PC advice please...

[greypanther]

Hi everybody, just dropped out of the shadows to pick the brains of far more tech savvy people than me. ( Vampire like... )

I know it has all been asked before, multiple times, indeed probably down to specifics, but I just do not have the time to search through the whole forum, ( so little spare time at the moment, odd as that may seem, ) so I thought I would cut to the chase, as some would maybe say.

I have finally decided it is time to upgrade to a new PC, this old thing is now getting to about ten years old and the i5 650, is at its limit, though it still plays all the games I want it to, along with the 1050ti. Now I have considered getting another desktop, after all it is going to be the best value for scarce money, but then I though that the versatility of a laptop would be nice, play anywhere and all that. I then looked at the gaming laptops that are easily available, which was a little scary considering the cost, the sky really is the limit.

Anyway, I was advised that the Alienware Area 51m was the best out there, ( ? ) so I looked at them. They start just short of £2000, which would be doable, as long as I did not add too much, but then I looked at other options and discovered an apparent oddness. I can get a similar gaming laptop with the same spec, for much cheaper, which made me wonder: Just what is it that makes these laptops so much better? Is it just that they are ( apparently ) easy to upgrade, or is there something else to consider?

I cannot go all the way to the top of the range gaming laptop, but something about the Area 51 appealed, get a lower spec version, then upgrade as and when I can, much as I have a desktop in the past. Can anyone enlighten me please regarding gaming laptops in general, the Alienware Area 51m in particular please? I mean just how portable are they really? I am told that none of them will allow playing away from a mains supply for long anyway, so is there a real point? Is real mobile gaming little more than an illusion?

Perhaps I should just give up on the thought of a mobile gaming platform and get another desktop, at least I know pretty much where I am then. Maybe get a little notebook to provide that little mobile fix too.

Thank you in anticipation.

[CBJ]

Problems with high-end gaming laptops:
- expensive for what you get (especially if you pay for a brand name)
- necessarily big (because you want a decent screen) and heavy (because you're cramming in gaming hardware)
- generally very noisy under load because cooling gaming hardware is hard work
- can't generally be upgraded

If you really want a gaming laptop in order to play on the road (in which case what are you doing on the road in times like these? ) then personally I'd go for something a little cheaper and accept that it will have some limitations. If you want it primarily as a desktop replacement and won't really spend that much time away from the desk, then save yourself some money and get a desktop that has a better spec, and will give you the option to upgrade a bit if you want to. Just my opinion, though. YMMV.

[burger1]

Laptops can have heat problems also. Meaning thermal throttling/reduced performance etc...

You would need a new cpu + mainboard + ram (?) to upgade your current system. Power supply = ? depending on the connectors and adapters available. The 3000 series nvidia cards might come out at some point this year or early next year? If your system still does what you want maybe wait? Might be about $1250 usd or less.

[pjknibbs]

Alienware laptops (and desktops for that matter) are famously expensive--you're largely paying for the brand name, since they are *the* go-to gaming machines. Have no personal experience if the build quality matches up to the branding and the looks. I would also agree with CBJ--unless you really have a good reason to want to game on the move, a decent gaming desktop will run a lot cheaper than a decent gaming laptop. Heck, you could probably afford a good gaming desktop and a low-end gaming laptop for playing stuff that's a few years old, it'll still come to less than a single laptop that will play modern games, and the laptop will probably be lighter and have better battery life than the full-on gaming rig as well!

[Mightysword]

I have to echo what CPJ said there, the list he described is exactly my experience with my "gaming" laptop many years ago when I got one. It may sound like a good idea at first but it's one of the worst purchase I ever made in life.

I think you should only entertain the idea of getting a real gaming laptop if:

- You plan to replace your desktop altogether and use it as a one stop for all.
- You will spend significant time off road with it than at home with a PC.

And even with those justifications, know that you will spend a lot more while getting less comparing to PC. If neither of those cases apply to you I would recommend just get an average laptop that can run the games you want to play decently in your down time instead of for the sake of experiencing peak gaming. And I can't stress enough about how inconvenience the hard-to-ugrade things is. If you start off with a decent PC, changes are all of your hardwares won't be 'obsoleted' at the same time over the years, and you can just easily upgrade whatever part is the bottleneck for your next game. Laptop is a one time package deal that deprive that convenience.

