The military police

[GCU Grey Area]

We're already ahead of a lot of dystopian narrative, good job!
America first!

Man in the High Castle next?

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

We're already ahead of a lot of dystopian narrative, good job!
America first!

Man in the High Castle next?

That's too sci fi. You need to take the "alternate dimension" thing out, no a-bombs in the US and you've got something very similar to the future. Maybe you're going to also have two or three distinct regions, but it's less probable.

[mr.WHO]

We're already ahead of a lot of dystopian narrative, good job!
America first!

Man in the High Castle next?

Somehow, I think modern day Americans wouldn't last a day in Man in the High Castle.

On personal note Man in the High Castle hit me strong despite the whole "alternate reality" and "nazi machine to travel between universes".
Just replace Japan with Soviet Union and you will have a documentary about regular day in Poland 1939-1945.

I truly wouldn't wish Man in the High Castle scenario to anyone.

[clakclak]

We're already ahead of a lot of dystopian narrative, good job!
America first!

Man in the High Castle next?

That's too sci fi. You need to take the "alternate dimension" thing out, no a-bombs in the US and you've got something very similar to the future. Maybe you're going to also have two or three distinct regions, but it's less probable.

Yes, seeing the latest videos I feel like we are more going towards the Cyberpunk style future at least when it comes to the aesthetics. This honestly looks like it could be the next Video Game Trailer.

[Observe]

Portland bans police from working with federal law enforcement, targeting journalists and legal observers during protests.

The ban on coordinating with federal officers cites “an unprecedented and unconstitutional abuse of power by the federal government” as reason to discipline any Portland police member if they provide, request or willingly receive operational support from any agency or employee representing the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Marshal Service, Federal Protective Service, Customs and Border Protection or any other federal service while they are occupying the city.

Where are the right-wing militia helping to defend Portland against the illegal Federal government? Isn't this what they've been waiting for forever?

[Vertigo 7]

Portland bans police from working with federal law enforcement, targeting journalists and legal observers during protests.

The ban on coordinating with federal officers cites “an unprecedented and unconstitutional abuse of power by the federal government” as reason to discipline any Portland police member if they provide, request or willingly receive operational support from any agency or employee representing the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Marshal Service, Federal Protective Service, Customs and Border Protection or any other federal service while they are occupying the city.

Where are the right-wing militia helping to defend Portland against the illegal Federal government? Isn't this what they've been waiting for forever?

I think you and I both know the answer to that. Since the protests are partly for the rights of blacks, they're perfectly fine with the feds beating up on the protesters. Either that or they're all talk and little substance. Likely the purchase of a firearm was to compensate for shortcomings.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Portland bans police from working with federal law enforcement, targeting journalists and legal observers during protests.

The ban on coordinating with federal officers cites “an unprecedented and unconstitutional abuse of power by the federal government” as reason to discipline any Portland police member if they provide, request or willingly receive operational support from any agency or employee representing the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Marshal Service, Federal Protective Service, Customs and Border Protection or any other federal service while they are occupying the city.

Where are the right-wing militia helping to defend Portland against the illegal Federal government? Isn't this what they've been waiting for forever?

Did they really say "while they are occupying the city"?
Is it Portland or Nassiryia?

[clakclak]

"Today, I'm announcing a surge of federal law enforcement into American communities plagued by violent crime. We'll work every single day to restore public safety, protect our nation's children, and bring violent perpetrators to justice."

Source.

So round two is incoming. I am curious how this will play out, but I am afraid the answer will not be good.

Also on a sidenote, there seems to be a crusade going on in Portland. And I mean in the middle ages type of way.

[fiksal]

Why arent Federal officers arrested? That's I'd do

They arent following the rules, why should city police?

[mr.WHO]

Why arent Federal officers arrested? That's I'd do

They arent following the rules, why should city police?

Well, why do you expect the police to do anything to federal office if local authorities defunded the police?
Really smart.
I rather expect most of police actually busy with submitting their CV for federal position, so it would be detrimental, if they would go against their prospective employeer.

