[X3LU] Phanon Plus 4.04

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myrmidon
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Post by myrmidon » Sat, 6. Feb 16, 03:02

Thanks for the detailed reply regarding "humble game starts" and Phanon Plus/Revelation Plus installed.

Thinking on what you said I will dive in with both feet and see if I can develop enough of a "mobile economy" to have cash flow, and that can hopefully avoid the sort of capital ship fleet that might be swanning around at day 10. Yikes.

That TL station building early-mid-game path is surely looking pretty good to me at the moment...then to get a M7 for my player ship to go and kill Phanon assets to drain cash and generally harsh Phanon's mojo.

I appreciate the heads up...because trying to hold off one or more Phanon capital ships (plus who knows what sort of support?) that is trying to kill my very first SCH 25 with, say, just my M7 (my traditional mid-game ride), some fighter drones, and a few laser towers would have been futile and likely induce me to pound my keyboard and say naughty things. Even jumping out to switch to an M7 with fresh shields would still be...unlikely to hold them off with my mid-game military.

I might just plonk down an SCH just to see how Phanon attacks it... (I am rubbing my role-playing hands together). Oh wait, that sounds like I could abuse that (I could simply refund the SCH) and use it as an exploit to "lure" or "strand" Phanon fleets and then kill parts of them before the heavies jump away...or jump into their home system and see who's left minding the store...

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Post by myrmidon » Wed, 10. Feb 16, 19:52

I'm now at 31 hours game time, and I've yet to see an upgrade by Phanon...they're still at Tandytech. I get reports of their progress (they are really weak with a pair of TS, which I kill a TS every once in a awhile, including a juicy Nexus). Also I placed a satellite in Sanctuary of Darkness and they didn't kill it.

I have my sat network in place, I have 15 UTs, have 62 marines in training, and just outfitted my first TL and have 30 million in the bank. I'm feeling pretty flash in my military-industrial CEO suite's big leather chair at the moment.

a) Is there a way for me to tell if I installed Phanon Plus correctly and/or whether this mod is actually "running" in my Litcube 1.6.1 build?

b) And/or is there a way for me to force-evolve Phanon to the next stage?

...if I do this, what stage should I put them at to be "on par" with my progress?

thanks

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Joubarbe
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Post by Joubarbe » Wed, 10. Feb 16, 21:33

You're in very early game. If they'd send their hunters now, you would not last long.

myrmidon
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Post by myrmidon » Wed, 10. Feb 16, 23:47

Excellent news!

that a) It sounds like I don't have a busted install and b) that Phanon is about to get busy with me. Time to continue the empire build.

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Post by myrmidon » Thu, 11. Feb 16, 19:44

I've restarted a new game with a clean install due to a very passive OCV (they took a single sector in 31 game hours)...which I suspect means that the Revelation Plus mod wasn't really active.

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Post by myrmidon » Tue, 16. Feb 16, 04:41

Self-inflicted wound. Mea culpa for the dumbest mistake imaginable.

I copied and edited the shortcut for vanilla Litcubes, each time I recently created a mod, and updated the executable path in the shortcut.

BUT I *forgot to update the "start in" path in the shortcut. So the game was always running from the vanilla install folder (and thus never using any mod scripts)

I have taken myself out back and had myself shot. The new me is taking care of business and will report later on how much Phanon and Revelation Plus pushes me around.

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Post by myrmidon » Tue, 16. Feb 16, 06:16

Ok new game and hmmm:

M5 start, hour 3.3, I just got a big bonus that netted 33 million credits
Spoiler
Show
The free Toucan in Menelaus' Frontier was sold at Argon Prime shipyard for 30+ million credits...way more than the ship should have been worth ?!
While flying around in my M5, I noted:

a) In Atreus Clouds, there are about fifteen Phanon fighters moving south. They have a mix of names like "Hunter" and "Escort".

b) In Trinity Sanctum, there are two four-ship Phanon fighter groups (M3/M4s) moving towards me. I few on to Bad Debt and then found a Phanon Nova coming out of a gate and chasing after me.

c) Just being curious, I ran the Menu.PhanonCorpSpy and see that the "Objects" menu is listing 7000+ M4s and M5s respectively.