[burger1]

There's also Geforce Now if you are in a region with high speed internet and high data caps. Low end pcs can play high end games. The free version is limited to 1 hour sessions but you can do as many sessions as you want per day. Might need 5-15 gb per hour of internet data to play. Gameplay seems to be mostly dependent on the internet connection. Not all games are supported.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/system-reqs/

WINDOWS PC
A 64-bit version of Windows 7, or newer, is required. Please note we do not support 32-bit versions of Windows.

INTERNET REQUIREMENTS
GeForce NOW requires at least 15Mbps for 720p at 60fps and 25 Mbps for 1080p at 60fps.
You’ll need to use a hardwired Ethernet connection or 5GHz wireless router

PC HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS
Dual core x86-64 CPU with 2.0GHz or faster
4GB of system memory
GPU that at least supports DirectX 11
NVIDIA GeForce 600 series or newer
If you are using a GTX 800m series, please read this Knowledge base article http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4633
AMD Radeon HD 3000 series or newer
Intel HD Graphics 2000 series or newer

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

How much mobility do you really need? Obviously a laptop will be the easiest to move around but a smaller form factor tower could be a good middleground between size/portability and performance/cost.
Example custom built mini-ITX from PC Specialist for just under your £2000 budget:
Ryzen 3600
Nvidia 2080 Super
1TB SSD, secondary 4TB HDD
~24"1080p, 75Hz monitor with freesync, Keyboard and mouse included in price (of course you can remove these if you want to keep what you already have and save ~£200)

In a case like this:


Link to site: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/computer ... ff-gaming/
Doesn't seem to be a way to share the full configuration but you get the jist of it from above.

[greypanther]

If you really want a gaming laptop in order to play on the road (in which case what are you doing on the road in times like these? )

Well if I was going to go for an Alienware laptop, I would be looking at quite a wait for delivery, so hopefully it would come after lockdown. I am also trying to be optimistic, which I have to be honest, is somewhat hard at the moment, nothing to do with Covid 19. I guess that is part of the issue for me: I want something good/ top of the range for once! However you are right, just how much will it be used on the road? I will have to reconsider that... As for the upgrading option, I was going on the information given to me by someone who has had a top end Alienware, for over four years and he claims that these laptops are an exception and that they can be quite easily upgraded, outside of a specialist workshop. I just do not know, other than to think that upgrading a laptop is not easy.

@ burger1: I had considered upgrading the current PC, but as much will have to be replaced, it seemed logical, ( and just plain nice! ) to get a whole new rig.

@pjknibbs: Very good points, especially if I considered the small form desktop, as suggested by Stars.

@ Mightysword: Your points are mainly what has made me hesitate, I would rather not get something expensive which I will only come to regret.

@ Stars: Thank you for the link.

I will have to think some more on this, just a shame no one has first hand experience of the Alienware brand.

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

Oh I have some experience with Alienware, but we're talking about 7 years ago, before I built my own PCs, so I doubt its relevant. Though it would seem that its still the case that you do pay a premium for Alienware.

[greypanther]

Oh I have some experience with Alienware, but we're talking about 7 years ago, before I built my own PCs, so I doubt its relevant. Though it would seem that its still the case that you do pay a premium for Alienware.

But where they user upgradeable back then? That is a key point for me.

[Tycow]

No experience with Alienware, but I have both a self built gaming PC and a gaming laptop, and the gaming laptop has become my main gaming / use PC. I travel a lot with work and wanted a gaming machine for playing whilst I'm away from home and swear by them. Even when I'm home, I can sit on the settee next to Mrs Tycow and play games whilst she's watching guff TV. Only downside is it can get a bit noisy, but a laptop cooling pad helps.

I've got a Medion Erazer X6805:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Medion-Er ... 681.0.html

Specs are as follows:
Medion Erazer X6805-MD61085
Processor: Intel Core i7-8750H (Intel Core i7)
Graphics adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 Mobile - 6144 MB, Core: 1405 MHz, Memory: 8000 MHz, GDDR5
Memory: 16384 MB 2 x 8 GB SO-DIMM DDR4-2666, dual channel, (expandable up to 32 GB)
Display: 15.6 inch 16:9, 1920 x 1080 pixel 141 PPI, LG Philips LP156WF6 (LGD046F), IPS, Full-HD, 60 Hz, glossy: no
Mainboard: Intel HM370
Storage: Samsung PM961 MZVLW256HEHP, 256 GB NVMe SSD + Seagate Barracuda ST1000LM048, 1 TB HDD, 5400 RPM. 2 x M.2 2280 & 1 x 2.5-inch drive bay
Weight: 2.548 kg ( = 89.88 oz / 5.62 pounds), Power Supply: 416 g ( = 14.67 oz / 0.92 pounds)

I paid £1000 for this one.

