[MOD/Script] LI Freight Distribution Network (FDN) - v7.2 21/11/2010

[DrBullwinkle]

I can see the new shipyards, but there are no stations listed for sale at these shipyards.

The various Logain Abler threads are peppered with discussions about this bug. As far as I can tell from the threads, LA never got it entirely fixed. He made several posts similar to this one; from the LI 7 Mod FAQ:

FAQ:

Buying LI_Modv7 Stations:

There is a potential issue adding custom stations to existing race Shipyards, by which tradable items become unavailable to the player and the Shipyard show no items for sale.

To overcome this issue if LI_Modv7 is installed two new Shipyards are created for each Major race and all LI Stations are added for purchase as normal by the player. This removes any requirement to modify and existing race Shipyards

LI Stations can be bought as normal via these outlets.

Logain Industries:

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Argon - Ringo Moon & Treasure Chest
Bororn - Rolk's Drift & Hollow Infinity
Paranid - Emperor Mines & Priest Refuge
Split - Thuruk's Pride & Njy's Deception
Teladi - Greater Profit & New Income
Terran - Saturn 3 & Neptune

[Logain Abler]

It’s been a while and my time has been, and will be limited but I hope to start up my scripting days!
I’ve been mulling over FDN and looking at how I can move it away from requiring modded docks which causes all kinds of compatibility issues, so this is my idea

Virtual storage!

FDN will run on any dock, to do this once the FDN local storage is full wares will be held virtually until called upon by FDN, or via other scripts.

Pros:
- No comparability issues with the wealth of great mods out there
- Will work on any dock

Cons:
- Will require scripted processes to manage virtual stock
- As the majority of stock will be held virtually it will not easily be available to the vanilla game mechanics

I plan to remove the range limitation between FDN “Nodes” making it slightly easier to manage, but I’ll keep the range limit on supplying factories.

I’m in the planning stage at the moment, looking at the current (if somewhat older) FDN, what can be recycled, what needs to change and what can stripped out. FDN is inherently complex, and due to what it does I’m not sure how easy it will be to make it easier without dumbing it down.

FDN name may even change and for cleanness I will probably start a new post. If it works I plan to make similar changes to PM.

As always thoughts, ideas and inputs are welcome.


LA

[apricotslice]

I've been thinking about how to do the same thing with marines.

Yes, do it.
Yes, start a new thread for it.
Yes, give it a new name.

Personally, I'd prefer to see the range limitations removed completely. They never made sense to me.

Simple would be you build 1 single dock (like a trade dock or EQ dock, or even Military Base or Outpost.), that connects to all stations that you assign to use it, and they are all connected by the gate network and adv sats.

Then the whole thing is virtual, attached to a single controller script on a single dock, turned on by the AL. The controller script controls timing, calling the scripts that do the station checking and array handling.

Back in the day, its the sort of array handling that I loved, but the SE is just too cumbersome for me to try it.

Please dont build it needing hotkeys. In AP hotkeys are bugged. It would be better to use station commands on the node dock. (Station command calls a custom menu, not hotkey calling menu).

The AL turns on the controller timing script. Station Commands activate the menus to add and subtract stations (and automatically add all resources and products to the arrays), and the controller timed movement scripts add and subtract things from the arrays as each station is checked for what it needs and what it has. The whole thing should then be low maintenance on the computer and game.

The main issue is how to build the arrays and maintain them.

Go to it, good luck

[Logain Abler]

Personally, I'd prefer to see the range limitations removed completely. They never made sense to me.

Simple would be you build 1 single dock (like a trade dock or EQ dock, or even Military Base or Outpost.), that connects to all stations that you assign to use it, and they are all connected by the gate network and adv sats.

I like this idea, the “Node” (I need a new name for that) integrates into the existing Gate Network. It also removed a lot of overhead on the script side checking closest “Node”. “One Node to rule them all and in the dark of space supply them”

Then the whole thing is virtual, attached to a single controller script on a single dock, turned on by the AL. The controller script controls timing, calling the scripts that do the station checking and array handling.

