Upgrade or new rig?

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jlehtone
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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 29. May 20, 17:34

Alan Phipps wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 12:56
Does changing cpu *technically* require a new licence/copy of Windows 10 nowadays? I have often wondered even though I have seen posts that some people have sweet-talked MIcrosoft support into allowing a re-use of existing licence.
Doesn't it depend on the type of license too?
Retail should be transferable to different machine*, while OEM is not.
Furthermore, there are limits on RAM and core count. Win 10 Home is limited to 64 cores?
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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by euclid » Fri, 29. May 20, 17:49

Alan Phipps wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 12:56
Does changing cpu *technically* require a new licence/copy of Windows 10 nowadays? I have often wondered even though I have seen posts that some people have sweet-talked MIcrosoft support into allowing a re-use of existing licence.
Thanks Alan for pointing that out. I've checked and it seems that you only need to link your rig to a MS account (which I did). Then, after a major hardware change, just use the linked account to re-activate W10.

And thanks to all for the feedback. I will go for a new rig, probably salavage a few parts from the current one.

Cheers Euclid
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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by Masterbagger » Sat, 30. May 20, 03:44

pjknibbs wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 07:45
I just did a comparison of the i5-2400 and the i7-2700k at cpu.userbenchmark.com, and frankly, I don't think that upgrade is worth it--it's barely any faster unless you have a load that will actually fully utilise the 8 virtual cores of the i7, and even then it's only about 60% quicker. Even a relatively cheap modern CPU like the Ryzen 3600 is far more of a substantial upgrade, because it's 60% faster per core and *way* faster if you get more cores involved:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... /803vs1985
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... /803vs4040

So, if you're going to upgrade at all, I would go for the full motherboard/CPU/RAM swap. You don't necessarily need to also upgrade the PSU, unless you're putting a monster graphics card in there--700W seems adequate.
I had that CPU, or a similar I7. Don't know now because my old PC was fully functional and I gave it away to elevate a console peasant to a better world. My thoughts were that that hardware is going to bottleneck if not at the CPU then somewhere else and it did. For me that was load times. The nvme hard drive is the best thing since SSD drives came out years ago. I don't like loading screens. My philosophy with something I use as much as a computer is to pay for it once and endure the wallet pain once. Trying to keep an old system limping along is depriving yourself of new hardware that it can't support. My advice is not to go half ass here and build something that will need an upgrade in a year or two. Go nuts. It's only money. I am totally on board with AMD for cpu and nvidia for video card. If It were me and I could not get everything I wanted in a single day I would plan my build with hardware that would support what I wanted so I could add it later.

Did I mention that g-sync works? Nvidia isn't paying me to say that either. Compatibility between monitor and video card is a thing now.
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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by birdtable » Sat, 30. May 20, 09:04

euclid said .. "probably salavage a few parts from the current one". Spoken tenderly while reassuring a distressed wallet.

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by burger1 » Mon, 1. Jun 20, 17:08

Not sure how high prices are currently inflated but there might eventually be a shortage of parts?

There's still stufff available but some is out of stock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0whCHfejM18

am4 mainboards

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007625 ... 786%204017

berth
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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by berth » Mon, 1. Jun 20, 22:40

INot intended to hijack the thread but, fwiw, I just ordered this: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/xy3q27

My current PC (i5-2500k, gtx 970) is showing its age and has been doing the odd random crash-reboot loop recently, seemingly gpu related, so I figured it was time to start afresh.
I am fortunate enough to have been working through most of the lockdown which has resulted in earning without much spending.

I'll let you know how I get on, if you like :)

New rig gets my vote :thumb_up:

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by Gavrushka » Tue, 2. Jun 20, 10:34

berth wrote:
Mon, 1. Jun 20, 22:40
INot intended to hijack the thread but, fwiw, I just ordered this: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/xy3q27

My current PC (i5-2500k, gtx 970) is showing its age and has been doing the odd random crash-reboot loop recently, seemingly gpu related, so I figured it was time to start afresh.
I am fortunate enough to have been working through most of the lockdown which has resulted in earning without much spending.