I've upgraded mine to have a 1TB SSD and a 512GB M2 SSD, and it FLIIIIIIIIIIIES. Gaming performance is excellent - yes, it won't play some games on ultra settings without dropping below 40FPS, but I don't mind that.

The downsides are heat management (noisy as I said) when they're playing taxing games, and if they go wrong, they can go wrong spectacularly and there's not a lot you can do to fix them (unless it's a removable component). I've had two now (one packed in after four years) and would not go back.

Would thoroughly recommend looking at PCSpecialist laptops too.

[CBJ]

I just had a look on the Dell site at the specific machine you're looking at. That £2000 base price only includes 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD with no data drive, and you're looking at about another £200 to upgrade those elements alone to something a bit more sensible, before you even start thinking about nice-to-haves. The desktop-level graphics card is a nice idea but will run hot and loud in a laptop case, even one as bulky as the Alienware! A similarly-specified desktop would probably be about half that price, though obviously you'd have to add a monitor or use one you already have.

Regarding the upgradability, you can sometimes install an extra memory stick or hard drive in a laptop fairly easily, but I'd be surprised if you were able to upgrade the CPU or GPU after purchase without special equipment. Having watched a Dell engineer dismantle and rebuild a laptop on my kitchen table once, I most definitely wouldn't want to tackle that job myself!

Don't get me wrong; if I was splashing out on a high-end gaming laptop, I'd probably go for either an Alienware or something from MSI, but I'd need a really compelling reason to be buying a laptop rather than a desktop at this level because of the downsides.

[exogenesis]

I can give the thumbs-up for Area-51m, if you've got the money

I ended up with an Area-51m for work, I was told I had to have a laptop, but I didn't want to lose the power of a workstation
(which is what this laptop basically is - a workstation in laptop form, my spec = i9 9900K, RTX 2070, 32GB ram, 1TB SSD, £3000).
I'm unexpectedly very impressed with it, there's no processing-power-downside due to it being a laptop.

It's very good for everything, & although it's quite heavy, it's not that bad
(but you'd have to have a pretty good reason to lug it more than a mile, what with the two power supplies).

Trouble is I find the 17.3" screen a bit small, being used to 24+" workstation monitors,
but much much better than say a 14 or 15" screen (unusable for me)
- seems to be as big as laptop screens get, but I normally run it with two further 24" monitors anyway.

I think the trouble with this type of laptop is when you push them hard - i.e. the heat dissipation problem.

Area-51m seems very well designed for this, but you certainly can't have it on your lap (or any soft surface),
due to blocking the air intakes underneath.

I've only had it overheat if I push it on preset 'overclock 2' (5.2GHz max),
but I usually run at 'overclock 1' 4.5/5.0 GHz for reliability (& longevity),
and Dell do supply it with great simple software options for overclocking & user-set fan speeds.
(& pretty lighting settings - however keyboard is very good quality, & having it user-definably backlit is great).

Up to now I've never considered a laptop for home use (prefer workstations),
but this has got me thinking I might...
I really should replace my 9 year old i7-2700 'monster case' PC at some point...

Battery life is quite short though, even with it's bigger-than-most battery, I reckon you'd get 1 to 1.5 hours at most (gaming),
not sure how that figures into how you'd use it - most of the time I have it plugged in.

Another good thing is the upgradability, 6 small screws & you can get at almost everything,
I added another SSD in minutes, memory slots are all accessable, & CPU is easy to get to.

However the graphic card is OEM design (U-shaped board)
- it is a full RTX GPU, & you can upgrade say a RTX2070 to a 2080,
but I wonder if future generations will be supported.

Upgrading the CPU is supposedly quite easy, plenty of walk-throughs on YouTube etc,
but again future generation CPUs are likely to need a different motherboard anyway ?

Don't think you can get a better quality (& I think relatively good value for money) laptop,
but if a cheaper lesser beast fits better, there's plenty of choice.

btw the Dell website seems to be quite variable on pricing, this one was with a '£500 discount insta-coupon',
& I've seen some significantly different prices depending seemingly on the day you look.

