Movies people love to hate but you love anyway

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fiksal
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Re: Movies people love to hate but you love anyway

Post by fiksal » Wed, 6. Jan 21, 23:33

Ketraar wrote:
Wed, 6. Jan 21, 23:24
fiksal wrote:
Wed, 6. Jan 21, 21:19
That could be better if they'd make it clear from the start.
But why? Why would there need to be a disclaimer to inform viewers?
It's a better story telling - establish the world where you are telling the story. And I dont mean disclaimer message, I mean a story telling element that's missing.

Ketraar wrote:
Wed, 6. Jan 21, 23:24
Still I think it soon makes it obvious that its more fantasy like star wars when Neo's mouth starts to grow shut... :roll:
Hm, I am not sure we are discussing the same things actually. The in-Matrix world is clearly not governed by cause-and-effect. It not only has "magic" it literally only has magic.

What I meant above is that the so-called "real" world as shown in the movie also has magic. And that part has not been clearly established in the movie, we were just thrown that into our faces in Matrix 2, I believe.

In Matrix 1, we got the common sci fi-y tropes, like anti gravity engines, EMP, head chips, hacker green screens, - I personally can not pin point an instance where I'd say - ah yep, magic is totally real.
Am I missing something obvious?


Ketraar wrote:
Wed, 6. Jan 21, 23:24
Ghost in the Shell 2017 - not as good as the 1995 one but still enjoyable.
I think I like them both actually for different reasons. (re)watched first one back to back with the new one.
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Re: Movies people love to hate but you love anyway

Post by Ketraar » Thu, 7. Jan 21, 00:10

fiksal wrote:
Wed, 6. Jan 21, 23:33
What I meant above is that the so-called "real" world as shown in the movie also has magic.
But is it the real world? At no point you have credible source telling you that you are in a "real" world. All the people within (especially in 1) THINK they know the truth and one thing we can take from mostly 2 and later 3 is that no one has any real clue and everyone just does the things they THINK they have to and that those things are right. If we go with the notion of Neo being the 6th "version", how would Morpheus know the difference between real and fake? He was just as TOLD "the truth" as he did to Neo, the difference being that Neo dint do the thing he was supposed to do (whatever that means) he thinks he did it because he had a choice, but we dont really know if he did, nor does he and I'm not sure he is aware until very late in 3.

Anyway I'm ranting on. The Matrix is a metaphorical movie and at no point it is to be taken as realistic or of representation of reality, its made to highlight and portray some ideas and mess around with our head trying to make us question our own reality.

MFG

Ketraar

PS.: Yes I really like the matrix :p
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Re: Movies people love to hate but you love anyway

Post by fiksal » Thu, 7. Jan 21, 00:39

Ketraar wrote:
Thu, 7. Jan 21, 00:10
fiksal wrote:
Wed, 6. Jan 21, 23:33
What I meant above is that the so-called "real" world as shown in the movie also has magic.
But is it the real world? At no point you have credible source telling you that you are in a "real" world. All the people within (especially in 1) THINK they know the truth and one thing we can take from mostly 2 and later 3 is that no one has any real clue and everyone just does the things they THINK they have to and that those things are right. If we go with the notion of Neo being the 6th "version", how would Morpheus know the difference between real and fake? He was just as TOLD "the truth" as he did to Neo, the difference being that Neo dint do the thing he was supposed to do (whatever that means) he thinks he did it because he had a choice, but we dont really know if he did, nor does he and I'm not sure he is aware until very late in 3.
That's what I call making the movie look smarter than it is :) What you describe could have been an interesting movie as well, but it doesnt appear that this is what have been made. Characters never doubt the reality of the "real" world.
And I think because the writers never thought of it.

In general, when watching a movie I accept the reality of the world that is shown in the movie, as the reality of that movie. (Terminator world, Hellboy world, Apollo 13 world). Sci fi movies generally try to ground them in some kind of relateable reality, so do fantasy movies, but to lesser extent.


Still though, my opinion is not that much different, as I said, I dont think events in 3 movies happen outside of Matrix at all. One may wonder if those are even humans and are not just loose AI ;)
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Re: Movies people love to hate but you love anyway

Post by Ketraar » Thu, 7. Jan 21, 00:53

There are plenty of movie and story examples that use unreliable narrator, again I dont claim to know what the writers intended, its just how I interpret the movie, at the beginning I too thought I was told truths, but soon realised that most, especially Morpheus (our truth teller) had no clue what he was talking about, he just told a story some told him and he happen to want to believe it hard to create purpose to his life. As said later on and especially in 3 its evident to me that no one is telling us the truth, they all tell their versions of what they THINK is true or were told it was. Putting in to question reality and what the meaning of life is. (its clearly 42 but they didnt know :p )

MFG

Ketraar

Edit didnt catch the last line before hitting reply, but yeah could well be
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Re: Movies people love to hate but you love anyway

Post by fiksal » Thu, 7. Jan 21, 00:54

I'll agree with this.

Have you heard there's a 4th in plan? Maybe just rumors.
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Re: Movies people love to hate but you love anyway

Post by Ketraar » Thu, 7. Jan 21, 00:57

It has a release date 23 December 2021 :-)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10838180/

MFG

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Re: Movies people love to hate but you love anyway

Post by fiksal » Thu, 7. Jan 21, 05:08

:thumb_up:
Gimli wrote:Let the Orcs come as thick as summer-moths round a candle!

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