[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b

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Pax Empyrean
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Pax Empyrean » Mon, 29. Oct 18, 16:03

Joubarbe wrote:
Mon, 29. Oct 18, 08:36
@Pax Empyrean: Dock Agents with "Trade" option never bought from your own stations. If you've seen them buying stuff from your own stations, that's the real bug.
Okay, then yeah; I've seen that happening. Or some other weird thing; my Cahoona Meatsteak complexes are getting money somehow, but I don't allow NPC traders, I have no UTs running, and they've got a jump range of 0, so either they are selling to my own ships, or they are selling to NPCs.

That said, I would kill for an "empire trade" option. "If you need resource X, go buy it from any of my stations within jump range." That kind of thing would be fully transferable in presets (like the Local option, which I'm really enjoying) since it's not location specific. It would also simplify inter-sector logistics in a big way; instead of setting up new orders at my existing sectors to feed resources to a new sector every time, I can just add more resource production/consumption and let the trade AI move those goods around as needed. As long as production is high enough within the region defined by jump range, I could add sectors or different kinds of production and have it integrate seamlessly into my logistics network.

As it stands, I have to try to forecast future consumption and set up supply chains accordingly. It ends up being a feast or famine kind of thing if I get it wrong, with my DAs burying one sanctuary in resources while others end up with shortages. I could try to rectify this by creating spillover DA jobs where every sanctuary has a threshold beyond which they will try to supply every other sanctuary, but this results in exponential growth in DA jobs and is a ton of work anyway. It would be a lot easier to let the trading AI handle this so the player can focus on higher level economic planning instead of micromanaging every route.

amadeok
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by amadeok » Mon, 29. Oct 18, 17:38

Hi
Sorry for dumb questions but, how can i build a station? How do i repair a ship?

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elvin-nsk
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by elvin-nsk » Mon, 29. Oct 18, 18:58

Pax Empyrean wrote:
Mon, 29. Oct 18, 16:03
Or some other weird thing; my Cahoona Meatsteak complexes are getting money somehow, but I don't allow NPC traders, I have no UTs running, and they've got a jump range of 0, so either they are selling to my own ships, or they are selling to NPCs.
I've got same thing. Also in some of sanctuaries. They have money from nowhere from time to time, with no DA trading, and station trading options off.

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elvin-nsk
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by elvin-nsk » Mon, 29. Oct 18, 19:03

amadeok wrote:
Mon, 29. Oct 18, 17:38
Sorry for dumb questions but, how can i build a station? How do i repair a ship?
You can build stations in your own sectors from within sanctuary, and you can also reapir your ships there, if you take "hangar" perk.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by amadeok » Mon, 29. Oct 18, 22:25

Hi
I started to play the mod it seems really good. However i'm not very fond of how the i lose reputation automatically with all races as time passes. Is there any way to disable this?
Can someone explain how do stations work? Like can i have a bunch of stations in one sector? Can i connect them togheter like in X3LU?
thanks

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Joubarbe » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 09:20

You don't lose reputation automatically. Make sure you have 2.7.6, that's an old feature.
Read the encyclopedia in-game. There is a lot of information in there.

Cardoyle
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Cardoyle » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 10:49

@amadeok

There is a good few informative posts around pages 367/368 of this thread also, which i found helpful when starting off a few days ago.

Kadatherion
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Kadatherion » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 18:22

Having a lot of fun with the game edited as mentioned a few days ago: the pace is indeed more in line with my tastes, and it lets me take things slowly and still don't have to fear of remaining without xenons or pirates to have fun with (well, against) when I'm ready to deploy the big guns. I've just run into what seems to be a bug related to company missions though.

Basically, I got a rescue missions from Markus corp out of thin air: literally, while I'm parked in space, as if I had landed on a station and taken on the people to bring to another station. I have no people in my cargo, yet if I land on the target station the "mission" registers as completed and I get those 100 rep points that trigger the story campaign. Unfortunately I can't easily attach a savegame, since I've edited my tships and it would most likely crash on load on a "vanilla" Mayhem, as I've changed a few weapon loadouts and cargo capacities, I'll try to describe the event as accurately as possible with pics.

