[XRM-AP] Rogue Goner Mammoths [Resolved]

[Reido]

Thought I'd start a new post about this as it's probably not specifically related to XRM, but a general modding question.

Sorry for the long post, I'm still a noob at modding so I've been taking baby steps and trying to learn but this has me stumped.

I'm having trouble tracking down a nagging problem. I have the occasional Goner Mammoth appearing in sectors, any other Mammoths I've seen in the game are the usual "Argon Supply Mammoth" or the occasional "Pirate Mammoth", these Goner Mammoths are the only odd ones seen.

The last game I played had these as well but I was also 'tinkering' with the game while playing and hoped that when I started a new game they would clear up.

It's been difficult to track down as it seems to take a couple of game days before the errant Mammoths start showing up after starting a new game.

1. When OOS it spawns at the exact coordinates of a trading station and they accumulate in numbers over the course of a few game hours. Last play through it was mostly at Queen's Harbor while this game they're mostly spawning at Power Circle. In both cases that's in the area close to where I've started building stations in each game, or maybe it's just that I notice them close to my 'home turf'.

2. It can be captured or shot up and destroyed with lasers and they do have a pilot, so they don't appear to be connected to any plot.

3. When IS they simply wander around never leaving the sector they spawned in.

I have made minor changes to XRM's files:

jobs, (set # of jobs for easter egg and UFO ships to 0, increased time between major Xenon invasions)
Tships, (specs. and increased Goner moral slightly)
Tmissiles, (specs.)
Tlasers, (reduced cargo volume of some)
TwareT, (price, ware size)
Globals, (sat. range)

In all cases I've made sure that X3 Editor 2 is pointing to the correct game instance and folder for AP as well as using the "Open From VFS" option when loading and when saving I've put the new files in the \addon\Types folder as 'loose' files outside of the VFS.

As a test to see if the Jobs file was spawning them I renamed my loose jobs file and created an empty job.txt file and when I load my saved game all ships had no name except the Goner Mammoths, so that would seem to indicate that a script is spawning them.

AFAIK the only script I have installed that spawns ships is Traveling Mechanic and I've gone through that and double checked that every ship that it spawns has the correct ID that matches up with the XRM Tships file. I did add a small addition to the Traveling Mechanic MD file by adding a <do all exact "2"/>, </do all> surrounding the creation of it's escorts to double the number to increase it's survivability in XRM and I have confirmed that the Traveling Mechanic does spawn as it should with double the escort number to a total of 18 escort ships.

My complete list of MODS and scripts I'm using with AP 3.0 and XRM 1.29D:

MODS:

04 - Complex Cleaner
05 - XRM (1)
06 - XRM (2)
07 - XRM Backgrounds
08 - XRM Hulls (mid)
09 - XRM Adv. Universe
10 - XRM Cockpits

Scripts:

Cheat Collection Package (AP) v1.6
Complex Cleaner v4.09
Enhanced Blueprint Missions v1.5 (minus the SRST.xrm file)
Improved Collect Wares v0.2
JSON Parse Library v1.2 (not currently used as NPC Bailer is not installed)
Marine Repairs and Training v2.06
Menagerie Shipyard V1.2 (added the new XRM Xenon ships) POSSIBLE problem as it does some 'funky' things
Organic Boron Hull v1.0
Player Workshop v20 (v 0.2 or v2.0)?
Repair Ships command v1.0
Satellite Early Warning v1.22
Slipstream Drive v2.02
Smart Turrets (AP) v4.6.1
The Traveling Mechanic V0.2 (with changes listed above)
Standalone AP Bonus Pack scripts
Standalone Plugin Manager scripts (Plugin Manager is NOT used to install any scripts:
Community Plugin Configuration v1.51
Hot Key Manager v1.21
Ware Manager v1.1


</verbose=off>


Reido

[Guest]

I have the occasional Goner Mammoth appearing in sectors, any other Mammoths I've seen in the game are the usual "Argon Supply Mammoth" or the occasional "Pirate Mammoth", these Goner Mammoths are the only odd ones seen.

... afaik such problems appear when a script, MD or jobs should spawn a ship type which doesnt exist in TShips

--> if that ship has no job ID, it wasn´t created by jobs
----> activate script editor, enable additional informations (in SE menu), open ship infos of that ship, scroll down & check if job ID = 0

[DrBullwinkle]

It is nice to see someone using the Slipstream Drive. The only recent reports in that thread were not exactly constructive.