Same with gun ownership.
"Why do you need guns? only police should have guns"
<proceed to defund the police>
<Charge Missouri Couple for defending their front porch from angry mob>

Democrats makes new Trump voters better than Trump himself.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

I remember, weeks ago (after Floyd's homicide), talking about US on the brink of civil war.
Somebody told me I was far away (as I'm in Italy) and, from inside the country, things weren't looking to escalate at that level.
Today, the mayor of a major US city is tear-gased by a federal security agency which, in theory, has no jurisdiction over public security (law has been bended a lot to give them jurisdiction - like telling public buildings were under attack).
What's going to happen if (when) people actually loses it? What's going to happen if (when) local police picks a size? What if they pick the citizens' side?
If only it was happening in a small tropical island... Well, in that case, probably CIA would be actually involved.

[fiksal]

Why arent Federal officers arrested? That's I'd do

They arent following the rules, why should city police?

Well, why do you expect the police to do anything to federal office if local authorities defunded the police?
Really smart.
I rather expect most of police actually busy with submitting their CV for federal position, so it would be detrimental, if they would go against their prospective employeer.

Have they now? I've not noticed that police had suddenly disappeared.
Defunding police doesnt mean to living without one. And good riddance if they are, out with the trash, in with some fresh blood.

Same with gun ownership.
"Why do you need guns? only police should have guns"
<proceed to defund the police>
<Charge Missouri Couple for defending their front porch from angry mob>

Democrats makes new Trump voters better than Trump himself.

Ha. It's all nonsense. Trump supporters arent made, - they are and they always been themselves. Biggest mistake Democrats can make is to assume their votes can be won.

The gun righters did jack nothing at protecting people's freedoms. I have no illusions that they ever intended to. They dont care about child abuses, child concentration camps, or police abuses, or federal police kidnapping people. Their calls that they need a gun to protect against tyranny is a one big joke. They want a gun for themselves, to shoot at people they dont like.

But there's one thing you are right about, one may need a gun to protect against a Trump supporter. Any gun will do though, doesnt need to be anything special. Knives work too.

I was always of an opinion that a civilized nation doesnt need guns in every hand, but, Americans arent up to the challenge, so I dont have illusions that Americans can live without guns. They cant, and the shootings is the price they are willing to pay. I say they, because I dont share that idea.

I remember, weeks ago (after Floyd's homicide), talking about US on the brink of civil war.
Somebody told me I was far away (as I'm in Italy) and, from inside the country, things weren't looking to escalate at that level.
Today, the mayor of a major US city is tear-gased by a federal security agency which, in theory, has no jurisdiction over public security (law has been bended a lot to give them jurisdiction - like telling public buildings were under attack).
What's going to happen if (when) people actually loses it? What's going to happen if (when) local police picks a size? What if they pick the citizens' side?
If only it was happening in a small tropical island... Well, in that case, probably CIA would be actually involved.

it's not * that bad * yet, no-one of significance to majority of people has died yet. But some things are more interesting than the others.

There's a simple answer to my question of why police arent arresting feds - because they are on the same side, because they cheer them on. So, what side police will take? Same side as every white nationalist.
Of course, some may not. Will see how even the split will be when it comes to that. I've no idea how to count good cops among the bad cops.

What I see in Portland is that the mayor has no enforcement anymore. The State needs to pull in the National Guard to arrest the feds if cops won't do it.

And yes, defund, fire, and prosecute every precinct and officers that committed crimes and got away with it. Replace them with police that will swear an oath to serve and protect the people. Isnt that a novel idea.

[mr.WHO]

Have they now? I've not noticed that police had suddenly disappeared.
Defunding police doesnt mean to living without one. And good riddance if they are, out with the trash, in with some fresh blood.

Imagine you're working in corporation and managed announce cost cutting and reductions. Will you still give your 100% or will you be busy searching for a new job? And I'm talking about corporation where nobody shoots at you (Oh wait, this might not be good comparison in USA ).
Good luck finding people stupid enough to employ as police now.

