Ordering New Custom Built PC in a Week...

[Gavrushka]

I'm with you all the way. Every single time I've ventured into AMD world, with either their GPUs or CPUs, I end up with shit hardware or shit drivers or both. I've stuck with Intel and Nvidia and I've never been disappointed. In fact, my go to build is pretty well always Intel CPU, Asus mobo, Corsair RAM, EVGA Nvidia GPU, Samsung SSD, and I've never once been disappointed.

AMD may have the fastest benchmarked CPU's on the market today, but the marginal gains aren't worth sacrificing reliability, imo.

It's pretty similar for me, but regarding brands, it's more specific ones I like to avoid. - A CPU dying is a pretty big hit to take, and I've never had it happen before, all the way back to my first PC, a Sharp MZ 80K, back in the 70s. - As regards drives, I'll not touch WD because two failed on me in a relatively short time. - And I had a series of PSUs fail too, even though they in theory were running way below design capacity. - Swapping in a new PSU is likely my least favourite job...

[Gavrushka]

Since I dont think anyone else has mentioned it yet, the 3600 MHz RAM being overclocked is the recommended overclocked speed using an XMP Profile (pre-set timings, etc). You'll have to go into BIOS/UEFI and turn XMP memory profile on (or overclock it manually if you know how). Important thing is to check your motherboard's qualified vendors list (QVL) to make sure its compatible, otherise you might end up in a situation like mine where I have to run my RAM at a lower speed for a stable system which isn't good as CPUs now really benefit from fast RAM.

edit: just noticed you say prebuilt. They'll probably do all that for you.

Yeah, they prebuild and test it for me, and Palicomp are very, very good. - Only thing is I don't really like anything overclocked, but I was struggling to find fast memory that wasn't. - I believe there's some 3200 rated memory available that is 'genuine,' and I may just switch to that if it doesn't hurt performance too much.

[Gavrushka]

AMD may have the fastest benchmarked CPU's on the market today, but the marginal gains aren't worth sacrificing reliability, imo.

And if it did mean that then I'm sure it would be all over the news, but your experience with AMD CPUs seems to be atypical, at least at the moment. My last 3 computers have used AMD processors--Athlon X3, then Athlon X4 860K, and now a Ryzen 2600--and I've not had any more problems with them than I had with Intel hardware previously.

The X4 880K was brilliant while it lasted (a little over a year,) but I guess personal experience always guides us. - Maybe it's always good practice to have a better CPU cooler than the stock one with AMD, as I did note in some reviews that they did generate a fair bit of heat. - After my X4 failed, I installed monitoring software for heat in my subsequent system, and made sure to clean fans etc regularly. - Maybe if I'd done the same with the Athlon, it would have lasted longer.

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

Since I dont think anyone else has mentioned it yet, the 3600 MHz RAM being overclocked is the recommended overclocked speed using an XMP Profile (pre-set timings, etc). You'll have to go into BIOS/UEFI and turn XMP memory profile on (or overclock it manually if you know how). Important thing is to check your motherboard's qualified vendors list (QVL) to make sure its compatible, otherise you might end up in a situation like mine where I have to run my RAM at a lower speed for a stable system which isn't good as CPUs now really benefit from fast RAM.

edit: just noticed you say prebuilt. They'll probably do all that for you.

Yeah, they prebuild and test it for me, and Palicomp are very, very good. - Only thing is I don't really like anything overclocked, but I was struggling to find fast memory that wasn't. - I believe there's some 3200 rated memory available that is 'genuine,' and I may just switch to that if it doesn't hurt performance too much.

I don't believe any RAM at 3000MHz+ gets there without overclocking. Overclocking these days isn't bad anyway? Not sure why you'd avoid it.

[jlehtone]

I don't believe any RAM at 3000MHz+ gets there without overclocking. Overclocking these days isn't bad anyway? Not sure why you'd avoid it.

Lets take OT example:
A Dell rack server. It hosts 2nd Gen. Intel Xeon Scalable CPU. Intel spec says:
* Memory Type DDR4-2400
* Maximum Memory Speed 2400 MHz
(The i7-10700 has "Memory Type DDR4-2933".)

What memory does Dell pack into such server? 2666, 2933, or preferably 3200 RDIMMs. Not "2400".

[Gavrushka]

I had no idea actual and stated memory speeds were different!

So the memory below (I was going for either this or Corsair RGB Pro rated at the same speed) is overclocked with an added heatsink to stop it from frying, and its rated speed is 2880? I guess if they're offering a lifetime warranty, the failure rate must be very low.