In the Script Editor, turn on Additional Ship Info. In the Goner Mammoth's Command Console, scroll down to near the bottom and see what scripts are on the stack. That may give you a clue. If there is a Job or a custom script on the stack, then you will have your answer. If only standard ship command scripts are on the stack, then you will have to dig further.

Ha! Ninja'ed.

[Reido]

Thanks for the replies.

I'll do a little more digging to see what's spawning those ships now that I have a little more info to work with.


@DrBullwinkle

I find the Slipstream Drive particularly useful for taxi missions in the XRM Advanced Universe as you can't jump around willy-nilly like the standard maps and it has a nice element of 'THINK' about it as you need to check the path ahead and time the shut down just right and hope there's no enemy ships around that you couldn't see (because they were out of scanner range) when you resume normal flight. Nice bit of standard equipment to have on a *Player* ship.


Reido

[DrBullwinkle]

Sweet! That is exactly the results that I was aiming for.

Would you do me a favor and post that report in the Slipstream Drive thread? Not one person has posted a "success" report there.

[Reido]

FOLLOWUP:

When first finding and then viewing the info for a Goner Mammoth [OOS] it shows:

jobs ID:0

and running:

1. plugin.autotrade.delivery.go
2. !move.jump
3. !move.stay

When the info is viewed [IS] it shows:

1. !ship.cmd.idle
2. !move.idle

and turret scripts.

Moving [OOS] again it's still running the !ship.cmd.idle script.

These are all vanilla scripts so any clue where I can go from here?

It's been a looooooooong time since I did any coding and high level script languages are like looking at a foreign language where you only understand tiny bits and pieces here and there but can't get the overall picture, but from what I can decipher it looks like the 'plugin.autotrade.delivery.go script' might be part of a mission and the ship is supposed to suicide (disappear) when done but whats calls that script is still an unknown so far.


Reido

[DrBullwinkle]

1. plugin.autotrade.delivery.go

That is a standard part of autotrade (the Trade Command Software Mk3 script for sector/local/universe traders). I think it is the ship used to buy jumpdrives and deliver them to Universe Traders. Intended to be a Goner Ranger, I believe.

If you are not using Mk3 Improvement, then you really should get it. It fixes a zillion squillion bugs (approximately) and makes UT's work the way that they really should work. Gnasirator has been testing on XRM recently, so I am sure that his delivery ships will work with XRM. (OK Traders is another alternative -- either script is far superior to the vanilla script).

If this is a conflict between the vanilla autotrade script and XRM, then I am surprised that nobody has caught it before.

[Reido]

If this is a conflict between the vanilla autotrade script and XRM, then I am surprised that nobody has caught it before.

I'm not sure too many people are using the Advanced Universe in the first place let alone the MK3 Trading software without jump drives installed in their ships so maybe it's never come up before. I've set them up as local traders and NOT to use jump drives which is defiantly not the norm for the vast majority of players I suspect.

I really thought it was a turn for the worse when jump drives came into the X games. Without them the Universe feels so much bigger, I've just spent over 3 game days empire building, fighting, trading and doing missions in the XRM Adv. Uni. and I've only just barely explored past the Argon sectors around Argon Prime, I have lots of time and patience which most people seem to lack these days, mostly for reasons beyond their control sadly.

I have been reading up on the OK Trader lately and I think I'll switch over and remove all the MK3 software from the handful of ships that do carry that and see if the Goner Mammoths stop spawning, if so then I'll bring it up with Paul Wheeler and see what he thinks.

I'll update this thread one way or the other in case it comes in handy for someone else someday.

BTW Doc I added a plug for your Slipstream Drive in it's thread as it is an interesting addition to the game.

Thanks for the help so far.


Reido

[paulwheeler]

OK - this is nearly always caused by having an errant TShips.


Your game is trying to spawn a Goner ship (probably one of the two XRM added Goner ships), but can't find it due to the XRM TShips being blocked by TShips either in another mod or in your local types folder.

You need to find this rogue TShips, remove it and restart your game - is your customised TShips based on the latest release's TShips? I added new Goner ships a few versions ago - if your TShips is older than this then it would explain the problem. You must keep any customised files up-to-date (this is one reason why Microsoft don't offer tech support for modded games).