It's all nonsense. The gun righters did jack nothing at protecting people's freedoms. I have no illusions that they ever intended to. They dont care about child abuses, child concentration camps, or police abuses, or federal police kidnapping people. Their calls that they need a gun to protect against tyranny is a one big joke.

But there's one thing you are right about, one may need a gun to protect against a Trump supporter. Any gun will do though, doesnt need to be anything special. Knives work too.

It no more about about rights. If angry mob get into your lawn and police say they wont come (or there will be no polcie at all) then you need a gun or get looted/killed.
A lot of new first gun owners in 2020 and it's just July.

Also where are these legendary dangerous Trump mobs lynching people? I'd expect media to ride on these stories like it's early Christmass.

[fiksal]

Imagine you're working in corporation and managed announce cost cutting and reductions. Will you still give your 100% or will you be busy searching for a new job? And I'm talking about corporation where nobody shoots at you (Oh wait, this might not be good comparison in USA ).
Good luck finding people stupid enough to employ as police now.

Do you really want them yourself?

If the choice is between no police and corrupted, murdering and kidnappy style police - form militias out of civilians then. There's no-one else left to do the job better. That's actually Constitutional and intended use of the 2nd Amendment by the US Constitution in such times.

Also where are these legendary dangerous Trump mobs lynching people? I'd expect media to ride on these stories like it's early Christmass.

Is that a joke? That's all there's in the media now.

Do we really need to repeat forceful clearing and beatings by a church near White House? Portland's beatings and kidnappings? Minneapolis murder by cop? Some crazy people on a truck running down and gunning down a guy? Mysterious hanging of a woman? Executions of a guy just sitting on a bench by firing squad? Concentration camps that's been active for few years now? Paramilitary groups threatening city officials? And so on and on?

[mr.WHO]

If the choice is between no police and corrupted, murdering and kidnappy style police - form militias out of civilians then. There's no-one else left to do the job better. That's actually Constitutional and intended use of the 2nd Amendment by the US Constitution in such times.

I agree, militia is last viable option on the table, but it can sux too - CHAZ/CHOP militia did so great job - more black people died there in a month than police killed in a year (Area to Area, Year to Year).


BTW There is a real life example of a country which did the same - Mexico.
They weakened the tyrannical federal goverment, defunded the corruped and inneficient police and introduced the militias (it goes under mexican name "Cartels", I think).
It worked great and Mexico is real paradise of law, order and kind citizens.

Do we really need to repeat forceful clearing and beatings by a church near White House?
Portland's beatings and kidnappings?

This is normal police work, done the same in any Western country - Police did the same to Yellow Vest in France and preatty much every European contry do the same during any G7 or G20 meetings.
The very same is also done in Hong Hong.

Minneapolis murder by cop?

How this Trump fault? How about Police Chef? Mayor? Governor (but I think governor would be a streach too far as well)?

Some crazy people on a truck running down and gunning down a guy? Mysterious hanging of a woman? Executions of a guy just sitting on a bench by firing squad?

I'm not sure if I think about the same case, but you mean the truck guy from Charlottesville like 2-3 years ago?
Yes, if this is Trump fault then we could blame Biden for anything with ANTIFA/BLM logo as well (like that girl shot last week, because she dare to say "All lives matter").
I don't know the other two cases.
I do agree that some speech from politician could push some nutjob to action, but this is valid for all politicians left, right and center. Hardly a Trump fault, albeit he's first president to overdose Twitter like some kind of fragile teenager.

Concentration camps that's been active for few years now?

You mean the camps for illegals? Wasn't these created by Obama with his VP Biden? I don't have problem with calling these camps bad, but hearing these from Democrats seems like Hitler calling out Stalin.
P.S. Have you heard about camps in China? I haven't heard of US camps harvesting organs and using slave labor - albeit I could strech my definition and qualify US prison system as some form of slave labor.

Paramilitary groups threatening city officials?