I'll let you know how I get on, if you like :)

New rig gets my vote :thumb_up:
That's a great site. - I'm buying from Palicomp after I've finished house and garden renovations, and will check over my spec on there. - I've had a history of PSUs failing, so I'm paranoid about that element. My current PC (an I7 8700) is going to my 82 year old mum so she can play Doom, and other violent FPS games... :|
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by exogenesis » Tue, 2. Jun 20, 19:38

Those Noctua NH-D15 air coolers are huge,
I've got one & it just fits in the width, and around & over the components (like memory - without cooler vanes),
in a (ridiculously large)-tower case
Hope it fits OK in the mid-tower case...

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 2. Jun 20, 21:36

Fractal is relatively wide.

Noctua says: 165 mm
Fractal claims: CPU cooler max height 185 mm
(BTW, there is a bit more expensive version of R6 with USB-C on the front panel.)

The Vengeance does not seem to have overly tall heatsink, so it won't force the fan much upwards.

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by berth » Wed, 3. Jun 20, 20:34

The Noctua should fit ok - I've got an older model in my current case which is a Define R3. But, yes, they are huge. The RAM is low profile so that should be ok.

Also, afaik, PCPartpicker's thing is that it will check all the various components you select for compatibility. I assume that includes clearance :)

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by burger1 » Sun, 14. Jun 20, 18:33

Just an fyi turn off automatic bios updates or you might end up with a pc that doesn't boot up.

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by euclid » Tue, 16. Jun 20, 03:25

burger1 wrote:
Mon, 1. Jun 20, 17:08
Not sure how high prices are currently inflated but there might eventually be a shortage of parts?

There's still stufff available but some is out of stock.
...................
It seems you hit the nail here. I'm in negociations with several suppliers. They have all said that the price on CPU and GPU are likely to sky rocket very soon. It is due to the production and distribution issues related to Covid-19 and because there are new consoles on the horizon demanding high numbers of chips. Some other parts (like the AX850 PSU) have rather long lead times.

Cheers Euclid
"In any special doctrine of nature there can be only as much proper science as there is mathematics therein.”
- Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), Metaphysical Foundations of the Science of Nature, 4:470, 1786

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by euclid » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 11:34

This is what I have gathered so far:

MoBo Aorus 570 Ultral
CPU Ryzen 390X
GFX Radeon VII
PSU 1KW Titanium
RAM 32GB RGB Pro 3200
CPU Cooler Assassin III
2x 500GB SSD

I'll keep 2TB HDD and a 500GB HDD from my current rig. Yet unclear is the case: It seems there is a problem with the clearance between the RAM and the CPU cooler. Also there seems to be no bay to house an internal dvd drive so I'm thinking of getting an external usb one. Advise is appreciated.

Cheers Euclid
"In any special doctrine of nature there can be only as much proper science as there is mathematics therein.”
- Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), Metaphysical Foundations of the Science of Nature, 4:470, 1786

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 12:38

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MF ... UTF8&psc=1

I've got this one and I'm loving it. nice clean build, plenty of clearance for just about anything. dust filters are easy to pull out and clean as well. Also, all of the USB ports are USB3.
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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by berth » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 13:59

Re DVD drive, I got one of these but I haven't actually used it yet.

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 14:57

euclid wrote:
Sat, 27. Jun 20, 11:34
Yet unclear is the case: It seems there is a problem with the clearance between the RAM and the CPU cooler.
Also there seems to be no bay to house an internal dvd drive so I'm thinking of getting an external usb one.
What are your case options?

* All RAM models do not have tall RGB. Are lights a must?
* The fans on the cooler can be moved "up". That should suffice, unless the tower itself is on top of the RAM slot.
Of course, then the fan approaches the wall of the case.
* There are still cases with 5.25" slots, but if DVD is used seldom, then it does not have to be in the case.