Phanon's credit balance was 150Million.

In other words, yikes, something seriously out of whack. I created a save game and will keep it for awhile. Time to restart.


_____
edit:

I created a second install and in this case:

1. I installed Revelation Plus mod first. Then Phanon Plus mod second.

- Thus far at hour one, the Menu.PhanonCorpSpy is just showing 17 fighters owned by Phanon in the first hour. I will edit this later once I know more.

- at 3 hours, the Phanon have about 17 M5 (the largest total in a single fighter class) and one hunter-killer squadron of one M3 and five M5/M6, and 9 million credits balance. Seems to be working fine and certainly a scary group for my little M5 player ship.

- at 8 hours, the Phanon have 17 TS !! and 8 M credits in the bank. Quite impressive and serious pressure. I just got an M3 (no turret) that is not enough to do more than harass Phanon's shipping.

This is unlike the install above: where Phanon Plus was installed first, then Revelation Plus second.

myrmidon
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Post by myrmidon » Fri, 26. Feb 16, 12:44

TLDR summary: In my new game, Phanon appears stuck/dormant between generations 1 and 2. What is the cleanest way to restart Phanon at generation 2, if this is possible? I really don't want to restart a new game...but will if I must.

Edit: I'm strongly considering a game restart in which I will leave Phanon entirely alone. Let's see if I can outrace them to deployed capital ships...I can also await the "next version" in case you have something cool planned...

Or given my overall status (see below)...should I advance Phanon to gen 3+ to keep them on par? I estimate that I've gotten about 12 to 24 game time hours without Phanon resistance of any sort.

I wanted to be surprised by this mod-mod so I've purposefully NOT read the feature list...I must say that I liked the changes that I've seen just from Generation 1. I look forward to what the later Phanon generations have planned for me.

_______

Sorry for the longish post:

I had reinstalled and had what appeared to be a normal Phanon Plus/Revelation Plus game.

Given the horror stories that people had about Phanon Plus, even though I only had an M3 available for quite a long time (longer than some of my other starts), I spent quite a bit of time harassing Phanon.
Spoiler
Show
Chiefly by ambushing the singleton mining ships that show up in Goner sectors local to the Phanon HQ. This alone really handicapped Phanon gen 1 as they would just constantly repurchase miners, that I would once again trash.

For a later mod-mod version: i would suggest some of those nasty laser towers to be installed within Phanon's home system at the jump point. Otherwise the player can just a) attack a miner and b) await the miner to jump back to the gate in Sanctuary of Darkness and try to slowly fly back to HQ via the jump gate, and kill it easily.

And also I was able to install several sats in Phanon's home system without much response. This is "un-sat" and gives the player too much info on what Phanon is up to IMHO.

And/or give the Miners quantum jumpgate extension.

Given that the Phanon TS all seem to jump away quite effectively in the early game (until the player gets a ship with a badass enough laser array and develops a viable ambush strategy):

Attacking miners (who never had any escort as much as I recall) or ambushing the (somewhat rare) Phanon hunter squadrons were the *only* effective early game pressure I could figure out how to muster. So perhaps the above suggestion would affect balance. I definitely felt the pressure from NOT being able to whittle down Phanon's amazingly large early game UT fleet.

I found the laser towers to be a confounding annoyance until I obtained a buddy or two to deal with them. In retrospect I consider these are a nice part of Phanon's early defenses...much as I grumbled after trying to solo them.

up until:

Day 2 hour 6 or so: I clean out the Phanon system, including what appears to be a scratch built squadron, but left the undefended HQ intact as I to repair and outfit the captured Phanon Raptor.

Since I then suspected that Phanon was selling off stations to fund these response forces...I send my small squadron to then go around and begin destroying Phanon stations. There is little or no response or new ship building from Phanon...while I hunt Phanon's UT fleet until they have @seven left. I dimly recall in the few times I peeked with the spy script, Phanon was sort of stuck, attempting to buy a TL. They never did get that third TL purchased. Not sure why Tandytech CEO didn't get fired for non-performance...I was purposely doing as much damage to Tandytech as I could to "force a generation upgrade".