You mean that one gun right rally in one state where governor wanted to confiscate all guns?
As far as I remember the rally was peaceful and I don't mean current definition of "peaceful".
I'm quite sure current events and movement to defund police actually prove they were right - I bet everyone think they dodge a huge bulet now.
Not to mention YOU endorse militias, so naturally when militias takeover they will tell the goverment what to do, not the other way around - if goverment will resist then what can they do? Call the police? Call federals? LOL.
The only option would be the national guard, but Militia would eat them for brekfast. Not to mention that after defunding the police, the next item on the list is the guard.

[fiksal]

I agree, militia is last viable option on the table, but it can sux too - CHAZ/CHOP militia did so great job - more black people died there in a month than police killed in a year (Area to Area, Year to Year).

Didnt actually follow what they did. And I dont of course want to see the militia, but if worst comes to worst, why not.

Do we really need to repeat forceful clearing and beatings by a church near White House?
Portland's beatings and kidnappings?

This is normal police work, done the same in any Western country - Police did the same to Yellow Vest in France and preatty much every European contry do the same during any G7 or G20 meetings.
The very same is also done in Hong Hong.

You are right, but that's not ideal is it? We shouldnt be tolerant of that.

Minneapolis murder by cop?

How this Trump fault? How about Police Chef? Mayor? Governor (but I think governor would be a streach too far as well)?

It's not, and it's not clear if the police officer in question is a Trump's fan - I never wondered. I am being honest in that I am sweeping them under the same rug with the same broom however. Maybe I am not being fair to them, but I am not sure I need to be.

Some crazy people on a truck running down and gunning down a guy? Mysterious hanging of a woman? Executions of a guy just sitting on a bench by firing squad?

I'm not sure if I think about the same case, but you mean the truck guy from Charlottesville like 2-3 years ago?

Actually, no, I have missed Charlottesville. The running down happened in the south somewhere, some yahoos followed a jogger and shot him after a confrontation.
The firing squad I am referring to is a video from police camera showing a squad of guys approaching a guy who they got called on. Apparently about a bb gun. He is told to comply with their commands, he sits down instead - they gun him down.

I can find source for the above if this doesnt ring a bell.

I do agree that some speech from politician could push some nutjob to action, but this is valid for all politicians left, right and center. Hardly a Trump fault, albeit he's first president to overdose Twitter like some kind of fragile teenager.

I have zero problem holding all politicians accountable to what they say. We zero in on Trump and not some public servant because he is at the top of the branch that can very easily exercise force, and does so.

Trump's fault here varies from case to case. From him insighting violence, to him being indifferent to violence. He regularly condemns victims of violence, a whole groups of people. I am trying to remember a time where he honestly condemned or acted against the guilty in the time where it was needed.

Then of course his direct involvement - the clearing of protesters, the federal military police, the concentration camps.

As I honestly said, I am passed the point of trying to distinguish between him, his followers or people that he inspires. It's a pointless exercise to me.

Concentration camps that's been active for few years now?

You mean the camps for illegals? Wasn't these created by Obama with his VP Biden? I don't have problem with calling these camps bad, but hearing these from Democrats seems like Hitler calling out Stalin.
P.S. Have you heard about camps in China? I haven't heard of US camps harvesting organs and using slave labor - albeit I could strech my definition and qualify US prison system as some form of slave labor.

Yes, the camps for refugees or anyone deemed illegally crossing, even against what US laws say. Some were set up during that time indeed. I am unfamiliar with abuses that were going on there, but I have zero problems for calling to prosecute them for that. I encourage that.

So that's bad enough as it is, I am however specifically referring to different camps, camps setup for children only.
Trump camps are more special in this, they are large, more people are involved, more kids are separated, more kids are permanently and intentionally permanently separated. If we prosecuted Obama era officials, it should be noted that the few cases we are aware of, the goal was to re-unite families wrongfully divided, and not instead.