1- I'm in Tokyo Lambda, setaing for a bit to look at my Dock Agents in the nearby home sector to verify the jump beacon I've just dropped to quicken the route between my sanctuary and two mines is working fine: suddenly I get the mission message as if I had landed on a station with the people to rescue. 2 - Yet, as you can see, there actually is no rescue mission active at the moment. 3 - Nor the mission I've somehow taken has spawned the usual people in my cargo bay. 4 - I land on the target station in Cerberus Alpha, the mission completes as if it was given and done properly. 5 - I get 100 rep points with Markus, which triggers the Mayhem plot with the Argon as my (future) enemies This basically makes it so I can't land on that station in Cerberus Alpha unless I want to trigger the plot (which I don't, as I want to choose another race as my antagonist in the story). The bug per se is minor, but indeed odd. BTW, is there a way to get out of the plot once started, and redo it for another company? In this case, can I complete the mission (so I don't have to worry about remembering to avoid Cerberus Alpha), then interrupt the plot with Markus corp somehow, so I can restart it for another company (if at all possible)?

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Joubarbe » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 19:27

You can't change the enemy faction of the main plot. I'll look into this bug.

WuDeN
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by WuDeN » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 20:33

Kadatherion wrote:
Tue, 30. Oct 18, 18:22
Having a lot of fun with the game edited as mentioned a few days ago: the pace is indeed more in line with my tastes, and it lets me take things slowly and still don't have to fear of remaining without xenons or pirates to have fun with (well, against) when I'm ready to deploy the big guns. I've just run into what seems to be a bug related to company missions though.

Basically, I got a rescue missions from Markus corp out of thin air: literally, while I'm parked in space, as if I had landed on a station and taken on the people to bring to another station. I have no people in my cargo, yet if I land on the target station the "mission" registers as completed and I get those 100 rep points that trigger the story campaign. Unfortunately I can't easily attach a savegame, since I've edited my tships and it would most likely crash on load on a "vanilla" Mayhem, as I've changed a few weapon loadouts and cargo capacities, I'll try to describe the event as accurately as possible with pics.

1- I'm in Tokyo Lambda, setaing for a bit to look at my Dock Agents in the nearby home sector to verify the jump beacon I've just dropped to quicken the route between my sanctuary and two mines is working fine: suddenly I get the mission message as if I had landed on a station with the people to rescue. 2 - Yet, as you can see, there actually is no rescue mission active at the moment. 3 - Nor the mission I've somehow taken has spawned the usual people in my cargo bay. 4 - I land on the target station in Cerberus Alpha, the mission completes as if it was given and done properly. 5 - I get 100 rep points with Markus, which triggers the Mayhem plot with the Argon as my (future) enemies This basically makes it so I can't land on that station in Cerberus Alpha unless I want to trigger the plot (which I don't, as I want to choose another race as my antagonist in the story). The bug per se is minor, but indeed odd. BTW, is there a way to get out of the plot once started, and redo it for another company? In this case, can I complete the mission (so I don't have to worry about remembering to avoid Cerberus Alpha), then interrupt the plot with Markus corp somehow, so I can restart it for another company (if at all possible)?
I've done the same thing and I'm having so much fun. I'm also a turtler lol I just wish I could increase the number of buildable factories in a player owned sector (I don't suppose you've run into that variable ? Can't find it) and to reactivate the tractor beam.. Although smashing asteroids together doesn't interest me I like the notion of being able to move an asteroid to my sector.

Also the Saturn complexes.. I figure a way to balance them out is just make them super expensive. (Sorry @Joubarbe lol I know this is breaking your heart haha)

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Joubarbe » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 20:48

You'll never solve any gameplay flaws in the X series by "making it super expensive".

Pax Empyrean
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Pax Empyrean » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 21:47

Joubarbe wrote:
Tue, 30. Oct 18, 20:48
You'll never solve any gameplay flaws in the X series by "making it super expensive".
Exactly. There is no resource price point that can't be blown away with an infinite-capacity complex.

I've been toying with the idea of reducing sector support limits down to 4 and reducing material costs for ships/items proportionately. Fewer transports means fewer traffic jams, and trade would be relatively more valuable. My main hangup is that stations that produce finished goods (satellites, disintegrator rifles, energy cells, etc) would take up a relatively larger amount of infrastructure capacity, and you'd effectively be getting more minerals from asteroids and mobile mining. If satellites, warheads, and disintegrator rifles were all single-unit complexes it would keep things even in that regard.

