[Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

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XenonArchitect7
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by XenonArchitect7 » Thu, 8. Aug 19, 02:09

No worries! Thanks for your willingness to help. I run into the same problems with SWLU all the time, where people think a Litcube quirk/bug is due to SWLU instead. I don't expect everyone to know 100% of Mayhem's vast feature list.

When you mention 3D mode, are you referring to the live camera feed mode for advanced satellites, where you can look downward through the map screen and see the sector fully rendered? Or are you talking about selecting a position to place a sanctuary? You can move a station's deploy position with numpad 8,4,6,2. In vanilla/Litcube you could also rotate it with numpad 7,9,1,3 before placing it as well. I don't know if you can do that in Mayhem because I think station placement is done through scripts rather than the vanilla system when you deploy from a TL.

MattTheDamon
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by MattTheDamon » Thu, 8. Aug 19, 03:25

Its for the sanctuary and stations. When you go to place them and hit the camera button. Yeah I was meaning the 7,9,3,1 rotation. So yeah I guess I never tried that in mayhem even tho I knew about it. On this playthru I was wanting better placement of my stations so I went to try it. Sounds like its normal tho so sorry for that.

temetvince
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by temetvince » Thu, 8. Aug 19, 05:00

MattTheDamon wrote:
Thu, 8. Aug 19, 03:25
Its for the sanctuary and stations. When you go to place them and hit the camera button. Yeah I was meaning the 7,9,3,1 rotation. So yeah I guess I never tried that in mayhem even tho I knew about it. On this playthru I was wanting better placement of my stations so I went to try it. Sounds like its normal tho so sorry for that.
That is broken in vanilla mayhem as well. Dang, feels weird to say vanilla on the forum of a mod of a mod of a mod. :D

XenonArchitect7, I played this last night and am about to start again tonight. Awesome work. Starting with the normal race ships makes me want to sell them asap to get the star wars ships, though.

Been looking forward to exploring this mod more all day.

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Joubarbe
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Joubarbe » Thu, 8. Aug 19, 07:58

- You can buy used ships from Companies in Mayhem. It's from 2.9.0 IIRC (vanilla ship selling "missions" have been removed).
- Rotation only works when you build a station from the vanilla system, which is dropping a station from a ship. Then you've got a hardcoded interface in which you can see a "ghost" version of your future station. Impossible to do with the Sanctuary system.

Sinnerman49
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Sinnerman49 » Thu, 8. Aug 19, 20:50

My first time checking out the SW ships for X3 - amazing, cheated in an ISD on a separate clean install and that's pretty epic.

Question: I'm assuming a new gamestart is required, as in, I can't just install this over an existing LU Mayhem playthrough and expect it to work fine.

Normal for some models to have no textures? Spawned at Imperial YT-2400 and it was un-textured.

Thanks again for doing this, really looking forward to a stable/balanced version!

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XenonArchitect7
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by XenonArchitect7 » Thu, 8. Aug 19, 21:24

Missing textures are certainly a bug. Although the YT-2400 is one of the poorest-quality ship models from SWLU, so it might just be that. The star wars ships come in inconsistent model qualities. I'll double-check though.

Angrybiscit
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Angrybiscit » Thu, 8. Aug 19, 21:54

@xenonArchitect7
1. #deca OCV names: Yep I'm dumb and just haven't noticed it before...
2. Confirmed Goner Ranger BP is not added when it should be.

*(this could all be the wrong way to look at it and I could be talking udder nonsense)*

On to ship resource requirements... did some homework so that I didn't just shout 'THEY'RE ALL WRONG!" and have nothing else to contribute :) It seemed to me that on average all ships cost more in SW-Mayhem than "Vanilla". I first compared the resources in-game and then opened up the TShips file so that I could see what was going on there. It was helpful that you left all the Vanilla ships in the file as I then compared their values to what is in my Vanilla Mayhem file. Even those values were higher across the board. My findings:

Image

Those values could totally be intended by you and I'm not even sure what goes into changing all the ships resource values evenly (other than simply editing by hand all of them, which I might just do to my own game)

