Trump

felter · Post by **felter** » Sun, 19. Feb 17, 17:16

So it looks like Trump during his rally, reported a terrorist incident of some sort in Sweden on Friday night, the main problem is, no one and that includes Sweden, has a clue what this terrorist incident was. And he talks about fake news, he is one of the biggest contributors to that phenomenon.

Chips · Post by **Chips** » Sun, 19. Feb 17, 17:26

I nearly put "apart from the obvious" in there, but...

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Sun, 19. Feb 17, 21:01

111 pages without invoking godwins law. Not bad.

felter · Post by **felter** » Sun, 19. Feb 17, 23:22

philip_hughes wrote:111 pages without invoking godwins law. Not bad.

Actually, he has been mentioned more than a few times before now.

Observe · Post by **Observe** » Sun, 19. Feb 17, 23:43

Masterbagger wrote:John McCain is what we call a RINO. Republican In Name Only. He is not a conservative. The Trumpening owes it strength to opposition of democrats and men like him equally.

I don't know how old you are, but I remember a time when being a conservative meant you held more to traditional views regarding economy, family etc., whereas being a liberal meant you preferred a society more open to changes. Either way, both parties were generally run by people with some basic decency, but with a somewhat different view regarding economics, change and progress.

Trump is not a conservative by any stretch. He appeals to the very worst in human nature, without a shred of decency.

I saw a meme recently with the words: The more liberals hate President Trump, the more I love him. To me, that statement is an accurate representation of many Trump supporters. As I mentioned elsewhere, we are seeing a reaction against liberalism, rather than anything to do with conservatism per se.

What I see coming from Trump, has zero to do with conservatism or Republican and that he is inventing new meanings (alternative facts) for those words. It seems to me, that any group who is basing their hopes on alternative facts, is not going to do very well in the long-run.

John McCain is an old-time conservative, who is seeing the demise of the Republican party being lead by a person who doesn't know the meaning of decency, tolerance or truth.

People of good-will must oppose this tyrant of a President - regardless of whether they are Republican, Democrat, or some other political persuasion.

BugMeister · Post by **BugMeister** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 00:40

- of course Trump could just be a Republican patsy..
- designed specifically so that Pence becomes POTUS..

- and then it really hits the fan..
- an UNELECTED right-wing loony steps in..

felter · Post by **felter** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 00:47

This has to be the best part of the rather long Trump news conference from the other day there.

Post by **Santi** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 02:54

Chips wrote:How many presidents have held rallies after gaining office? How many world leaders hold rallies after getting into office?

Hearing that he's holding a "rally" sounds... weird. Is this common among country leadership?

It was a very common thing to do, leaders will tour their countries giving speeches and holding meetings, later on with the coming of radio and later television that practice become disused.

Much have changed to the current times, when the only time politicians visit their constituencies is just before elections or to be in the picture when disaster strikes or some kind of political "goodwill" is to be made. One of the reasons they seem so out of touch with the people.

felter wrote:This has to be the best part of the rather long Trump news conference from the other day there.

And the same can be said for the press, google checking facts that really nobody cares about. Maybe some people care, ok, but in the same way that Trump cares about inauguration figures, it is called being petty, just report it, put the pictures/figures and let people made their own mind about it.

Trump and Co. are bad in alternate facts but the press is not that much far behind.

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 04:11

Masterbagger wrote:...John McCain is what we call a RINO. Republican In Name Only. He is not a conservative. The Trumpening owes it strength to opposition of democrats and men like him equally.

You remember that he was once the Republican Candidate for President, right? They had a convention and everythin'... Even held an election, if you can believe it, with the Republican Party fully supporting their chosen Republican Candidate - John McCain.

McCain is a "moderate" Republican. And, now that he's speaking out against Trump, I suppose he's being labeled "The Enemy" and certain people are doing all they can to smear him. Why? Because, with this current administration, nothing matters but their "alternate facts" and if they have to "wag the dog" to get people to believe them or just forget about the contributions of REAL Republican leaders and start slandering them in order to try to hurt their message then that's what they're going to do.