This was how FDN worked in the early days but it some became an issue with a large number of factories. I then moved the monitor and supply task to the factory which will request resources as and when they need them

Okay, if FDN goes back to a central supply script, some thoughts/ideas on the logic…
Factories are added to an array which also captures the time of the next cycle. The control script cycles the array every 30 seconds (for arguments sake) and skips any factory whose completed cycle time is greater than the next check time, if not it start the supply script on the Factory and moves on.

Please dont build it needing hotkeys. In AP hotkeys are bugged. It would be better to use station commands on the node dock. (Station command calls a custom menu, not hotkey calling menu).

Thanks for the heads up.

Go to it, good luck

Ta

[Stealth17]

Hi All,

Great mod! Will really save me hours and hours of work constructing complexes.

I've installed the mod and built my first node but I can't find how to enable FDN on factories. I read the FAQ, I read the guide, I tried Google to see if I was missing anything but I don't understand how to enable FDN. What am I missing?

- I have a node constructed
- I have 2 factories (not complexed) in the same sector
- I have the AL plugin enabled (obviously)

Hope anyone can help me!

Thanks,
Stealth

[Zonzo]

@Logain,

I have been using FDN, PM (with reseach add on) and CSecG for some time.
Nothing but pure gold for improving playing experience.
All them also reduce dramatically default game annoyances.
Thank you for that.

@Stealth17
Assign hotkey to Plugins, PM and FDN are there, both main console and configuration.
So, hit Plugins hot key, from FDN main menu you should see your factories and FDN nodes.
Also you may missed that to trade with FDN you must have satellite in each sector, where you want trade, including sector where FDN node is located.
And probably it is advanced satellite, never been using regular ones.

[Stealth17]

Hey Zonzo,

Thanks! I knew I was missing something small and it turns out it's probably the AdSat. I just have my factories in the sector with a node but not AdSat yet. Thanks for your help. I'll check later today if it works.

Cheers,
Stealth

[wwdragon]

Hello. I've looked at this mod and it has made me interested, for the first time, in trading beyond game start.

I have run into a problem: I set up my first small node, configured it to buy and sell energy cells, set up Adv Sats and turned it on.

However... I've been running the game for over an hour and it's only bought, then quickly sold the ecells once so far!

Is there somewhere to configure how often it does its buy/sell check? Cause this is ridiculously slow. I'd really like it to trade once per minute real time.

[Zonzo]

FDN will buy ecells only for production, it is not trader. To sell ecells you must have your own SPP working in FDN range.
Basically to sell any thing over FDN, you need produce something.
You can put up Ore mines and/or Teladium Foundries in to FDN range, they make always needed wares. Only then FDN will start buying ecells buy small amounts, just as much is needed for production.

[Stealth17]

I'm noticing something strange at my FDN small node.

I have an ore mine and a silicon mine creating wares supported by FDN. They transfer wares to the FDN node and it's stored there for sale. I noticed stations in sectors around need ore/silicon and are willing to pay the prices that I entered at FDN.

For some reason the node isn't selling though. I do have AdSats in the sectors I want to sell to.

Can anybody help me out?

Thanks,
Stealth

[Zonzo]

Sat in to every sector you want trade (buy or sell), that's how it works.
Also FDN takes time few cycles before it starts selling even if sats are placed.

[DrBullwinkle]

FDN will work on any dock...

FDN is inherently complex, and due to what it does I’m not sure how easy it will be to make it easier without dumbing it down...

...As always thoughts, ideas and inputs are welcome.

I have been thinking about what I might want a new FDN to do. (In addition to being more compatible, of course.)

It is already easy to make a sector-wide complex. That gives the player a nice, vanilla, user interface; no in-sector trades required; and more than enough storage space.

• (TCM, Enhanced Complex Hub, and a globals.txt change to increase the complex connection range to 200,000 km).

So what I really want is:

• - Eliminate the need for Complex Construction Kits (CCK).
  - A universe-wide hub (instead of sector-wide hub).
  - Ability to connect player-owned Trading Stations and EQDs (to mimic additional hubs, and also to allow separate rules and prices).
  - Zero-configuration. Forget satellites and gates (they are not necessary for "normal" traders).

