (I feel a bit weaker, light muscle pains), so I should be fully recovered by tomorrow.

I'd be more concerned if I had no response to vaccine, because aparently people who have zero reaction produce less anitbodies and have shorter and weaker inmunity from vacine.

Overall J&J has been deployed in Poland for over a week and we still don't have any cases for clotting.
Either Scandinavian countries are oversensitive, or somewhat their environment actually makes more clotting cases per population than average.


Edit:
A day later and now I feel back to normal. Weakness and light muscle pains are gone, so overall it was just a day of light flu-like symptoms after vaccination.

[ubuntufreakdragon]

Got my arm modernazised today.

Would have taken any approved vaccine besides any risks for a rare complication.
By my own calculation the chance to get a trombosis from Astra (not necessary dying) is as high as the chance to get infected and subsequently dying by the virus within 12 hours, at ~200incidence.
So an Astra today is better than a MRNA tomorrow.

[Chips]

Had the AstraZeneca jab. Barely felt it.

However, being me and weird, within 3 mins i felt dizzy and sick, 5 mins I was crouching down outside trying not to pass out, 45 mins later felt good enough to drive home. Basically i'm useless with blood or needles, so post jab I *think* blood pressure dropped and leaves me in a right state for zero reason.

Now aching in limbs, shivering, headache - uncomfortable fun. Apparently usually only lasts 24 hours if unfortunate enough to get the side effects. Looking forward to tomorrow night then!

[Alan Phipps]

That is why all the local area Covid vaccination centres I have been to (3 so far) ask recipients to sit and wait for 10-15 minutes after the jab so that any such adverse reactions can be detected and dealt with by qualified nurses and doctors. It's especially relevant if the recipient is about to drive. They cannot *make* you stay though, they can only advise and make the request.

Long ago, I had a friend in the Army who gave blood during a local appeal due to shortages of his particular blood group. He was asked to sit for 10 minutes and have a cup of tea afterwards but said he was fine and left straight after. On the way out of the building he felt faint and fell down the front steps splitting his forehead open. He had to have stitches and it was touch and go as to whether he would need any blood transfused in.

[BaronVerde]

Haven't had mine yet, but it's coming closer to the social stratum I'm in.

The last time I had to sit down was after being stung by 3 wasps. I accidentally discovered their nest during a cleanup under the roof and apparently they wanted to keep the secret by launching a well organized attack right into my face. Got stung in the eyebrow, cheek and jawbone. After a few minutes I had to sit and the world started to do what it normally does after too many ... nevermind. Later in the evening, when in the pub, they told me I looked like that goblin captain who commanded the army that attacked Gondor ...

Stay safe everybody

[Mightysword]

It's especially relevant if the recipient is about to drive. They cannot *make* you stay though, they can only advise and make the request.

The place I went to take mine have a holding area guided by police, with a full paramedic team on standby at the lot. Not sure if they can force you to stay, but I think the psychology effect of having a set up like that make me obligate to stay. I didn't see anyone run off right after the 2 times I was there.

[Axeface]

Getting my vaccine later in this week, most of the oldies have already been done here now too. Death are dropping fast but cases are still high, apparently one of the highest in the world per capita (uruguay). I dont get a choice of vaccine either, and the vast majority this country was able to get was sinovac. Joy, wonderful eh? Especially considering im english and perhaps would like to one day visit my country again. Still really, really annoyed about the whole hogging billions of vaccines thing.