Mostly I'm just looking for ways to handle the flow of goods without getting traffic jams that arise when trying to make central storehouses for specific goods (because fully distributed resource chains are a pain in the ass). An Empire Trade option for dock orders would fix this, but in the absence of something like that reducing the absolute volume of goods and the subsequent number of transports is another way to go about alleviating the traffic problems.

Another way to alleviate this, without setting up Empire Trade dock orders, would be to allow for more than one target per dock order. So if resource a resource gets below the specified threshold, send one dock agent out to sanctuary X, Y, or Z to get more. The closest we can get to this right now is to set up a separate order for each sanctuary, which can result in multiple ships being sent out. Empire Trade dock orders would still be better than this, but... not sure what you think about that idea.

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Joubarbe » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 23:00

I often use SA when I want an empire trade agent. What would be the difference? If I do this, it must be clear for everyone.

It would be very poor performance to make Empire trade agents synchronized with each other, so I'm not sure the benefits of DAs would apply. Hence my question: why not SA? And maybe I'll improve or rewrite them.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Kadatherion » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 23:39

WuDeN wrote:
Tue, 30. Oct 18, 20:33

I've done the same thing and I'm having so much fun. I'm also a turtler lol I just wish I could increase the number of buildable factories in a player owned sector (I don't suppose you've run into that variable ? Can't find it) and to reactivate the tractor beam.. Although smashing asteroids together doesn't interest me I like the notion of being able to move an asteroid to my sector.

Also the Saturn complexes.. I figure a way to balance them out is just make them super expensive. (Sorry @Joubarbe lol I know this is breaking your heart haha)
You sure can change the sector stats to edit research/factory limit et cetera. Look here

Code: Select all

$sector = [Unknown Sector Gamma]
$sector-> set local variable: name='mayhem_secStatsPeople' value=100
$sector-> set local variable: name='mayhem_secStatsResearch' value=100
$sector-> set local variable: name='mayhem_secStatsBreakthrough' value=10
$sector-> set local variable: name='mayhem_secStatsSupport' value=15
return null
You can make a quick script like this (from inside the game or Xstudio) and manually run it in game. The number of factories is mayhem_secStatsSupport, the other ones should be self explanatory. It's similar to what I've done myself to have a "capital" sector (where I then apply the super-sanctuary ascension reward) that's completely self sufficient for ship building and basic needs. Research especially stays super slow if you confine yourself into 1-3 sectors (which is my plan: one for ship building, then 2 smaller ones for weapon building and marine training, and then have fun for a while influencing and participating in other races' wars before really waging wars of conquest of my own when I'm ready to, basically, end my game), so it isn't super "cheaty" (although it still is quite different from Mayhem's basic concept).

For asteroids if you really want an asteroid on a specific sector that has none you could simply use Cycrow's cheat package: otherwise Mayhem is supposed to have those asteroids placed in a way you'll really want to use a jump beacon to make the trip shorter for your agents, and the Plutarch system kind of makes that concept moot. Same goes for the Saturn Complexes: they would make the sanctuary mechanic completely pointless. If you make them super expensive you just... postpone it, but sooner or later you'd have little to no use for the sanctuaries, they are just two opposite approaches at the logistics game.

WuDeN
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by WuDeN » Tue, 30. Oct 18, 23:58

Joubarbe wrote:
Tue, 30. Oct 18, 20:48
You'll never solve any gameplay flaws in the X series by "making it super expensive".
Aww really ? That sucks

WuDeN
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by WuDeN » Wed, 31. Oct 18, 00:00

Kadatherion wrote:
Tue, 30. Oct 18, 23:39
WuDeN wrote:
Tue, 30. Oct 18, 20:33

I've done the same thing and I'm having so much fun. I'm also a turtler lol I just wish I could increase the number of buildable factories in a player owned sector (I don't suppose you've run into that variable ? Can't find it) and to reactivate the tractor beam.. Although smashing asteroids together doesn't interest me I like the notion of being able to move an asteroid to my sector.