TLDR:
- M5,M4,M3,TS,TM, (Maybe M8) could be 2/3 of present value
- M7 could be 1/2 of present value
- M1, M2 could be 1/3 of present value

Let me know what you think, maybe Joubarbe knows if I messed up something when analyzing this too :)

Edit: darkmode :)

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XenonArchitect7
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by XenonArchitect7 » Fri, 9. Aug 19, 01:51

Angrybiscit,

Thanks for compiling this great info! Yes, I know prices are all over the place and I messed up the vanilla ships. I'm going to fix most of the current known issues for version A-3, which should be out by the end of the week, and then I'm going to dive into balance some time after that. So I don't recommend changing anything until at least A-3.

Say, since you seem to know what you're doing and it looks like you have some modding experience, would you like to help me out? I am still trying to sort out ship balance in SWLU, let alone Mayhem which is completely different than Litcube. Once A-3 drops, I will revert all the non-star wars ships back to Mayhem's stats. If you are willing to do a rough price adjustment for the star wars ships, surely it would be better than what I currently have now. It's going to be quite some time before I have the time to sit down and work through the Mayhem balancing on my own, so if you are willing and able to help, we could use your adjustments for this mod and get it balanced much quicker.

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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Angrybiscit » Fri, 9. Aug 19, 04:11

Sure, I'll take a stab at it :) I'll try and takes notes on the changes as i've already found some outliers.

What were the current numbers based off of? Is it just vanilla litcube figures? Just so I can get my bearings a bit.

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XenonArchitect7
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by XenonArchitect7 » Fri, 9. Aug 19, 04:18

Current numbers are 15% price for all ships in SWLU as a temporary placeholder. You might want to look at the SWLU TShips. But wait until I release A-3 sometime this weekend. Thanks a LOT for this... Balance is one of the biggest problems for the Mayhem port to be sorted out.

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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Joubarbe » Fri, 9. Aug 19, 08:08

What's going on with mov\00001.dat? Going from 610Mb to 69Mb?

Some random thoughts:

- Templates look for manufacturer races. If you keep vanilla ships in "Enemy Race", Mayhem (and probably some vanilla stuff) will ignore them (maybe that's intended behavior to only have SW ships).
- Gamestarts are based on ship types. They are not as flexible as they should be. In Mayhem.Setup.xml, I use direct references to some ships (all gamestarts + super TSs). If you want to change gamestart ships or the TS you receive at the start, you should modify this script. Ship class is also important, some gamestarts won't work if you change from a M4 to a M3. director\start.xml and types\gamestarts.xml are uncompressed files.
- It's important to remove speed and steering extensions, as well as maxing out the cargo capacity of all ships. TL, especially, have drastically reduced cargo compared to LU. Removing these extensions makes job ships balanced, and most importantly, it reduces the cost difference between two of the same ships.
- Lots of ships have no compatible missiles in Mayhem and guns have also been changed, especially Terrans IIRC.
- Looking at your TShips file, I think it would be faster to start from Mayhem TShips and add your SW ships back (always with higher IDs).
- Miner ships must always have "Miners" in their name.
- You should have your own t files with a setup script to load them. Don't modify 0001.
- Be careful of vanilla missions. It took me a while to balance them and remove the proper ones. Some are not going along well with Mayhem.
- You have your own version of WareLists.txt. Not sure if that's a good idea to modify that. I remember having it modified for a good reason, but I don't remember the good reason :)
- I didn't add any OCV ships. Also, they rely on templates, so it's likely to make the game freezes if you don't keep the way they are in Mayhem.
- Only the "Production rel. value (NPC)" is used in the calculation of ship crafting costs.

Angrybiscit
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Angrybiscit » Fri, 9. Aug 19, 08:32

XenonArchitect7 wrote:
Fri, 9. Aug 19, 04:18
Current numbers are 15% price for all ships in SWLU as a temporary placeholder. You might want to look at the SWLU TShips. But wait until I release A-3 sometime this weekend. Thanks a LOT for this... Balance is one of the biggest problems for the Mayhem port to be sorted out.
Awesome, sounds good. I'll hold off on figuring out the others.