They'll do it because they don't appear to have any character and no scruples.

Post by **Santi** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 04:46

Yes, Mccain is speaking against Trump, but at the same time he is supporting him. From the The Guardian newspaper:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... et-started

Funnily enough at the very end of the interview, we find this: "McCain has voted to confirm all of Trump’s cabinet nominations except one, the Office of Management and Budget director, Mick Mulvaney, because of a disagreement over cuts to the Pentagon’s budget. In the interview, he similarly suggested he was willing to give the president leeway within Congress’ rights to reject nominees and control the White House’s purse.

“I think we should give the president the benefit of the doubt,” he said. “But at the same time, we have our responsibilities of advise and consent.”

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 05:06

Douglas Adams wrote: “It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again.
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happenned to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
"But that's terrible," said Arthur.
"Listen, bud," said Ford, "if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say 'That's terrible' I wouldn't be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.”

Sorry if its been mentioned in the 80 pages of my absence

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 05:08

This is... interesting. Apparently, Shepherd Smith at Fox News has had quite enough of Trump - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fysSDYkhHlU

Masterbagger · Post by **Masterbagger** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 05:55

Morkonan wrote:
Masterbagger wrote:...John McCain is what we call a RINO. Republican In Name Only. He is not a conservative. The Trumpening owes it strength to opposition of democrats and men like him equally.
You remember that he was once the Republican Candidate for President, right? They had a convention and everythin'... Even held an election, if you can believe it, with the Republican Party fully supporting their chosen Republican Candidate - John McCain.

McCain is a "moderate" Republican. And, now that he's speaking out against Trump, I suppose he's being labeled "The Enemy" and certain people are doing all they can to smear him. Why? Because, with this current administration, nothing matters but their "alternate facts" and if they have to "wag the dog" to get people to believe them or just forget about the contributions of REAL Republican leaders and start slandering them in order to try to hurt their message then that's what they're going to do.

They'll do it because they don't appear to have any character and no scruples.

He supported the assault weapon ban, the Manchin-Toomey bill, and amnesty for illegal aliens. He has a history of taking positions opposite the party he claims.

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 06:42

In Australia, it is very rare for party members to cross the floor. All the US congress dramas you see on tv are about trying to get votes from your side, and if not from across the floor.

Usenko · Post by **Usenko** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 07:59

Masterbagger wrote:
He supported the assault weapon ban, the Manchin-Toomey bill, and amnesty for illegal aliens. He has a history of taking positions opposite the party he claims.

So . .

He supported restricting a particularly dangerous kind of weapon to the military, and ensuring that nutjobs don't get guns.

"Illegal aliens" is a loaded term. Just to be clear, are we talking about "People who enter the United States and then ask for asylum", or are we talking about "People who have come into the United States legally and have overstayed their visa"?

In any case, are you for real? You're SERIOUSLY saying that a person who has RUN FOR PRESIDENT for the right wing is dumped to the status of "RINO" if they soften their stance on two issues?

He's not even opposing the right to bear arms (which is so right wing it's viewed as bat-excrement crazy in every other nation of the world, just to be clear). He's simply proposing some very minor amendments to the way this is handled. And that's enough for you to declare him no longer a Republican?

And you're happy for some guy with completely RANDOM views (and as we've already discussed, zippo idea of how business is meant to be conducted under the terms of the Constitution and the law of the USA) to be the measure of what IS Republican?

BugMeister · Post by **BugMeister** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 12:26

- he certainly has the hair required of a true superhero..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2QQLVv7ghc

- the league of super-hairoes..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNM8lkdMyH0

clakclak · Post by **clakclak** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 13:47

Maybe the US president should start reading his intelligence reports instead of watching Fox news. For someone who complaints about fake news all the time he puts a surprising amount of trust in Fox news.