Also the Saturn complexes.. I figure a way to balance them out is just make them super expensive. (Sorry @Joubarbe lol I know this is breaking your heart haha)
You sure can change the sector stats to edit research/factory limit et cetera. Look here

Code: Select all

$sector = [Unknown Sector Gamma]
$sector-> set local variable: name='mayhem_secStatsPeople' value=100
$sector-> set local variable: name='mayhem_secStatsResearch' value=100
$sector-> set local variable: name='mayhem_secStatsBreakthrough' value=10
$sector-> set local variable: name='mayhem_secStatsSupport' value=15
return null
You can make a quick script like this (from inside the game or Xstudio) and manually run it in game. The number of factories is mayhem_secStatsSupport, the other ones should be self explanatory. It's similar to what I've done myself to have a "capital" sector (where I then apply the super-sanctuary ascension reward) that's completely self sufficient for ship building and basic needs. Research especially stays super slow if you confine yourself into 1-3 sectors (which is my plan: one for ship building, then 2 smaller ones for weapon building and marine training, and then have fun for a while influencing and participating in other races' wars before really waging wars of conquest of my own when I'm ready to, basically, end my game), so it isn't super "cheaty" (although it still is quite different from Mayhem's basic concept).

For asteroids if you really want an asteroid on a specific sector that has none you could simply use Cycrow's cheat package: otherwise Mayhem is supposed to have those asteroids placed in a way you'll really want to use a jump beacon to make the trip shorter for your agents, and the Plutarch system kind of makes that concept moot. Same goes for the Saturn Complexes: they would make the sanctuary mechanic completely pointless. If you make them super expensive you just... postpone it, but sooner or later you'd have little to no use for the sanctuaries, they are just two opposite approaches at the logistics game.
Nah too much. I've done enough editing already. Any more and I think it's going to lose essence. I love the difficulty, just wanted more features and a slower pace is all.

On a sidenote I highly recommend (on top of all the other compatible LU mods listed) is this graphical overhaul not sure if you guys know about this or if I'm behind heh. But works beautifully so far.
http://sfx.thelazy.net/games/preset/4570/

Pax Empyrean
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Pax Empyrean » Wed, 31. Oct 18, 06:31

Joubarbe wrote:
Tue, 30. Oct 18, 23:00
I often use SA when I want an empire trade agent. What would be the difference? If I do this, it must be clear for everyone.

It would be very poor performance to make Empire trade agents synchronized with each other, so I'm not sure the benefits of DAs would apply. Hence my question: why not SA? And maybe I'll improve or rewrite them.
I might be missing something here. It is my understanding that SA will only drop their products off at the sanctuary or stations that need them within their home sector, but will acquire inputs from any station within specified jump range. Is there a way to configure them (or my other sanctuaries, presumably) so that station agents will drop their goods off at other sanctuaries on an as-needed basis?

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Joubarbe » Wed, 31. Oct 18, 08:45

So what you want is an agent that takes a product from your stations and distribute it to the Sanctuaries in need of that product? If so, you want an additional layer of automation that would need a few other options that would be quite hard to implement.

What would be easier to do is to make SAs look for all your sanctuaries and stations instead of only local ones (homebase sector). So it would take products from its homebase factory, then distribute across your empire. That would not be the default behavior though.

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elvin-nsk
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by elvin-nsk » Wed, 31. Oct 18, 10:28

Joubarbe wrote:
Wed, 31. Oct 18, 08:45
What would be easier to do is to make SAs look for all your sanctuaries and stations instead of only local ones (homebase sector). So it would take products from its homebase factory, then distribute across your empire.
I use SA on Solar Plants, and they do exactly as you just said: they took cell and distribute it across entrie empire. They doesn't feed non-local sanctuaries, only stations, and it seems they have priority for local sanctuary, as I noticed.

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.7.6

Post by Joubarbe » Wed, 31. Oct 18, 10:30

You're right, they do distribute to all stations, then local Sanctuary if no stations found, then they sell if the Sanctuary doesn't want it.

EDIT: fixed description:
The Station Agent software allows a ship to manage the wares of its homebased factory. The ship will first acquire needed resources either by fetching them from any of your factories or any of your Sanctuaries, or by buying them from NPC stations, then it will distribute products to any of your factories or the Sanctuary local to its homebase. If none found, the Station Agent will sell the products to NPC stations. Import and export thresholds from both the factory and the Sanctuary are regarded in the process.

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