Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

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notaterran
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Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by notaterran » Sat, 7. Nov 20, 20:19

Now that Trump is (hopefully!) on his way out, I wonder if his religious supporters are proud of the past four years. A survey seems to indicate that they are.

Many people -including some people of faith- are surprised/horrified at the amount of religious support that Trump has:
How can a group that for decades—and especially during the Bill Clinton presidency—insisted that character counts and that personal integrity is an essential component of presidential leadership not only turn a blind eye to the ethical and moral transgressions of Donald Trump, but also constantly defend him?
Link

Even a religious leader can recognize the moral collapse and why many young people are refusing to be a part of it. Here is also a discussion of, among other things, why so many young people are leaving religion.

By now there is plenty of evidence that for Trump's religious supporters, morals and principles are dependent on political affiliation:
After President Bill Clinton’s infidelity, the 1998 Southern Baptist Convention passed the “Resolution on Moral Character of Public Officials” declaring that a person’s “moral character matters” and that Americans should not vote for candidates who do not “demonstrate consistent honesty, moral purity, and the highest character.”
Link

Religion is so mixed with politics that a college ministry even changed its name!
Princeton Student Ministry Drops Evangelical Name After 80 Years
Link

It's always amusing to see a prominent hypocrite fall from grace, but I wonder what all of this will do to some Christian communities:
Before the 2016 election, I was comfortable with using the term “evangelical” for people like me, in spite of the problems with it. Now I am not so sure. The reason is that, whatever its historic value, the word “evangelical” in America has become inextricably tied to Republican politics.

[...]

But it is also because strong majorities of white evangelicals support Republican candidates, including Donald Trump. Because it has become inextricably politicized, “evangelical” has become an essentially divisive term among Bible-believing Christians, as many African Americans, Hispanics, and others cannot identify with the political ramifications of being an “evangelical,” especially after the election of President Trump.
Link
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Re: Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 7. Nov 20, 21:00

I have a lot I could say on this particular subject as I've been exposed to it most of my life.

Hypocrisy is especially common among conservative christians of any type. If they're not using their religion as a shield for their immoral behavior, they're cherry picking bits and pieces of it to suit themselves, usually while attacking others that aren't like them.

Anyone who calls themselves christian and then turns around and attacks someone for being homosexual or having an abortion or any of the favorite talking points among those types always seem to conveniently forget, or just not care, about the dozen or so different passages of the bible that specifically address hypocrisy; judge not lest ye be judged/let he who is without sin cast the first stone/etc. If they really believed in what their bible teaches them, they would stfu and let their god deal with the "sinners".

My point is, this is nothing new among republicans. Both the politicians and voters alike have always been full of shit. Trump and his enablers only shined a big ass spot light on it.
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Re: Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Mon, 9. Nov 20, 08:54

I've got a lot of very bad thoughts about religion, and christianity in particular as I'm directly in contact with it, but I can summarize everything as: conservatives today means medieval. Those kind of "beliefs" (on homosexuality, abortion, etc) are so out of our time I can only despise them.

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Re: Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by Chips » Mon, 9. Nov 20, 11:16

From your first link:
“The election results show that the Catholic Church is as divided as our nation, but the real divide is race and ethnicity, not theology,”
As another article said today, Democrats won against literally the worst person ever in the White House (metric to be decided) and are treating it as a huge success. Trump got more votes losing than any president in history has by winning (of course, population changes and now Biden has even more). Already read someone saying "we don't need to listen to Republican voters, don't want to engage - it's for them to change". That's precisely how you got Trump in the first place. The Government is to represent the nation, not just those who believe they've "won" a moral identity parade and should enforce it upon the rest. You don't run roughshod over half your population, you pull them up with you and take them along. Engage, listen, cajole, persuade etc. You don't need to appease every point, but you certainly don't go "lulz".

Are people hypocritical to their faith by voting for one party over another? Who cares. There are plenty of religious criminals among the population in the world - also hypocritical of their faiths. Why the sudden give-a-darn attitude because it came to a vote of which party should lead a country? Should you ban religion because it's got hypocrites among it? And there's no other hypocrite in the US? Would not voting for Biden be hypocritical as well due to his abortion stance? Is there an acceptable hypocrite wheel of hypocrisy, whereby within certain parameters the hypocrisy is welcome, whereas when it reaches the "knows no bounds" you've gotta start the moral intraspection?

Faith is something people choose to follow. Doesn't mean because you chose to follow it that you're suddenly a good person. It's down to the individual - and humans are selfish, coupled with a myriad of other faults. The fact they may identify with *some* political party as well should be irrelevant, do they have to agree with every policy in order to vote? Would anyone actually ever vote in that instance if it included a 100% morally clean stance (and who defines it, a book written by self interested religious quacks?). It's all about trade offs and compromises.

Why did they vote Trump, why did they vote Biden. Why did they vote at all? If your intent is to demand some form of admittance because it goes against their religious faiths on some vector, you may as well ask 1/3rd of Americans not to vote unless every single policy by any candidate/party matches exactly with their religious ideology. But I bet none of them live their lives to such rigorous standards, so why expect them to vote to them.

Isn't it time to start trying to understand what causes certain areas/sectors to vote the way they do - what their concerns are, and how to address / reassure, engage with and hopefully bring them forward, rather than seemingly focus upon the intent to smash them? The posts regarding politics in the forum read more like attempts to drive wedges deeper, rather than pull them out and bring people back.

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Re: Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by notaterran » Mon, 9. Nov 20, 20:07

My original post was not so much about faith, and certainly not about banning religion. It wasn't particularly about Christian belief / superstition / mythology -whatever we want to call it is strictly a matter of viewpoint. Again, my post was not really about the faith itself (the thread's title gives this away) but rather about what our religious hypocrites say, don't say, do or don't do in the context of the very unfortunate combination of religion and politics. This fire-and-brimstone, holier-than-thou rhetoric has been around for decades in its modern form, at least since the days of Reagan. I had to listen to some of it as I was growing up (Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson come to mind).

Simply put, as a guest on this show said, the religious right-wing owes Bill Clinton an apology!
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Re: Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by Chips » Tue, 10. Nov 20, 00:45

So what I'm getting here is that it was a rhetorical post.

k.

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Re: Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by notaterran » Tue, 10. Nov 20, 00:50

Not rhetorical. Please tell me which part of "religious hypocrisy" you don't understand.
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Re: Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by Falcrack » Tue, 10. Nov 20, 03:19

Not everyone who is religious supports Donald Trump. There are many, including myself, who feel that he is the absolute antithesis of what a Christian should be. My main reasons I oppose Trump are because of my religion, not in spite of it.

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Re: Religious Hypocrisy and Donald Trump

Post by notaterran » Tue, 10. Nov 20, 06:50

I agree that not everyone who is religious supports Donald Trump. The religious right-wing are a special bunch: they've sold their souls for political power.
[...] Trump has exposed the hypocrisy of many evangelical Christians who, for decades, have declared themselves judge and jury of moral behavior. Defending Trump, however, has forced them to look beyond his behavior and, thus, makes it difficult to judge anyone else.
Link

There are religious people who cannot understand so much hypocrisy:
Many of us have been appalled to watch those claiming to be deeply religious evangelical Christians bestow a lopsided 75% to 80% majority of their political support upon Donald Trump, a man constantly demonstrating his total lack of human decency through his cruel social policies, sleazy personal behavior, ceaseless torrent of lies and vicious, hate-filled slurs spewed at anyone who refuses to bow down before him.
Link

Like it's been said already: those people need to apologize to Bill Clinton. Repeatedly.
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