Once I had Phanon down to @6 stations...Tandytech does indeed throw in the towel.

Then....nothing. It is now day 3, hour 8, and I'm rolling along, have an SCH 50, a capped Exterminator, the Raptor now has 28 fighters (all claimed M3s to give an idea of how long it has been since Phanon was active), 100 marines, 70 UTs, an M7M, and about to buy another SCH 50, etc.etc.

...but am wondering if the Phanon scripting is "stuck"...the next generation (2) hasn't shown up in a looooong time.

I ran the default spy script and see that they have 1.4 million credits and have these key stats showing at day 3, hour 8:

credit balance: about 1.4 million
generation: 1
generation time: 35
shop mode: HQ Danger Zone

StopBanningMe7_III
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Post by StopBanningMe7_III » Sun, 28. Feb 16, 07:38

Does this mod give Phanon TS ships the ability to magically accelerate (sideways!) out of firing range every few seconds, or is that default in LUV? Or is my game perhaps borked somehow?

It's occurred to me that they could be bouncing off of their own fighter drones (do they get those for free?), although that seems unlikely.

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Post by Wanabe » Mon, 29. Feb 16, 05:13

StopBanningMe7_III wrote:Does this mod give Phanon TS ships the ability to magically accelerate (sideways!) out of firing range every few seconds, or is that default in LUV? Or is my game perhaps borked somehow?

It's occurred to me that they could be bouncing off of their own fighter drones (do they get those for free?), although that seems unlikely.
This mod gives the Phanon TS the capability of jumping out if the playership is too close to them. It does not intentionally add any ability for them to randomly accelerate. If you are firing at the TS it is possible your attack is knocking them around. Or perhaps the Phanon TS is too close to another object and bounce is moving the TS away to avoid collision. If it's neither of those then I'm not sure what you're experiencing.
myrmidon wrote:BUT I *forgot to update the "start in" path in the shortcut. So the game was always running from the vanilla install folder (and thus never using any mod scripts)
Glad you got it sorted, I'm sure it was very very confusing. :P
myrmidon wrote:Just being curious, I ran the Menu.PhanonCorpSpy and see that the "Objects" menu is listing 7000+ M4s and M5s respectively.
This is unlike the install above: where Phanon Plus was installed first, then Revelation Plus second.
I've never experienced the above issue before but that definitely is not intended. Do you remember if they had any other ship classes quite excessively high?
myrmidon wrote:I ran the default spy script and see that they have 1.4 million credits and have these key stats showing at day 3, hour 8:

credit balance: about 1.4 million
generation: 1
generation time: 35
shop mode: HQ Danger Zone
The shop mode listed there is definitely an important factor to note. They're supposed to switch to "HQ Danger Zone" when their HQ is in direct danger (taken shield damage). When this happens they'll pretty much stop trying to build up their economy. After a time, when their HQ shield has regenerated to a certain level they're supposed to change their shopmode back to normal again. Perhaps there is a bug causing Phanon to never exit. If not a bug perhaps relying on the shield to regenerate back is too slow. Do you still have a savefile with them in this unproductive state? That would help a lot. Also, I *think* if you scroll towards "shop mode" within the Phanonspy menu and push enter it may change the shopmode to something else aswell.
myrmidon wrote:TLDR summary: In my new game, Phanon appears stuck/dormant between generations 1 and 2. What is the cleanest way to restart Phanon at generation 2, if this is possible? I really don't want to restart a new game...but will if I must.
One way is to simply put them out of their misery via traditional means. Another method may be to turn Phanon off in the AL menu and then turn them back on after editing the Phanon T file with the starting generation you'd like them in. With your current assets starting Phanon in at least generation 3 would probably be appropriate for the assets you have.

Thanks for the other feedback and suggestions aswell. You made a good choice not reading the feature list. Discovering something in game vs reading some list can be quite a different experience. I have been fairly occupied lately so I have not been working on any updates to my mods here but I can make time for reproducible bugs.

myrmidon
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Post by myrmidon » Mon, 29. Feb 16, 12:01

StopBanningMe7_III wrote:
Does this mod give Phanon TS ships the ability to magically accelerate (sideways!) out of firing range every few seconds, or is that default in LUV? Or is my game perhaps borked somehow?