And we know it's the goal. The zero tolerance was signed by Trump himself. They later lost in court at least once. But if I am not mistaken that didnt result in any closures.


EDIT: apologies for making my post larger yet.
While comparison to other countries are interesting, but they are so far interesting only as examples of what to be or not to be. I am not familiar with Chinese prisons, but I am familiar with law enforcement in Russia as I am with US one. I dont want either system, I want better. There are parts of either that can be salvaged, but the goal should be "better", not - lets not fix it because it can be worse.

Paramilitary groups threatening city officials?

You mean that one gun right rally in one state where governor wanted to confiscate all guns?
As far as I remember the rally was peaceful and I don't mean current definition of "peaceful".
I'm quite sure current events and movement to defund police actually prove they were right - I bet everyone think they dodge a huge bulet now.
Not to mention YOU endorse militias, so naturally when militias takeover they will tell the goverment what to do, not the other way around - if goverment will resist then what can they do? Call the police? Call federals? LOL.
The only option would be the national guard, but Militia would eat them for brekfast. Not to mention that after defunding the police, the next item on the list is the guard.

Probably that fits, I meant the paramilitary groups in Michigan, during the quarantine.

At some point as we go down a list of bandits and pseudo terrorists, we should end up with people who will swear to protect its citizens. Is it naive to think they exist?

[mr.WHO]

Didnt actually follow what they did. And I dont of course want to see the militia, but if worst comes to worst, why not.

If you will end up with no other options then why not, but it's more likely you end with Mexico style Cartel-run zones then some kind of Happy utopia of kind, honest and patriotic militia.

You are right, but that's not ideal is it? We shouldnt be tolerant of that.

Then show me the example of better solution. The only thing that comes to my mind is British police, but apparently, according to the left they are also violent and racist.
Riot police tactics is the same everywhere, but if you want to find way worse example, the "Tiananmen square" is a good reference point.

Actually, no, I have missed Charlottesville. The running down happened in the south somewhere, some yahoos followed a jogger and shot him after a confrontation.
The firing squad I am referring to is a video from police camera showing a squad of guys approaching a guy who they got called on. Apparently about a bb gun. He is told to comply with their commands, he sits down instead - they gun him down.

I can find source for the above if this doesnt ring a bell.

People are nuts, especially with all the COVID and economic problems - if you're keen to do violence because what Trump/Biden said then I'm rather sure you would be keen to do violence for any other reason.

As fo Police - this and many other cases seems much more like very bad training. US police is woefully undertrained comparing to other police forces, to the point they looks more like rag-tag militia than profesional force. Defunding will not change this (but shifting budget from military grade equipment to training and psyhological screening would help much more). This will only demoralize police even more and make that even worse people will get into police force. You must be naive to belive there will be enough good people willing to risk their life for ****** pay and no respect.

So that's bad enough as it is, I am however specifically referring to different camps, camps setup for children only.
Trump camps are more special in this, they are large, more people are involved, more kids are separated, more kids are permanently and intentionally permanently separated. If we prosecuted Obama era officials, it should be noted that the few cases we are aware of, the goal was to re-unite families wrongfully divided, and not instead.

Given that significant number (15-30%) of these children had no genetic relation to their suppose parent I see a choce between bad and worse. You have either children camps that will discourage travel with children, or you will have child trade.
I'd rather prefer US camp than travel with some random people who bought me just to get into US.
This is nothing more than using children as live shields.

At some point as we go down a list of bandits and pseudo terrorists, we should end up with people who will swear to protect its citizens. Is it naive to think they exist?

Absolutely naive. See CHAZ/CHOP militia, within the month they become triggerhappy shooting their own (like in wet dream of stereotypical racist cop).
At best you will get to your utopia with a pile of bodies, that would make previous system looks like paradise.

[Vertigo 7]

Why arent Federal officers arrested? That's I'd do

They arent following the rules, why should city police?

Well, why do you expect the police to do anything to federal office if local authorities defunded the police?
Really smart.
I rather expect most of police actually busy with submitting their CV for federal position, so it would be detrimental, if they would go against their prospective employeer.