Trump wrote:My statement as to what's happening in Sweden was in reference to a story that was broadcast on @FoxNews concerning immigrants & Sweden.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 4451753984

Bishop149 · Post by **Bishop149** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 15:02

Masterbagger wrote:Our government shouldn't have that power. It should only be able to hold people accountable for unlawfully harming others.

I'm not going to start the gun debate. I will accept for now that it is a "right" to own a gun. In the US this is a legal statute which no one would dispute and it is NOT going to change, whoever is in power.

But that the quote statement is rubbish. A state has the responsibility to both up hold the rights of it citizens AND protect its citizens from harm (including from other citizens and indeed itself).
I agree with Usenko that these two things are not (and likely can never be) mutually exclusive any and kind of civilised society. The only imaginable situation in which they would conflict is if was your legal right to harm another citizen without question . . . . which of course would be insanity.

On a more general note I find it fascinating that those that are often the most vocal about the dangers of an authoritarian centralised government leading to restrictions of their personal freedoms seem perfectly willing to accept a fairly dictatorial line from their leader ("The President will not be questioned" anyone?) as long as they agree with what he says and the freedoms being restricted are someone else's.
It's quite possibly the most hypocritical thing I've ever witnessed.

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 15:24

Masterbagger wrote:He supported the assault weapon ban,

http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Joh ... ontrol.htm

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ ... vote=00375 (Looks like he voted against this, right? Or, is it an "alt-fact?")

https://projects.propublica.org/represe ... nate/1/101 (Looks like he voted against it, here. Alt-fact? Just checking.)

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/103/hr4296

the Manchin-Toomey bill

It doesn't appear that Manchin-Toomey is.. bad. In fact, it even expands some gun sale possibilities, forbids a National Registry and allows gun-sales/transfers between family/friends and even, basically, people who know each other and are doing it informally. It requires background checks, but those are restricted to those who actually "sell" guns as a business and/or those who advertise as such.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... -proposal/

amnesty for illegal aliens.

Ronald Reagan supported Amnesty.

But, I think your definition of "Amnesty" (Maybe you're using Breitbart's definition, if that's what you're referring to?) isn't what McCain has proposed.

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/John_M ... ration.htm

Doing nothing, according to McCain, is "de-facto Amnesty." A "path to citizenship" should be there. BUT, note that he has called for border security, deportation of alien criminals, a process that doesn't guarrantee citizenship, etc...

He has a history of taking positions opposite the party he claims.

https://www.conservativereview.com/memb ... erty-card/#

Note that his entire voting history is significantly "pro-Conservative." The first score, "The Liberty Score", is only a history for the past six years.

So, basically, if you're only referring to the past six years, this "conservative" publication would support your claim. (Though, I do not know which sorts of issues they're labeling liberal/conservative), but for McCain's "history", it's decidedly Conservative according to this publication.

McCain does, in my opinion, have the reputation of being a "moderate." He has also been known to "cross the aisle" to work with Democrats on legislation. He does not always "tow the party line", that's true. But, he has more of a history of making "good decisions", in my opinion, and that's why I voted for him... despite "Palin", who I abhorred. I thought she was incapable of the task of Vice-President and was only a strategic choice for the Republican Party in order to counter Hillary's appeal for women voters and, if necessary, Obama's "youthful" demographics. Of course, she contributed a great deal towards tanking McCain's campaign, along with the growing support for more hard-line Conservative "values", whatever those are, in the Republican party. (Tea Party Movement)

In short and in all honesty - I know that there are strong forces out there pushing certain lines of thought, especially when it comes down to "party loyalty." But, IMO, the Republican Party's platform has been far, far, far too much like a typical Democrat platform in that the only thing they've actually promoted is attacking opponents and attempting to demonize anyone who actually appears to be making decisions that don't involved blindly following some sort of "agenda" set strictly by a "Party." We don't need blind people in office. McCain, even if you detest him, doesn't have a record of blindly rubber-stamping legislation. IMO, he was a good choice for President for that reason.

BugMeister · Post by **BugMeister** » Mon, 20. Feb 17, 15:26

here's some music to lighten the mood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpN_TOP9hg8

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Trump