It's occurred to me that they could be bouncing off of their own fighter drones (do they get those for free?), although that seems unlikely.
If you see that the enemy is magically doing a 180 degree without losing speed, that is bounce AFAIK.

...this is infrequent, but mostly happens for me mostly near stations when I'm doing a "station under attack!" race mission. Not only is bounce going to get them to keep away from the stations, but sometimes my well-timed frag bomb launch will be magically dodged as if it was an object!. In fact I can see them sometimes bounce away from my aim cursor. The fairly consistent workaround is to go with boresight fire at closer range (not point-blank). As my fantasy girl said in the Matrix Movie: DODGE THIS.

However bounce is far too valuable a feature to turn off IMHO...those furballs of 20+ fighters I go wading into...and not one collides with me no matter what crazy moves I'm doing...is well worth the trade. Was never worth the risk in vanilla X3TC and worth installing Litcubes alone for.
I've never experienced the above issue before but that definitely is not intended. Do you remember if they had any other ship classes quite excessively high?
Been many days of X3LU since then...hmm...best I can recall, it was only the m3/m4/m5...At the time, I didn't know enough about the spy script...I wish I had peeked at the shop mode and the other ship stats. I was more interested in why my sector had 80 hunter/escorts converging on me from three different gates!

The only thing I can recall "unique" about the above particular busted install: Phanon Plus was installed first, then Revelation Plus second, on top on LU 1.6.2. I've been installing Phanon Plus as the very last mod every time afterwards.
Do you still have a savefile with them in this unproductive state? That would help a lot. Also, I *think* if you scroll towards "shop mode" within the Phanonspy menu and push enter it may change the shopmode to something else aswell.
I archived all of the saves/autosaves and kept the install folder as well. I can upload the saves to whatever host you want or make a tar and PM you the dropbox link).

Yeah I saw that there is a way to change the generation, shop mode, credits, etc. within the script, but didn't think that was a "clean" way to get Phanon restarted.

In any case, I'm deep into a Mayhem/Phanon Plus/Revelation Plus game in which a) Phanon Plus was installed last and b) I'm leaving Phanon pretty much alone until I can completely stomp their gen 1 HQ in a few passes. The only damage I've done thus far in 1 day, 8 hours of play: destroyed three hunter squadrons and one station agent. I'm also curious as to whether gen 1 will get smart and evolve once I get one or more M2s.

I meant to keep gen 1 clean but they annoyed me when a hunter took a shot at my Orca. That is NOT nice.


Also I should conclude that I suspect that Phanon Plus has a "let's sell stuff off and try to survive" built in behavior, more than vanilla Phanon. This may be a potential weakness, especially when gen 1 suffers the inevitable (see spoiler below) by decent players.


Uh oh, here I go with late night too-long-posts about cool X3LU mod-mods!

As a feature request and other blathering (and damn my virtual soul for suggesting to make Phanon Plus harder on players for gen 1):
Spoiler
Show

TLDR summary: Let the player know that it has gotten big enough to scare gen 1 away...and bring on gen 2 asap when the player has an M7. Else each Phanon Plus generation should give up when enough of the HQ defenses are shredded.

a) Phanon needs to throw in towel when there is nobody guarding HQ...the player can camp there (or leave and come back) and await whatever gets built...milk that generation for game days...and not fire a single shot at the HQ.

b) if Phanon Plus gen 1 sees that the character jumps way ahead, perhaps it should throw in towel on current generation "quick fast" (note again, I have not, and will not, read the feature list, as I want Phanon to surprise me). Please forgive if this is already on the list/implemented.

Somehow I did something (or got a bad series of events) that got Phanon Plus "stuck" when it should have given up...the "emergency squadron was used up" and HQ was still standing. But no income, and required the player to reduce the stations greatly before gen 1 "gave up".

The first sign that Phanon gen 1 is in deep trouble: the player has one or two M7s (likely an M7 for fighter killing and an M7M for boarding). The implication is that the player has one or more capped corvettes and a squad of M3s as well (for station killing once the gen 1 squadrons are history?).

