The military police

[fiksal]

I think it's deserving its own thread. I couldn't think of a title for a bit.... riots? ... hm, nope... protests? ... that's not it... and then the Russian word came to mind "Карательная мера", a repression. But lets go with the source - the military police. - The thing that must not exist in US according to its own laws and rules.


Yes we all know whose order they are acting on, we know their allegiance, it's not the flag, but still, lets pause and read.

This is military response to civilians. In Russia, this kinda stuff sparked 1 revolution and 1 forceful change of government. But in US, it's just normal.


https://apnews.com/4c521336d47c25d76d18000a3ea04511

“They came out in this phalanx, running, and then they plowed into a bunch of protesters in the intersection of the street and knocked them over. They came out to fight,” David said. One officer pointed a semi-automatic weapon at David’s chest, he said, and video shows another shoving him backwards as he tried to talk with the officers.

“I took a couple steps back, straightened up, and then just stood my ground right there, arms down by my side,” David recalled.

One officer began whacking at David with the baton. When he doesn’t fall or even flinch, another officer sprays him full in the face. David then retreats a few steps while making an obscene gesture.

“They are thugs and goons,” David said. “I couldn’t recognize anything tactically that they were attempting to do that was even remotely related to crowd control. It looked to me like a gang of guys with sticks.”

[Vertigo 7]

Trump has gotten around that by using CIA, border patrol, and the US marshals to create his federal anti-BLM police force. The US military has 0 arrest authority over civilians, they can only arrest active military service members which is part of the reason the UCMJ exists. Civilians detained on DOD installations are handed over to civilian police before they are formally arrested.

But yeah, this is absolutely sickening. I don't know what his end game could be unless he's hoping for a coup attempt so he can declare martial law.

[fiksal]

How can they even detain anyone? They have jurisdiction?

[matthewfarmery]

The way I see it, Trumps wanting absolute power, and will not let anything get in the way. He admires powerful men, men like Putin and Kim Jong-un. But right now, he is scared of prison more then anything. So if on November, things do go south for him, he can call upon the secret police to keep order, and for him to declare martial law. So in effect, bypassing congress. With those blind fools that follow him still, he will be untouchable.

He wants power, and will stop at nothing to keep it. That is his end game.

Also, as the Lincoln add I posted in the Trump thread shows, This is where it starts, the end of democracy and the start of a dictatorship. But yes, the secret police is totally wrong, and that congress wont put a stop to this either, is also shocking. There is still time to deal with this mad man, but their refusal to act, is also telling. Sadly, I see things getting worse, especailly closer too November. Expect more of this, and more brutal as well.

[Vertigo 7]

The problem is that Trump is within his legal authority to do shit like this with the DoJ. He is right up on that line without actually crossing it. Congress can do little in this regard as the DoJ is firmly under the purview of the executive branch. The states, however, have policing jurisdiction and can fight back against the federal policing actions. The Oregon governor has already ordered the federal police forces out of the state and they could ultimately be arrested themselves. The governors could also order in the national guard to defend the protesters as the national guard is under direct command of the governors, with the exception of DC national guard being under the command of the president. However, those escalations could also create a massive shit storm.

[matthewfarmery]

The problem is that Trump is within his legal authority to do shit like this with the DoJ. He is right up on that line without actually crossing it. Congress can do little in this regard as the DoJ is firmly under the purview of the executive branch. The states, however, have policing jurisdiction and can fight back against the federal policing actions. The Oregon governor has already ordered the federal police forces out of the state and they could ultimately be arrested themselves. The governors could also order in the national guard to defend the protesters as the national guard is under direct command of the governors, with the exception of DC national guard being under the command of the president. However, those escalations could also create a massive shit storm.

Give it up to November, and we may very well see that shit storm. As things get worse, we will see things get more and more serious. Worst case, another civil war, I sadly think that might happen. With Trump doing all that he can to keep in power, he will use whatever loophole is available to him. Democracy is in the gutter, whichever way you try and spin it.

[Vertigo 7]

Give it up to November, and we may very well see that shit storm. As things get worse, we will see things get more and more serious. Worst case, another civil war, I sadly think that might happen. With Trump doing all that he can to keep in power, he will use whatever loophole is available to him. Democracy is in the gutter, whichever way you try and spin it.

Trump may indeed want a civil war but the joint chiefs will never go along with bringing the military forces to bear against the public and any order to do so from Trump would be an illegal order. You don't become a 4 star general or admiral without understanding the awesome responsibility those positions demand or truly understanding and believing the sworn oath to the constitution they took; they aren't elected and aren't promoted for passing out tee-shirts and red hats and spouting catch phrases. Just using less than lethal force to clear out Lafayette Square for Trump's photo op put a seriously bad taste in their mouth and General Milley damn near resigned. But an actual civil war involving bombing civilians, sending in strike teams like they're looking for ISIS terrorists into people's homes, no...

Sad thing is, he said he didn't need to bomb North Korea or Iran or whoever, that he was the best negotiator in the world. He hasn't even tried negotiating with his own damn people.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

I heard, even when released (because they did nothing), the people who gets taken by the Yankee Gestapo is charged with some sort of felony, invalidating their voting rights. Is it true?

Yankee Gestapo suits too well this kind of uniformless police...

[Vertigo 7]

No. People have to be convicted and without a trial, charges are meaningless.

[RegisterMe]

Trump has gotten around that by using CIA, border patrol, and the US marshals to create his federal anti-BLM police force.

No argument re Border Patrol, US Marshals, prison officers etc, but the CIA? I thought it was actually illegal for the CIA to operate on US soil and / or against US citizens?