For the above list, I don't care how complex the FDN script is, but I really want *MY* work to be as close to zero as possible. It seems to me that it would be achievable with a single menu choice that connects all unconnected player-owned factories, docks, and mines.

Presto! Instant universal complex. Zero setup.

Do I really need anything more complicated than that?

I am thinking that pricing and sales rules could be set at player-owned Trading Docks and Equipment Docks. Therefore, no need for any FDN configuration there, either. (Maybe)

My hope is that you could make it ultra-simple and, yet, all-encompassing at the same time. There would be near-zero learning curve for the user if the vanilla user interfaces could be used at docks.

A couple of nice-to-haves that might be more challenging:

• - Ability to connect moving ships (for resupply).
  - Ability to connect non-player stations (to completely eliminate transports).

However, those last two will probably require more user-interface to handle the necessary rules.

• I realize that FDN can already do many of those things... except for the zero-configuration part.

[Stealth17]

Sat in to every sector you want trade (buy or sell), that's how it works.
Also FDN takes time few cycles before it starts selling even if sats are placed.

I know, and the thing is: it worked. Right now I've added some more factories and made sure there are sats in the selling-areas, but still no sales.

What's more: my Node ran out of money long ago but my factories keep producing like they keep receiving resources. It looks a little like a bug really.

[Zonzo]

No bugs to report, you doing something wrong. FDN working flawlessly for me.
One thing what you can do, with Commercial Agent set money transfer to 0, then FDN starts using your main account.
It actually took for me also bit time figure out, how it works.

[apricotslice]

I know, and the thing is: it worked. Right now I've added some more factories and made sure there are sats in the selling-areas, but still no sales.

Have you actually enabled selling on the node for each product ?

Not selling is the default. Each product has to be turned on to allow it. And I think you need to set the minimum to keep in stock as well. If minimum is set to zero, it assumes maximum and so wont sell. (if I remember rightly).

[Stealth17]

I know, and the thing is: it worked. Right now I've added some more factories and made sure there are sats in the selling-areas, but still no sales.

Have you actually enabled selling on the node for each product ?

Not selling is the default. Each product has to be turned on to allow it. And I think you need to set the minimum to keep in stock as well. If minimum is set to zero, it assumes maximum and so wont sell. (if I remember rightly).

Did as you recommended, but it didn't work. I also tried setting the price 1 lower than average, but that also didn't help. Right now the node is only sucking up money to provide the factories with resources, but it's not making a dime.

[Logain Abler]

Very strange Stealth17


I've tried to replicate the issue on a test save on my old PC, works fine.

I can't think of any recommendations to make which haven't already been given by Zonzo & apricotslice


LA

[Logain Abler]

FDN will work on any dock...

FDN is inherently complex, and due to what it does I’m not sure how easy it will be to make it easier without dumbing it down...

...As always thoughts, ideas and inputs are welcome.

I have been thinking about what I might want a new FDN to do. (In addition to being more compatible, of course.)

It is already easy to make a sector-wide complex. That gives the player a nice, vanilla, user interface; no in-sector trades required; and more than enough storage space.

• (TCM, Enhanced Complex Hub, and a globals.txt change to increase the complex connection range to 200,000 km).

So what I really want is:

• - Eliminate the need for Complex Construction Kits (CCK).
  - A universe-wide hub (instead of sector-wide hub).
  - Ability to connect player-owned Trading Stations and EQDs (to mimic additional hubs, and also to allow separate rules and prices).
  - Zero-configuration. Forget satellites and gates (they are not necessary for "normal" traders).

For the above list, I don't care how complex the FDN script is, but I really want *MY* work to be as close to zero as possible. It seems to me that it would be achievable with a single menu choice that connects all unconnected player-owned factories, docks, and mines.

Presto! Instant universal complex. Zero setup.

Do I really need anything more complicated than that?

I am thinking that pricing and sales rules could be set at player-owned Trading Docks and Equipment Docks. Therefore, no need for any FDN configuration there, either. (Maybe)

My hope is that you could make it ultra-simple and, yet, all-encompassing at the same time. There would be near-zero learning curve for the user if the vanilla user interfaces could be used at docks.