A decent player can kill so much of the HQ defenders with a single M7 that it really should force gen 1 to surrender, even if the defending M1 and HQ are left intact. The M1 cannot be everywhere at once, and by that time the player has a weapon array in whatever ship he/she has that can kill Phanon TS in the first pass. And especially, lure the M1 far away in their home sector, then jump back and cap a TL...etc.

Otherwise the big assets that gen 1 has are just awaiting capture by the decent player. (the TLs, and especially that juicy M1 which we can drain of fighters with the M7).

I haven't seen gen 2 so cannot comment on whether that generation can withstand multiple M7, potentially with a captured capital supporting as well...

From what you said above: the acquisition of an M2 by the player is likely a sign that gen 2 may not withstand the player attack. So if player gets M2...gen 2 should retire?


A comment about a first encounter with Mayhem and Phanon Plus/Revelation Plus...sheesh:

Phanon Plus is using Mayhem as a "shield" for its machinations...this is diabolical. I can only get at a portion of their stations/TS etc. and their TS, stations, and and hunter squadrons are well hidden in the cloud of red that is Mayhem. Had no clue that a hunter squadron was around until my Orca started complaining. And taking care of Phanon gets bumped way down the list given that I find UTs are drastically limited by all the unfriendly sectors.

I found a great deal in income pressure in the early game...I had to buy a corvette (oh the shame) for the first time in X3LU instead being able to sprint to an M7. Well okay, actually that Hyperion was just too sexy to ignore.

I'm 1 day 8 hours in, and haven't even mapped any of the Omicron Channel yet...much less the entire galaxy...so the OCV are completely unmonitored/unhindered and not even on the horizon.

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Post by StopBanningMe7_III » Fri, 4. Mar 16, 01:01

I'm having a strange problem in my game. It seems that the "tick" script has simply stop doing anything. The ticks do not count down. Phanon just does nothing, ever. I even restarted them from scratch by stopping the script and starting it again. It worked for a while, but eventually it just stopped ticking again. Should I repeat this routine and start them at generation 2? Will it restart if I wipe them out?

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Post by Litcube » Fri, 4. Mar 16, 01:18

StopBanningMe7_III wrote:I'm having a strange problem in my game. It seems that the "tick" script has simply stop doing anything. The ticks do not count down. Phanon just does nothing, ever. I even restarted them from scratch by stopping the script and starting it again. It worked for a while, but eventually it just stopped ticking again. Should I repeat this routine and start them at generation 2? Will it restart if I wipe them out?
Check your global tasks in the script menu. How many do you have?

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Post by dizzy » Fri, 4. Mar 16, 02:24

With the latest check Wannabe added to the code it should never be running more than one Tick at the same time and that's _why_ it stops functioning, because when (for some unknown) reason the Tick script hangs, another one cannot start until the hanged script finishes, which never does thus the bug reported.

Previously, before the check was added, Tick scripts would hang and add up in the global task list but at least new ones would start and Phanon would still function. Now when a Tick script hangs everything stalls.
X3LU 1.5.2/1.7.0 Youtube series with: IEX 1.5b + LUVi, SIaF r7 (previously also used Phanon Plus 4.02, Revelation Plus 1.04, Diverse Game Starts - LU Edition)
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Post by StopBanningMe7_III » Fri, 4. Mar 16, 10:33

Litcube wrote:
StopBanningMe7_III wrote:I'm having a strange problem in my game. It seems that the "tick" script has simply stop doing anything. The ticks do not count down. Phanon just does nothing, ever. I even restarted them from scratch by stopping the script and starting it again. It worked for a while, but eventually it just stopped ticking again. Should I repeat this routine and start them at generation 2? Will it restart if I wipe them out?
Check your global tasks in the script menu. How many do you have?
Tasks pop in and out periodically, but I see al.phanon.main and al.revelation.main relatively frequently.
memeics wrote:With the latest check Wannabe added to the code it should never be running more than one Tick at the same time and that's _why_ it stops functioning, because when (for some unknown) reason the Tick script hangs, another one cannot start until the hanged script finishes, which never does thus the bug reported.