@Joubarbe - Question about how you arrived at current "Production rel. Value" for ships.
it LOOKS like... you started with the stock vanilla bean Litcube values and then:
for m5,m4,m3,TS,TM,M6: you just chopped off decimal place. So 1000--->100
For M7: 1.Chop off decimal place and 2.Multiply by 0.75. So 1000--->100--->75
For M1 and M2: 1.Chop off decimal place and 2.Multiply by 0.5. So 1000--->100--->50

Is that correct? Because that makes it WAY simpler to try and figure out what values the SW ships should be. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Angrybiscit on Fri, 9. Aug 19, 15:19, edited 1 time in total.

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XenonArchitect7
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by XenonArchitect7 » Fri, 9. Aug 19, 08:57

Joubarbe wrote:
Fri, 9. Aug 19, 08:08
What's going on with mov\00001.dat? Going from 610Mb to 69Mb?

Some random thoughts:

- Templates look for manufacturer races. If you keep vanilla ships in "Enemy Race", Mayhem (and probably some vanilla stuff) will ignore them (maybe that's intended behavior to only have SW ships).
- Gamestarts are based on ship types. They are not as flexible as they should be. In Mayhem.Setup.xml, I use direct references to some ships (all gamestarts + super TSs). If you want to change gamestart ships or the TS you receive at the start, you should modify this script. Ship class is also important, some gamestarts won't work if you change from a M4 to a M3. director\start.xml and types\gamestarts.xml are uncompressed files.
- It's important to remove speed and steering extensions, as well as maxing out the cargo capacity of all ships. TL, especially, have drastically reduced cargo compared to LU. Removing these extensions makes job ships balanced, and most importantly, it reduces the cost difference between two of the same ships.
- Lots of ships have no compatible missiles in Mayhem and guns have also been changed, especially Terrans IIRC.
- Looking at your TShips file, I think it would be faster to start from Mayhem TShips and add your SW ships back (always with higher IDs).
- Miner ships must always have "Miners" in their name.
- You should have your own t files with a setup script to load them. Don't modify 0001.
- Be careful of vanilla missions. It took me a while to balance them and remove the proper ones. Some are not going along well with Mayhem.
- You have your own version of WareLists.txt. Not sure if that's a good idea to modify that. I remember having it modified for a good reason, but I don't remember the good reason :)
- I didn't add any OCV ships. Also, they rely on templates, so it's likely to make the game freezes if you don't keep the way they are in Mayhem.
- Only the "Production rel. value (NPC)" is used in the calculation of ship crafting costs.
I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to dig into my files and help me make this work with Mayhem. And for calling me out on my sloppiness :D . Yes, I am going to re-do TShips, TDocks, and will restore the main 0001 text file to the original and load my own. I started down the dark path of modifying 0001 over a year ago when I first started learning about X3 modding, and I never came back to the light, despite seeing how both you and Litcube made your own text files for modded content. Finally time to fix it...

I agree that adding my stuff as extensions to your files would be the optimal way to do it, rather than replace everything with SWLU files, which are made for an entirely different mod.

When you say "Miners" needs to be in the name, do you mean besides the variation index = 5? Wouldn't that just result in "TIE Fighter Miner Miner", with the red label being from the variation index?

The only thing I messed with for vanilla missions was SRST.txt, which is the list of ships that each race can pick from for vanilla missions. This makes those ships flying around offering combat missions SW ships, and it makes pirate enemies in combat missions SW ships as well.