Code: Select all

 
Product Description - ADATA XPG Spectrix D41 RGB LED 32GB Kit (4 x 8GB), DDR4, 3600MHz (PC4-28800), CL16, XMP 2.0, DIMM Memory
Series - ADATA XPG Spectrix D41
DDR Type - DDR4
Size - 4 x 8GB
Speed - 3600 MHz
Compliance - PC4-28800
Pins - 288-pin
CAS Latency - CL16
Data Integrity Check - Non-ECC
Low Voltage - No
Voltage - 1.2V - 1.4V
Timings - 16-16-16
Heatsink - Yes
Heatsink Details - Armor-inspired heatsink
LED Lighting - RGB lighting Fully customizable and programmable
Package Type - Retail
Package Weight - 0.1500 kg
Warranty - Lifetime
 

[Vertigo 7]

So the memory below (I was going for either this or Corsair RGB Pro rated at the same speed) is overclocked with an added heatsink to stop it from frying, and its rated speed is 2880? I guess if they're offering a lifetime warranty, the failure rate must be very low.

So, take a look at the specs on Corsair's site for the RAM you're interested in.

For example, here's the RAM I'm currently using from them for well over a year now:
https://www.corsair.com/ww/en/Categorie ... tech-specs

The RAM is tested to specs. You're getting hung up on the overclock term. In this context, it's marketing for min/maxers. This RAM is designed to run at 3600Mhz and is quite stable at the manufacturer's specs. In fact, my BIOS is set to bclk freq of 100Mhz and multiplier of 36 for the RAM speed.

One thing to keep in mind as well, the individual DIMMs only run at half the speed. It needs 2 channels to achieve the full throughput - DDR = Dual Data Rate.

[jlehtone]

The "PC4-28800" is "Module name" and hints that peak transfer rate is 28800 MB/s. (megabytes/s)
The chip type name is "DDR4-3600", implying that it can do 3600 MT/s. (megatransfers/s)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR4_SDRAM#Modules
All those different nomenclatures (for same object) are IMHO confusing.

I would not say that the memory is "overclocked" in itself.
It has better quality than the bare minimum that is required by default.

[Tycow]

Just to jump in... I've always been an Intel CPU person (apart from one Athlon back in the day). I chose to put a Ryzen 5 3600X in my new build, and cannot complain about my choice. It's stable, it runs cool, and was very reasonably priced. It works really well with the 3070!

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

Just to jump in... I've always been an Intel CPU person (apart from one Athlon back in the day). I chose to put a Ryzen 5 3600X in my new build, and cannot complain about my choice. It's stable, it runs cool, and was very reasonably priced. It works really well with the 3070!

Yes there really is no reason to judge AMD by standards 30 years ago. I have a Ryzen 1600X. Its good.

[pjknibbs]

One thing to keep in mind as well, the individual DIMMs only run at half the speed. It needs 2 channels to achieve the full throughput - DDR = Dual Data Rate.

Incorrect. Double Data Rate means the memory is capable of transferring data on both the rising and falling edges of the clock, which is where the name comes from--the memory is entirely capable of reaching the advertised speed as a single DIMM. You're thinking of Dual Channel, which is an unrelated feature whereby the CPU can read from two memory DIMMs at the same time in order to further increase throughput (and which has existed since before DDR was a thing).

[Gavrushka]

Thanks for the education around RAM. - I'm still a turnip short of a cartload, but at least I'm aware of it now. - I know what to buy, and I won't fear a China Syndrome event from any 'overclocking.' - I've even realised the need to adjust my MoBo choice to allow for 4 slabs (technical term) of memory to be installed (8gbx4.)

I am still going for an I7, and I recognise that's more an emotive choice than a practical one. - My existing I7 (an 8700) has just a stock cooler, but it's been brilliant, never getting above 65 Celsius, even on stress tests, and my Geforce 1660 (just a few weeks old) likewise has always stayed cool, as did my previouse Geforce card. -The Sharkoon case is the only doubt for me now. There's a far more expensive Corsair Airflow Obsidian jobby out there, and I'm tempted to go for that instead.

But I feel confident and informed now, and I'm very appreciative of everyone's input.

I'll be back to ask for help with an NAS solution in a few months.

[red assassin]

- I've even realised the need to adjust my MoBo choice to allow for 4 slabs (technical term) of memory to be installed (8gbx4.)

Wait, why? I'd lightly prefer a board with 4 DIMM slots so you can put two in now and have two available for upgrades later, but there's no advantage to filling four slots now.