Previously, before the check was added, Tick scripts would hang and add up in the global task list but at least new ones would start and Phanon would still function. Now when a Tick script hangs everything stalls.
I'm not sure what kind of backroom drama might be going on here, but since you mentioned a check I looked at the script, commented out this whole section:

Code: Select all

* $AreweRunningAlready = get global variable: name='PhanonCorp.CheckTickerRunning'
* if $AreweRunningAlready == 1
* display subtitle text: text=`Tick called again` duration=500 ms
* write to player logbook: printf: fmt=`Tick already running, dont do it`, $Value, $Value, $Value, $Value, $Value
* return null
* let`s not pile on these calls
* end
and reran the script (setting the two required arguments as "null", since I have no idea what these are supposed to be). I immediately got the between generation vow for revenge message from Phanon and the "time to next generation" ticks began counting down properly again. In other words, it seems to be working. I have no idea what implications this may have elsewhere, but it's definitely worth considering dumping this bit of code.

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Post by dizzy » Fri, 4. Mar 16, 18:34

Huh, backroom drama? Do you simply mean context? Maybe you should read my previous bug report here:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 69#4572669

Disabling the variable mutex will now go back to that issue I described above. You will end up with tons of global al.Phanon.Main global tasks after some time. The problem is that for unknown reasons al.Phanon.Main hangs sometimes. Wannabe added a variable mutex to avoid starting a new script when one is already running so to not have many tasks adding up like I had. That results in the problem you encountered when the script hangs, nothing happens anymore, Phanon seems stalled. Removing the variable mutex gets things going again but you end up with the problem I previously reported, like they say... name your poison.
X3LU 1.5.2/1.7.0 Youtube series with: IEX 1.5b + LUVi, SIaF r7 (previously also used Phanon Plus 4.02, Revelation Plus 1.04, Diverse Game Starts - LU Edition)
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Post by StopBanningMe7_III » Fri, 4. Mar 16, 22:17

For some reason I thought you meant there had been some kind of disagreement. My apologies.

Obviously I'd rather have it work than not, but that is a bit odd. Would it be possible to have some kind of a watchman script that periodically kills any rogue hanging scripts? Or maybe just kills all instances of a script every now and then and restarts it?

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Post by dizzy » Fri, 4. Mar 16, 23:00

Besides that not actually solving the bug (and may create new ones because a script written assuming that it only executes one instance at a time can easily leave some corrupted state around if killed before it completes), I think there is no scripting mechanism to kill global tasks :(

You will have the option to kill them manually (press Backspace on them in the Script Editor interface) if you see them stuck but I think an E/I may be a better way to deal with that issue.

All that said, it's not that huge of a problem, if it does end up breaking anything too terribly you can simply E/I. Even with this bug I personally think Phanon Plus offers enough benefits to risk using it.
X3LU 1.5.2/1.7.0 Youtube series with: IEX 1.5b + LUVi, SIaF r7 (previously also used Phanon Plus 4.02, Revelation Plus 1.04, Diverse Game Starts - LU Edition)
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Post by miycu » Sat, 5. Mar 16, 19:39

Hi,

I'm playing Phanon Plus with XR-M installed and I'm noticing Phanon is getting a huge amount of money at the start(between 400 and 500 million) then immediately spending this on hunters which absolutely destroy any start that isn't an M6.

Is this intended? It seems to me the hunter behavior shouldn't start until the players had time to at least get something to defend themselves with or even something to defend apart from advanced sats and starter stations. The jump drives on every trader just make this worse as you can't even hurt them back(I've resorted to ramming their TSs in the past to stop them escaping to a sector I can't see/have bad rep with. It seems like there should be harder limits on when these behaviours can start rather than relying on a player starting across the map and maybe having time to come up with a defense.

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El.
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Post by El. » Sat, 12. Mar 16, 23:57

Brilliant mod, can't imagine LU without it – vanilla Phanom is realy sleepy fly.
Ship gallery
LU 1.7.0: Offline Ship Compendium, Larger Font, Player Guide RUS – Google Drive, Mediafire

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