Gotcha, I will remove my WareLists.txt because who knows what type of problems that causes. I know I changed ware list ID 5 so that I could add video enhancement goggles, trade system extention, and SETA to the space suit (personal preference), but other than that it should be the same. I'll remove it for safety though. (Also, why does the space suit turn like a brick in Mayhem? I always found that super annoying lol)

With mov\00001.dat, I replaced a lot of the race portraits with 256x256 images of star wars characters, so that might make the video file smaller :gruebel: ? Do you know anything about editing this file? Because I can't seem to get the individual portraits to line up with the timestamps defined in addon\types\Videos.txt no matter how hard I try. So my portraits flash to another one at the end of their "animation" (call a NPC and just wait). I tried changing the timestamps, shortening the periods, lining up the transitions to the exact frame they change in the original video file, doing offsets, different video formats before converting to .dat, but I can't seem to fix this. Does anyone here know about editing this file?

Thanks for pointing out the gamestart setup script. I know how to modify start.xml, but I know Mayhem does a lot of advanced script functions upon startup so I didn't mess with it. I think the only thing I'm going to change is the ship IDs themselves. I'll have to see if the starting equipment still works properly. I noticed that the free bailed TS at the start of some gamestarts is already using the SW ships.

And I think I'm going to double the range of all the lasers in Mayhem (but keep all of Mayhem's laser stats unchanged). It's a change I made in SWLU that I can't live without anymore lol. I can't stand seeing lasers disappear when a mob of M6 try to attack a large station like a shipyard or a large ship like a Forseti. All fading out of existence just before they reach their target or until the M6 close the distance....

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Joubarbe
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Joubarbe » Fri, 9. Aug 19, 21:32

'Miner' just needs to be in the name, but that seems to already be the case.

Sorry I know nothing about the file 0001.dat.

Brick turning gives more reason to buy the Remote Software. Plus, I don't think space walking should be easy.

EDIT: Mayhem already increases range from LU. Keep in mind that performance is affected by weapon range. Maybe you should consider increasing only the biggest lasers.

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XenonArchitect7
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by XenonArchitect7 » Sat, 10. Aug 19, 21:38

Version A-3 released!

I restored a lot of things to their original Mayhem implementations and cut out more SWLU content. Ships still need balancing, though. Have at it, Angrybiscit :D ! Thanks again.

Edit: Oh, you should know that there are some identical ships but owned by different races. For example, the YT-2400 has a Terran version and an Argon version. Same stats (although different lasers/missiles), but you don't have to keep it that way. There are also some ships that have multiple variants, such as the X-Wing R, X-Wing B, X-Wing T-65B, and X-Wing T-70. The ship list included in the download should help (just ctrl+F search the name of a ship to see if there are duplicates for other races). I'm not sure how deep you are willing to go for re-balancing, but I don't mind if you go beyond changing just the prices.

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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Angrybiscit » Tue, 13. Aug 19, 00:24

Sounds good :thumb_up: already started on it. To start with I'll just look at the resource values.

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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by Angrybiscit » Tue, 13. Aug 19, 00:45

Image


Look what decided to show up with the new release! So, hopefully that is working again :) (Ranger BP)

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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by temetvince » Tue, 13. Aug 19, 21:35

Gamestart 3 Normal Fighter crashes the game (and forces me to reboot my pc) as soon as the first "jump" occurs (before mayhem is initialized, but after I can see my ship). Where can I find a logfile that may be helpful for you?

Edit: Actually, it works. It just takes awhile to load!

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XenonArchitect7
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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by XenonArchitect7 » Wed, 14. Aug 19, 01:05

Was it during the asteroid generation phase of loading or before that? Not that I claim to be an expert on Mayhem or anything. I'm just curious so I can look out for it in the future.

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Re: [Mayhem] Star Wars for Mayhem (Experimental)

Post by temetvince » Wed, 14. Aug 19, 06:18

XenonArchitect7 wrote:
Wed, 14. Aug 19, 01:05
Was it during the asteroid generation phase of loading or before that? Not that I claim to be an expert on Mayhem or anything. I'm just curious so I can look out for it in the future.
When you first start a game, it will say "Initializing Mayhem", then it will automatically send you through a warp tunnel/gate into the x-universe. This is before asteroid generation or any control is given to the player. When my game screen went black from entering the warp gate, it never turned unblack, just got stuck mid warp.

Is that helpful?

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