Learning the German language

[Teladi CEO]

Hi,

As a United States resident we only have the option of learning French or Spanish, however I’ve taken an interest into German.

I was hoping that some native or new German speakers would be willing to give me some tips. I am fairly fluent in French if that helps.

Thanks!

[mr.WHO]

My real life atempt to learn German:
- I walk to book store to pick random learning course
- open on random page and read random phrase
- "I do not know these women"
- open again on random page and read random phrase
- "send my regards to your (male) spouse"
- I put book away and walk away

[X2-Illuminatus]

First of all: good choice! German is a great language. If you learned French already, then that is certainly helpful, as you learned certain aspects of grammar which are not as distinct in English as they are in German or French. German grammar is still a bit more complicated than French. German also does not share as many words with English, as English does with French. And a lot of words that do look and sound similar may mean something completely different: False friends. So at first, learning German means remembering a lot of irregularities.

On the plus side, German is easier to pronounce than French and has some nice features, such as compound words. Also, once you've got the hang of things like having three genders for nouns, it comes in really handy when having to write texts.

As a native speaker, I don't have any specific advice I can give you for learning German. But if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[Tamina]

I am not as enthusastic as X2 regarding your French skills, because those are two completely distinct languages. Sometimes I wonder how so different cultures and languages could develop along one border

Pro German:
- Everything is pronounced as is it written.
- Many, relatively speaking, words make some sense: Fridge = Kühlschrank -> Kühl-Schrank = Cooling cabinet, which is nice. To some degree we also like to develop our own words by putting other words desciptively together, in every day language

Con German:
- Similar in french [le, la, les -> Der Die Das] prepare yourself to hate them. They don't make any sense. Not even to German native speakers. We are more often then not arguing about them.
According to them a girl is an object, a box is female while cartons are male. Most of the time it is just a feeling of what sounds right.

Which is also my "advice" to get you an idea of where your journey is going.

[X2-Illuminatus]

I am not as enthusastic as X2 regarding your French skills, because those are two completely distinct languages.

German and French are certainly different. No need to argue about that. What I meant with regards to grammar is that comming from a language like English which only uses a neutral gender for nouns and often simple forms of declensions (if at all), it certainly helps when you've been introduced to a more distinct usage of these grammatical concepts. French also has lots of irregularities. Whereby that is probably true for a lot of languages.

According to them a girl is an object, a box is female while cartons are male

My favourite example for that is "der Bus", "die Bahn", "das Auto". Three things (bus, train, car), still three different articles. However, while it requires a lot of time learning these genders - and it's really just that learning - it's super helpful for writing, when you can refer to these things with different (relative) pronouns.

[jlehtone]

- Everything is pronounced as is it written.

Why does 'e' in 'klein' sound more like 'a'?

[Tamina]

- Everything is pronounced as is it written.

Why does 'e' in 'klein' sound more like 'a'?

Because it is combined with an i (ei). They build a "doublephone", that is two letters that are pronounced as a single phone, "ai" in this case.
They can be seen as an additional letter and are simple to learn because they are very consistent.

ei = ai - or just an English pronounced i
ie = stretched i
eu/äu = pronounced as "oü"
ch = imagine a cat hissing but very short
sch = equivalent to English shhh

[Teladi CEO]

Thanks Tamina and X2,

Sounds like I have quite a bit to learn. How does plurality work in German? Also, How does past and present tense work?

Besides for the genderization of words, do they have a certain spelling based on the gender they refer to. Like
In English, blond if it’s a guy, blonde if it’s a girl

[X2-Illuminatus]

Besides for the genderization of words, do they have a certain spelling based on the gender they refer to. Like
In English, blond if it’s a guy, blonde if it’s a girl

No, there isn't.

How does plurality work in German?

I thought a bit about it, but I didn't manage to come up with concise rules. There are certain plural endings "-n, -en, -e, -r, -er, -s", which are used based on the singular form and gender of the noun. This website has a nice overview. But there are too many possible combinations, and as mentioned on the website, "there are many exceptions to these rules". (For example: singular "der Baum" (the tree), plural "die Bäume" (the trees)). Therefore, my advice for learning vocabularies is to always learn the singular and plural form at the same time.

Also, How does past and present tense work?

That's a bit easier. Verbs usually have an infinitive form, for example "machen" (to make). You remove the infinitive ending "-en" and depending on the tense and personal pronoun you add a new ending:

For present tense that would be

Code: Select all

(I) ich 				-e	-> Ich mache
(you) du 				-st 	-> du machst
(he/she/it) er/sie/es 			-t	-> er/sie/es macht
(we) wir 				-en	-> wir machen
(you plural) ihr 			-t	-> ihr macht
(they) sie 				-en	-> sie machen

For simple past that would be

Code: Select all

(I) ich 				-te	-> Ich machte
(you) du 				-test 	-> du machtest
(he/she/it) er/sie/es 			-te	-> er/sie/es machte
(we) wir 				-ten	-> wir machten
(you plural) ihr 			-tet	-> ihr machtet
(they) sie 				-ten	-> sie machten

Obviously, it is not always as easy as this. Otherwise it wouldn't be German. All in all, there are 6 tenses, and you have to distinguish between regular, irregular and auxiliary verb forms.

Again, the website from above has a nice overview and some helpful explanations.

ch = imagine a cat hissing but very short

I had to chuckle.

For pronounciation of "eu/äu" I would think that "oi" (or "oy") is closer. (Not sure if many English speaking folks know what "ü" sounds like.)

[euclid]

................(Not sure if many English speaking folks know what "ü" sounds like.)

If you have some (phonetic) background in French then "rue" (street) is precisely the sound (without the "r" ofc). Concerning the German phonetics of "ch" it's the same as the Welsh "ll" (double L) as in Llandeilo. Of coure I'm aware that many (if not all) English folks have difficulties to pronounce that

Cheers Euclid

[X2-Illuminatus]

"rue" is indeed a great example.

Concerning the German phonetics of "ch" it's the same as the Welsh "ll" (double L) as in Llandeilo.

That on the other hand is a horrible example. When you listen to someone speaking Welsh, it sounds so nice. And then you see a written text, and it just looks so incomprehensible.

But I digress, so how's your German these days, euclid?

[euclid]

"rue" is indeed a great example.

Concerning the German phonetics of "ch" it's the same as the Welsh "ll" (double L) as in Llandeilo.

That on the other hand is a horrible example. When you listen to someone speaking Welsh, it sounds so nice. And then you see a written text, and it just looks so incomprehensible.

Heheh, true. I live here more than 20 years now and still struggle to pronounce some of the Welsh words. Mind you, there are even words without any vocals

But I digress, so how's your German these days, euclid?

Spoken is still pretty good as we talk (most of the time) German at home. Written is a different issue. I kind of gave up after the 2nd(?) "Reform" of the German "Rechtschreibung", in particular things like Foto and Delfin, omg!!

Cheers Euclid

[Teladi CEO]

Thanks to everyone for the help, you’ve given me the basics to learn German.

Now I just need to cut a hole in my schedule for time to learn German

[X2-Illuminatus]

You're welcome.

I kind of gave up after the 2nd(?) "Reform" of the German "Rechtschreibung", in particular things like Foto and Delfin, omg!!

Then you probably missed the reform of the reform. Nowadays, The Duden distinguishes between a recommended spelling and an alternative spelling. So, in theory both spellings "Delfin" and "Delphin" are okay to use, but the former is the recommended form.

[silenced]

First of all, French ist NOT a language, it's an accident!

Second, good choice to learn one of the most fun languages in the world. I appreciate!