Same with gun ownership.
"Why do you need guns? only police should have guns"
<proceed to defund the police>
<Charge Missouri Couple for defending their front porch from angry mob>

Democrats makes new Trump voters better than Trump himself.

With all the supposed knowledge you have about US, which all seems to come from Faux News, it would behoove you to learn what defunding the police actually means.

I'm sure like every hillbilly, you hear those words strung together and your immediate reaction is "Dey takin der jerbs!!!" and sure, maybe some police will be laid off. But the goal isn't to get rid of police. Instead is to shift money away from police to have more social services to deal with things like mental health issues and so forth that the police just aren't qualified and equipped to deal with appropriately.

And also, that Missouri couple was charged for endangering public safety. The protests weren't even on their property, yet they felt the need to go point guns at the people walking by. How would you like having guns pointed at you while you're walking down the street?

[mr.WHO]

I'm sure like every hillbilly, you hear those words strung together and your immediate reaction is "Dey takin der jerbs!!!" and sure, maybe some police will be laid off. But the goal isn't to get rid of police. Instead is to shift money away from police to have more social services to deal with things like mental health issues and so forth that the police just aren't qualified and equipped to deal with appropriately.

Ask yourself - did George Floyd had any mental issues? What social service would come to respond to his case?
How would shifting money from police to mental health issues would save him? With underpaid and undertrained cops there will be several times more of such George Floyd then further defunding and you will end up with Mexico style, cartel run zones.

And also, that Missouri couple was charged for endangering public safety. The protests weren't even on their property, yet they felt the need to go point guns at the people walking by. How would you like having guns pointed at you while you're walking down the street?

The road wasn't public road, it was closed community road and the front porch of their mansion was like 10 meters from the mob. These 2 vs several hundred people - seem even to me - if they cross the line they get shot, if couple would shot them for no reason, they would tear them apart - fortunately both sides did not crossed the line.
So many things could go wrong by sheer accident or plain stupidity that it's not even funny.
This is only a teaser of how things will look like when you take out the police.

[Vertigo 7]

I'm sure like every hillbilly, you hear those words strung together and your immediate reaction is "Dey takin der jerbs!!!" and sure, maybe some police will be laid off. But the goal isn't to get rid of police. Instead is to shift money away from police to have more social services to deal with things like mental health issues and so forth that the police just aren't qualified and equipped to deal with appropriately.

Ask yourself - did George Floyd had any mental issues? What social service would come to respond to his case?
How would shifting money from police to mental health issues would save him? With underpaid and undertrained cops there will be several times more of such George Floyd then further defunding and you will end up with Mexico style, cartel run zones.

Well apparently he told the police officers he was claustrophobic before he was thrown to the ground and murdered, so, probably. But even still, it's not as if George Floyd is an isolated case.

And also, that Missouri couple was charged for endangering public safety. The protests weren't even on their property, yet they felt the need to go point guns at the people walking by. How would you like having guns pointed at you while you're walking down the street?

The road wasn't public road, it was closed community road and the front porch of their mansion was like 10 meters from the mob. These 2 vs several hundred people - seem even to me - if they cross the line they get shot, if couple would shot them for no reason, they would tear them apart - fortunately both sides did not crossed the line.
So many things could go wrong by sheer accident or plain stupidity that it's not even funny.
This is only a teaser of how things will look like when you take out the police.

Sorry, that's not how things work in the US. The neighborhoods don't own the streets, the cities do. Anything the city/county/state/federal governments own own is public property, you know, the tax payers that paid for the things, with few exceptions such as military bases. Regardless, the protesters broke no laws. The couple did, specifically:

*571.030. Unlawful use of weapons — exceptions — penalties. — 1. A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons, except as otherwise provided by sections 571.101 to 571.121, if he or she knowingly:
...
(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner;...

http://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.a ... =33874&hl=

Further more, St Louis police haven't been defunded. So that's a rather moot point, isn't it?