What is the expected power draw of those components, idle and loaded? To me 1 kW sounds a lot.
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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by burger1 » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 15:29

https://youtu.be/UMpnFPJiZ7M?t=444

The more common problem these days seems to be there's front case fans but the front is blocked off so they can't actually pull much air or in some cases no air (mounted directly onto a metal plate). You'll probably want top exhaust fans also if you want better air cooling since hot air rises. Graphics cards run cooler these days usually but there might be no fans providing cool air to them. I think noisier high air flow (haf) cases aren't common any more?

Another common complaint seems like tempered glass vs tinted plastic side panels. Apparently the plastic gets scratched up quite often and then looks bad. Large price difference I think.

If you are using rgb make sure the headers on the mainboard can take the voltage/current or it might be the end of the mainboard. Not all rgb strips and stuff are the same. I think phantek might have proprietary stuff.

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by pjknibbs » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 17:05

This is the case I got when I upgraded last year:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1

I got this one because it (a) claimed to be built for quiet and (b) doesn't have pointless and irrelevant glass panels on it. Having used it for a year now I think it definitely fulfils the quiet claim, and it was nice and easy to build in too. No DVD drive, so I have this external one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1

I've used this several times with my laptop, never had to use it on the desktop machine yet. Works fine.

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by euclid » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 19:43

jlehtone wrote:
Sat, 27. Jun 20, 14:57
.....
* All RAM models do not have tall RGB. Are lights a must?
.....
Thanks Kitten :-) And no, I don't need any fancy lights but this particular RAM does not come without. Will check alternatives, maybe even go for a water cooler instead of air.
What is the expected power draw of those components, idle and loaded? To me 1 kW sounds a lot.
Quite right! Partpicker estimates the power requirements around 600W, not taken into account the external dvd and the 2 HDDs from my current rig. I've checked and a 700-750W psu will save about £30. Checking the availability now.
pjknibbs wrote:
Sat, 27. Jun 20, 17:05
This is the case I got when I upgraded last year:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1

I got this one because it (a) claimed to be built for quiet and (b) doesn't have pointless and irrelevant glass panels on it. Having used it for a year now I think it definitely fulfils the quiet claim, and it was nice and easy to build in too. No DVD drive, so I have this external one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1

I've used this several times with my laptop, never had to use it on the desktop machine yet. Works fine.
Thanks Paul :-) The case is a silent runner but I think it might lack airflow (no front fans) and dust filters. The external dvd looks good; will consider that one.
burger1 wrote:
Sat, 27. Jun 20, 15:29
............
The more common problem these days seems to be there's front case fans but the front is blocked off so they can't actually pull much air or in some cases no air (mounted directly onto a metal plate). You'll probably want top exhaust fans also if you want better air cooling since hot air rises. Graphics cards run cooler these days usually but there might be no fans providing cool air to them. I think noisier high air flow (haf) cases aren't common any more?
............
Yes, decent air flow, fans and dust filters are more important to me than noise reduction. However, now I am considering a water cooler (for the CPU) rather than the noisier air cooler. Thanks for the input, appreciated.
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 27. Jun 20, 12:38
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MF ... UTF8&psc=1

I've got this one and I'm loving it. nice clean build, plenty of clearance for just about anything. dust filters are easy to pull out and clean as well. Also, all of the USB ports are USB3.
Thanks but that is quite a humongous case and won't fit on the shelf mounted to the wall of my "mancave".

Cheers Euclid
"In any special doctrine of nature there can be only as much proper science as there is mathematics therein.”
- Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), Metaphysical Foundations of the Science of Nature, 4:470, 1786

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Re: Upgrade or new rig?

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 20:47

euclid wrote:
Sat, 27. Jun 20, 19:43
Thanks but that is quite a humongous case and won't fit on the shelf mounted to the wall of my "mancave".
What are the max dimensions that would fit on it?

Liquid cooler has a pump and fans on radiator. I'm not sure how those are more quiet than fans on airtower.

Google points to "Corsair Vengeance" RGB PRO. There is also Vengeance LPX with seemingly same specs, but less tall.
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