[Vertigo 7]

Trump has gotten around that by using CIA, border patrol, and the US marshals to create his federal anti-BLM police force.

No argument re Border Patrol, US Marshals, prison officers etc, but the CIA? I thought it was actually illegal for the CIA to operate on US soil and / or against US citizens?

There was big todo about the CIA involvement with the mix of federal police a few weeks ago. People photographed vehicles simply marked "police" around the protest areas and they were traced back to the CIA. There's even been use of surveillance drones. I know it's a common TV trope that the CIA can't operate on US soil, but there's nothing stopping the CIA from participating in joint missions with other federal agencies.

I'll see if I can find that article again. I may have linked it in the Trump thread.

[Vertigo 7]

@registerme - this isn't the same article I read but nonetheless

Then there are the officers who can be spotted across Northern Virginia in white marked patrol vehicles labeled only as “United States Police,” the purposefully vague public name given to what is formally known as the CIA’s Security Protective Services, who provide security to the CIA and the Office of Director of National Intelligence. They carry weapons, but have limited law enforcement authority. (As one agent told me, only half-joking, “We can’t arrest you, but we can kill you.”)

[clakclak]

The next cities that may get federal forces according to Trump will be: New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland (CA).

So how do you think that will be going down if the plans are set in motion? Will there be demonstrations against the federal units?

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Fellow American friends, this is literally how nazis in Germany and fascists in Italy behaved at their very beginning: taking "random" people from their homes or from the streets for "public safety".

[Olterin]

This is also how the KGB acted in the Soviet Union to bully people into submission, well almost - they drove up to your homes at night in unmarked but clearly unmistakable cars and took you off, to possibly (probably) never be seen again. Stop this, learn from history, don't be another Germany in 1930s or another Soviet Union!
(I really hope this just looks worse than it is, the alternative is not particularly acceptable)

Any chance of this not ending in a massive shitstorm (either for the US, or for the rest of the world)?

[Vertigo 7]

The next cities that may get federal forces according to Trump will be: New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland (CA).

So how do you think that will be going down if the plans are set in motion? Will there be demonstrations against the federal units?

I dunno man. If that was me, I'd fight back. I wouldn't let Trump or his gestapo thugs intimidate me. And the thing is, Americans aren't that easily intimidated by these Hitleresque type of dictators. Someone is going to get pushed over the edge, though, and toss a pipe bomb at the formation of cops. And Trump is practically daring them to do it. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump ends up catching a bullet in his forehead before November comes around. All I know is that Trump is going to keep pushing people into a corner and they will strike back.

[clakclak]

I dunno man. If that was me, I'd fight back. I wouldn't let Trump or his gestapo thugs intimidate me. And the thing is, Americans aren't that easily intimidated by these Hitleresque type of dictators. Someone is going to get pushed over the edge, though, and toss a pipe bomb at the formation of cops. And Trump is practically daring them to do it. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump ends up catching a bullet in his forehead before November comes around. All I know is that Trump is going to keep pushing people into a corner and they will strike back.

I mean that sounds like an actually well thought out plan.

Step 1: Push people until someone breaks and does something really stupid.
Step 2: Declare protestors as terrorist (he already tried that with the Antifa, but realised he does not yet have the support he needs so he needs to keep pushing more).
Step 3: Stop all protests you do not like under the guise of fighting terrorism, while encouraging your supporters to take to the street guarded by the police.
Step 4: Have a massive public unrest due to your previous actions.
Step 4.5: Blame it on the protestors aka the terrorists.
Step 5: Declare martial law and postpone the elections until you regain control.
Step 5.5: Never regain control.
Step 6: Profit.

[matthewfarmery]

And if the public do decide to strike back, that would be a civil war of sorts. Trump's military might not even be answerable to a 4 star general. right now, they seem to be following Trump's orders. So we could have the senate / main military / civilians on one side. And Trump and his own secret police / military on the other. Trump isn't going to walk quietly into the night. This could very well be like the British Civil wars 22 Aug 1642 – 3 Sep 1651. After that, kings and queens have no real power anymore, just figure heads.

It might be that if Trump does lose, then a single president might have to be reformed, and the senate should have greater powers on dealing with him or her. But that also means, that the senate also needs reform. But if Trump wins, bye, bye democracy for sure.

But whichever way you slice this, even if, Trump has the legal power to use his own private army. (I suspect this is what Trump will turn it into if it not like this already) he is still morally wrong by taking this step. And with everything else happening, I can see a lot of things going south real quick.

[Vertigo 7]

Even some of the republican senators, like Rand Paul, are trying to get Trump to pump the breaks. The people have a constitutional right to protest.

All of those 2nd amendment jackholes love to tough guy preach how they own a gun cuz they don't trust the government and they "need" to protect themselves if the government tries to take their rights away. Well... where are they now? Here's the government literally infringing on people's constitutional rights, not some made up "you can't make me wear a mask" BS. Actual ink on paper right to protest, and where are they? Why aren't they taking to the streets and holding the government to account for willful violation of the 1st amendment?

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Even some of the republican senators, like Rand Paul, are trying to get Trump to pump the breaks. The people have a constitutional right to protest.

All of those 2nd amendment jackholes love to tough guy preach how they own a gun cuz they don't trust the government and they "need" to protect themselves if the government tries to take their rights away. Well... where are they now? Here's the government literally infringing on people's constitutional rights, not some made up "you can't make me wear a mask" BS. Actual ink on paper right to protest, and where are they? Why aren't they taking to the streets and holding the government to account for willful violation of the 1st amendment?

Because they're not the ones taken from the street by a white van. Yet.
The fact is mankind doesn't want to be "better than his neighbour", but what mankind really wants is "his neighbour being worse than him".