A couple of nice-to-haves that might be more challenging:

• - Ability to connect moving ships (for resupply).
  - Ability to connect non-player stations (to completely eliminate transports).

However, those last two will probably require more user-interface to handle the necessary rules.

• I realize that FDN can already do many of those things... except for the zero-configuration part.

I'm working on the new menu.

There will be one Distribution Centre using virtual storage, so I would say unlimited (still testing).

If you can see your property so will the Distribution Centre, no Adv Sats required (always catches people out).


The only configuration on the Factories and Docks will be adding them to the network, for Factories you will need to tell it if Products and/or Resources will be FDN managed. I have factories were FDN supplies the resources but I like to keep the product local, especially high end goodies. Same goes for adding to the Network, I have standalone (and I'm sure a lot of people do) stations I leave outside of FDN.

It will supply Docks, but I think you will still need to tell FDN what wares and what volumes to pass/maintain on the Dock.

The first release will not cover Complexes (not sure if I will add this, it just adds to the complexity) and I doubt I'll have the sell & buy up and running, I want to ensure the core element of FDN is solid.



LA


Edit: Dynamic menus will also be out at the start.
Edit2: Once I have virtual storage up and running it may be added to all docks.....

[Stealth17]

Very strange Stealth17


I've tried to replicate the issue on a test save on my old PC, works fine.

I can't think of any recommendations to make which haven't already been given by Zonzo & apricotslice


LA

Thanks for looking into it Logain. I really appreciate it.

Here are my settings. Maybe I really did change a setting somewhere:

- 1 small node in Antigone Memorial
- 7 factories in same sector - 4 Wheat Farm M, 3 Rimes Fact M
- AdSats in all the sectors (within 5 jump radius) I want to sell to
- Good standing with Argons
- All factories are enabled
- Cloth Rimes:
-- Remote Access: On
-- Buy ware: On
-- Sell ware: On
--Max stock level/remote access above level/sell ware above level - not set (tried with value "1" for each, didn't work either)
-- Buy at 152
-- Sell at 265 (already tried lowering price, no joy)

When I first started I had the node and 2 Cloth Rimes facts. It worked fine. Then I added another cloth rimes fact and the wheat farms. Still turned a profit initially, then the node suddenly stopped selling. I thought it was because of prices but they drop after a while. Node didn't pick up selling again.

I have no clue what I did wrong or what went wrong in my game.

Will a reinstal of the mod work? I expect I'll lose my Node, but so be it. At least I can start building complexes again, which would easily alleviate loss of 1 node.

Hope you can help,

Stealth

[Logain Abler]

Very strange Stealth17


I've tried to replicate the issue on a test save on my old PC, works fine.

I can't think of any recommendations to make which haven't already been given by Zonzo & apricotslice


LA

Thanks for looking into it Logain. I really appreciate it.

Here are my settings. Maybe I really did change a setting somewhere:

- 1 small node in Antigone Memorial
- 7 factories in same sector - 4 Wheat Farm M, 3 Rimes Fact M
- AdSats in all the sectors (within 5 jump radius) I want to sell to
- Good standing with Argons
- All factories are enabled
- Cloth Rimes:
-- Remote Access: On
-- Buy ware: On
-- Sell ware: On
--Max stock level/remote access above level/sell ware above level - not set (tried with value "1" for each, didn't work either)
-- Buy at 152
-- Sell at 265 (already tried lowering price, no joy)

When I first started I had the node and 2 Cloth Rimes facts. It worked fine. Then I added another cloth rimes fact and the wheat farms. Still turned a profit initially, then the node suddenly stopped selling. I thought it was because of prices but they drop after a while. Node didn't pick up selling again.

I have no clue what I did wrong or what went wrong in my game.

Will a reinstal of the mod work? I expect I'll lose my Node, but so be it. At least I can start building complexes again, which would easily alleviate loss of 1 node.

Hope you can help,

Stealth

Could you turn on debug and post the results, or email me the file?

LA