[pjknibbs]

Processor: Intel Core i7-8750H (Intel Core i7)
Graphics adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 Mobile - 6144 MB, Core: 1405 MHz, Memory: 8000 MHz, GDDR5

His current desktop rig is apparently a Core i5-650 with a GeForce 1050Ti graphics card, so that laptop would be around 50% faster on GPU and 50% faster per core on CPU (although the i7 has more threads, so would be much faster on multithreaded loads). I'm not convinced that would be enough of an upgrade to make it worthwhile when he's been using his current machine for nearly a decade--I know if I'd been using the same PC for that length of time that I'd want something much more substantive as an upgrade.

[Tycow]

Processor: Intel Core i7-8750H (Intel Core i7)
Graphics adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 Mobile - 6144 MB, Core: 1405 MHz, Memory: 8000 MHz, GDDR5

His current desktop rig is apparently a Core i5-650 with a GeForce 1050Ti graphics card, so that laptop would be around 50% faster on GPU and 50% faster per core on CPU (although the i7 has more threads, so would be much faster on multithreaded loads). I'm not convinced that would be enough of an upgrade to make it worthwhile when he's been using his current machine for nearly a decade--I know if I'd been using the same PC for that length of time that I'd want something much more substantive as an upgrade.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting he buy this one, or one similar to it.I was just detailing it as an example.

[Santi]

Battery life is quite short though, even with it's bigger-than-most battery, I reckon you'd get 1 to 1.5 hours at most (gaming),
not sure how that figures into how you'd use it - most of the time I have it plugged in

That is the crux of it, mobility on a gaming laptop depends on finding a power socket, and you will get overheating problems with long gaming sessions. And a laptop for gaming will never substitute a desktop in terms of performance.

Going from a desktop to a laptop is a no in my opinion. Get a proper desktop and then, a cheap laptop that can play plenty of classic games.

[greypanther]

I know if I'd been using the same PC for that length of time that I'd want something much more substantive as an upgrade.

Just so.

Though Tycow's post earlier was very useful as it made me realise something. Tycow says they travel a lot so need that portability to game, to be honest I do not travel enough to justify the extra expense. This is reinforced by what many of you say, especially exogenesis, who even though they give a rave review, their comments about the lack of battery power for gaming and the weight, kills off the thought of getting a gaming laptop. I think I need to rethink my needs, rather than just what I want.

One of the main reasons I thought I needed a laptop, was to reduce the space taken up on my desk, which of course Stars suggestion of a small form desktop PC would help, a compromise maybe. With a cheap laptop for limited mobile as is suggested above.

Now a question about that sort of thing please, if someone could help: Is there any more consideration needed for the small form case, regarding cooling? I certainly imagine so. Also could I still get that boost in performance as I see that some GPU in particular are huge!

Thank you for all the help so far, I do not doubt I will have more questions soon...

[CBJ]

Small format PCs are nice, but as you say they do come with compromises when it comes to cooling. I used a Shuttle as my main PC for a few years, and I really liked it (so much so that I still have it by my desk in fact, even though it's decomissioned). I was able to fit a decent desktop CPU and GPU (for the time) in it, and I never had any problems with overheating because their designs are pretty good on that score, though it could get quite noisy under load. That was really the only significant downside though, so as long as you don't mind your PC sounding like Concorde taking off when you're playing a game then you'll be fine! With regard to upgrades, the Shuttle case was compact but large enough to work on if you wanted to upgrade or replace something, and most of the parts were standard PC parts apart from the motherboard. There are plenty of other similar designs available, but for your purposes I'd avoid the really small form factor PCs, which tend to use laptop parts and don't generally have the scope for upgrade.

[pjknibbs]

My only experience with small form factor PCs was from years (must be a decade or more) ago, when I deliberately built a PC in as small a case as I could get just for gits and shiggles. IIRC it was a 900MHz Celeron CPU I used, which dates it somewhat! I have heard good things about the Shuttle cases, though--they're generally set up so you can install a full-size graphics card, but generally that's the *only* expansion card you can fit; not an issue these days when most other I/O is built into the motherboard, unless you planned to fit a SCSI card or something like that.

[jlehtone]

Ergonomics of a laptop is not good. Serious laptop users have separate monitor(s), keyboard, mouse, etc.
A docking station (used to have proprietary connector, now USB) makes connecting the peripherals easier.
That does not save space on table. Probably the opposite.

Shuttle is a known brand of small cases, but there are a lot of options on mATX and ITX form factors.

The computer does not have to be on the table. Under (on floor or hanging), behind, on the side of table. Out of sight can improve the "Concorde tuning" too.