[Gavrushka]

Ah, it's just I'd realised the memory I'd chosen was (2x8GB) x2, and felt pathetically pleased with myself on recognising my prior board choice only had two memory, umm, crevices.

I'll never upgrade the memory, so it doesn't matter about having free slots.

Why have I a sinking feeling I'm about to be identified as Thicky McThickface's less able older brother?

[red assassin]

Ah, it's just I'd realised the memory I'd chosen was (2x8GB) x2, and felt pathetically pleased with myself on recognising my prior board choice only had two memory, umm, crevices.

I'll never upgrade the memory, so it doesn't matter about having free slots.

Why have I a sinking feeling I'm about to be identified as Thicky McThickface's less able older brother?

Not at all, it just seems easier to switch to 2*16GB modules and be able to fit them either to a board with two slots, or to a board with four slots and have space for upgrades, rather than to change motherboard to fit 4*8GB in. (I always find choosing a motherboard one of the more annoying bits of PC builds.) Shouldn't make much difference to price.

[Gavrushka]

Not at all, it just seems easier to switch to 2*16GB modules and be able to fit them either to a board with two slots, or to a board with four slots and have space for upgrades, rather than to change motherboard to fit 4*8GB in. (I always find choosing a motherboard one of the more annoying bits of PC builds.) Shouldn't make much difference to price.

Yeah, I would've done that, but all the 32GB options available from Palicomp are 4x8GB. I guess that's for cheapness or maybe to force purchasing a more expensive MoBo?

[burger1]

Ram timings

https://youtu.be/Yed-a9vqTYc

The case can store 3 regular hard drives with cooling, uncooled hard drives can fail more: to three 3.5" hard drives can be installed on the bottom of the case inside the tunnel

Case is also atx so you can reuse the case with most normal mainboards.

For hard drives some hard drives have "burst memory" that's basically used as ram for the hard drive. This lets the hard drive do some tasks faster and decreases the wear on the hard drive. The warranty offered usually reflects this. Like hard drives with d-ram and d-ramless hard drives. It might also be a factor in hard drives slowing down over time.

Based on the case builds I guess your also going to run into the water cooler orientation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGomv195sk

[jlehtone]

You're thinking of Dual Channel, which is an unrelated feature whereby the CPU can read from two memory DIMMs at the same time in order to further increase throughput (and which has existed since before DDR was a thing).

The i7 10700K has indeed two DDR4 memory channels. First gen Core i7 had three DDR3 channels, 3rd gen with Socket 2011 had four DDR3 channels, and 3rd gen Xeon Scalables have six DDR4 channels.

Yeah, I would've done that, but all the 32GB options available from Palicomp are 4x8GB. I guess that's for cheapness or maybe to force purchasing a more expensive MoBo?

Four memory modules in those four memory slots, but only two channels mean that each channel will have two modules. One module per channel can be better than two per channel (although it really shows in server, where you could have three per channel), so "cheapness" sounds believable.

[Gavrushka]

@Burger - Great videos, and were a great help. - I feel the strong urge to build a PC from scratch now, but I'll resist! LOL

@jlehtone - I checked a few other custom builders, and they all offered 2 slot solutions for 32GB and higher, so I may just contact Palicomp about it before finalising the spec. - They offer 64GB (4x16gb) but not 32GB (2x16gb) and so they should be able to accommodate me.

*BUT* the issue it looks like I'm gonna face is availability of RTX 3 series cards, and I may have to put that an order and swap in my existing graphics card in the interim. - Hopefully there's new stock on order.

[Gavrushka]

Sat at Palicomp's checkout, waiting for support to ring me back to confirm everything is okay. - I've gone for three internal drives, but I believe an M2 doesn't use a drive slot, but attaches direct to the MoBo, yes? (Did I make that up?) - I've also gone for a secondary SSD and a 2TB mechanical drive. - I take onboard @burger's comments about heat generation, but I've the case maxed out with fans, and there's a 240mm radiator at the front for the CPU. I don't like hot computers...

I tried to get a discount (free warranty upgrade) but apparently parts are in such short supply and they're so busy, everything if full cost. PC weighs in at £2,200, which I'm more than happy with. - I just wish they'd call me back to confirm spec is okay so I can checkout! (Been waiting over an hour now...)

Thanks again to everyone who steered me towards an educated choice of spec.

*edit* PC will be here in 5-10 days, and the support guy rang to point out my spec was poohier than a hippo on laxatives, so changed a few things over, including the case, the cooler and the PSU...

...and it just so happened his Spec was more expensive. A fool and their money...