An easy check - open your modded TShips in the X3 Editor 2 - do you see the Goner Paladin and Crusader in the ship list?

[DrBullwinkle]

I saw your post in the Slipstream Drive thread. Thank you!

I think you have solved your problem. Now it is just a matter of sorting out the details.

I mostly agree about the jumpdrives. My first experience with X games was TC's Terran Defender plot, which does not give you a jump drive until you reach Earth. For me, that was at least a hundred hours into the game. I had many excellent adventures before I got the jump drive, such as trying to get to Split space which required going through a Xenon sector in an M4. Even more challenging was that I bought a couple of second-hand ships while in Split space and had to get them *back* to Terran space by going through yet another Xenon sector. All with no jump drives. It made traveling dangerous sectors a true THINK challenge rather than simply punching the "jump" button.

[Reido]

OK - this is nearly always caused by having an errant TShips.


Your game is trying to spawn a Goner ship (probably one of the two XRM added Goner ships), but can't find it due to the XRM TShips being blocked by TShips either in another mod or in your local types folder.

You need to find this rogue TShips, remove it and restart your game - is your customised TShips based on the latest release's TShips? I added new Goner ships a few versions ago - if your TShips is older than this then it would explain the problem. You must keep any customised files up-to-date (this is one reason why Microsoft don't offer tech support for modded games).

An easy check - open your modded TShips in the X3 Editor 2 - do you see the Goner Paladin and Crusader in the ship list?

The Tships and other customized files are taken from the version of XRM I have installed which is 1.29D on AP3.0 and loaded from the \addon folder via "Open From VFS", I do see the Paladin and Crusader ships in the Tships file. I haven't felt the need to update XRM to the latest version yet, that's why I'm still on 1.29D

The reason this is in a separate thread is because I assumed that with all the extra scripts I have installed my problem was caused by a script conflict somewhere, therefore a more general modding issue and not a tech support issue specifically with XRM.

I have a 'vanilla' version of my XRM + XRM addons setup with just the cheat script installed so I'll let a few 'jump-less' MK3 local traders loose on that for a while and see if I can replicate the issue without the complications of the other scripts installed.


Reido

[DrBullwinkle]

I would expect that the Goner ships are most likely to appear when the Mk3's are eligible for jump drives (local traders).

[Reido]

UPDATE:

I would expect that the Goner ships are most likely to appear when the Mk3's are eligible for jump drives (local traders).

That's exactly what I've just found out during my test session.

I have an 1.29D + AP3.0 XRM installation with only the cheat script and the following XRM addons:

04 - XRM (1)
05 - XRM (2)
06 - XRM Backgrounds
07 - XRM Hulls (mid)
08 - XRM Adv. Universe
09 - XRM Cockpits

There are no modified XRM files and no files at all in the addon\types folder, this is a pure XRM + vanilla AP3.0 installation.

Cheated in 4 Mercury's and 4 Mercury Tankers with nothing installed but full engine tunings and Trade software 1-3.

Set them up as sector traders and let the game run at SETA 2x until they leveled up and within a few minutes of switching the first trader from sector to local trader with a radius of 1 the first instance of plugin.autotrade.delivery.go showed up and a Goner Mammoth along with it.

Destroyed that Mammoth and increased Rep with the Goners from the default with the 'Humble Merchant" start to max but another Goner Mammoth showed up a few minutes later after changing a couple of more traders from sector to local traders.

Unless someone else wants to try and replicate this to verify it I'll just chalk it up to a freak occurrence of unlikely circumstances and see it as another reason to move on to another trading script other than the 'standard' MK3 trader.


Reido

[DrBullwinkle]

If you can reproduce it in a "vanilla XRM" game, then it is a bug rather than a "freak occurence".

I see it as a sign that most XRM players probably use Mk3 Improvement or OK Traders.

[Reido]

If you can reproduce it in a "vanilla XRM" game, then it is a bug rather than a "freak occurence".

Not being a script coder or experienced Modder I was reluctant to use the "B" word in regards to something I know little about

I used to be an electronics service technician back in the day when stuff was actually repaired instead of replaced so I still have my troubleshooting skills that come in handy but my coding skills are from the days of writing in assembly code


Reido

[DrBullwinkle]

Your troubleshooting skills are quite sharp, Reido. Your thorough reports made it easy to spot an obscure (minor) bug that has gone unnoticed for years.