"Amazing" things that are actually "Mediocre"

[Jericho]

Everything is subjective.
I get that.

"Amazing" to one person is "Meh" to another annoying person that just says "Meh" instead of saying why. e.g. Me.

This kind of relates to the thread on reviews... separating your feelings about a thing, from the actual review of it's components.


The Empire Strikes Back

"It's the best Star Wars film!!!!!" says every die-hard Star Wars fan like me. But no. It's not. It's the worst of the original trilogy, and it the worst of the current 4 films (Eps 4, 5, 6 ,7).

The film stinks of "Wow, that first film did great! Lets throw lots of money at the sequel and change all the stuff that made the 1st one so popular!"

i.e. every sequel in Hollywood.

1) They separate the cast. Luke has that 1 brief scene with Han in the hospital room (note: Sleeping inside the guts of his dead steed doesn't count as a scene), and then Luke spends the rest of the film talking to Kermit the Frog. What the hell were they thinking?

2) Meanwhile, Han gets a less-cool shirt and somehow spends 18-24 months lost in an asteroid field while Luke gets his Jedi training. (Alternatively, Han spends a few hours in an asteroid field, while Luke gets 20 years of training in a single afternoon). The first person to mention time dilation, the speed of light, parsecs, or blackholes can just catch the rationalization bus and leave.

3) "But the ending is so dark!!!!" So, you're judging the whole film by the final scene of Lando stealing Han's clothes, ship, and best friend with the excuse of "We'll find him!" even though you know Jabba has him on Tattooine? No, I'm sorry. The film is mediocre and boring at best. It ain't no Star Wars.


Star Trek: The Original Series

1) I've covered this before... The show was mostly awful. Shatner was excellent (as in wonderful to watch), episodes usually ended with racist jokes at Spock's expense.

2) Star Trek canon was just whatever they wanted that week. These days people complain when the books or new series break the canon of the original. But there was no canon. Was Sulu a botanist or a physicist? Was Spock a doctor or not? Can you beam onto the ship or not? I realize that at the start they were just making it up as they went along, and after a while things settled down a bit.

3) "But but but, they predicted the development of so many technological advances that we take for granted these days!!!!!" Yeah? Name one. Name one, that didn't have prior art.

Lord of the Rings

1) Ungh. Tom f-ing Bombadill. Endless crappy songs. Those bloody books should be used a punishment now that US States are running out of death penalty drugs.

2) The films are so much better.

Stanley Kubric's Masterpieces

1) 2001. OK, the slow start I like. The ship-board HAL antics I like. The last half of the film with the LSD lightshow... forgeddaboudit.

2) Full Metal Jacket. The first half at bootcamp, excellent film. The rest of the film, not so much. Actually, probably the best Kubrick that I've seen (I've not seen Clockwork Orange).

3) The Shining. Meh. Shelly Duval's discovery at the typewriter, excellent. Her discovery of Redrum in the mirror gave me chills. Jack Nicholson just accepting the bar tender and the people in the deserted hotel kind of makes me thing "eesh, that's creepy". But the rest of it, no thanks. (You can see that I'm losing interest in this thread as I type).

Superheros/ Almost anyone that ends in "man"

1) You know the only superhero that I like? Batman. It's Batman. You know why? Because he's not a superhero. Being a billionaire isn't a super power. Unless you ask Trump. Batman is like Judge Dredd. He's the best because he's the best. He doesn't get his powers because he was born under the red sun of Krypton. He wasn't given the super-soldier-serum. He wasn't bitten by a radioactive badger.

2) To make any superhero film interesting, the super hero has to lose their powers to fight the bad guys at the same level. Therefore it negate what makes them Super in the first place. It turns out, 100% of the time, that the true power was in here all along (touches heart).

3) Otherwise, the bad guys has to have superpowers comparable to the superhero, so they are fighting on the same level. Thus negating what makes them Super in the first place ( touches heart etc etc).

4) Aquaman? Really? How is that going to work? Why am I reminded of Knightboat?
https://youtu.be/y6l7Hzv4PQ4 "Oh, every week there's a canal"

Amazon Prime

1) My wife bought me 1 year membership to Amazon Prime. It was almost as if there were lots of programs she wanted to watch, and lots of things that she wanted to order. I bought her a powerdrill, so I guess we're square.

2) Before I had Amazon Prime, everytime I tired to buy something on Amazon, I would get told "You can get this delivered tomorrow for FREEE!!!!! Just sign up to Amazon Prime!!!!"

2.5) After I signed up to Amazon Prime, every time I tried to buy something on Amazon, I would be told "You can get this cheaper if you don't use Amazon Prime!!!! Just click this button to buy it cheaper!!!!"

Screw you Amazon Prime!!!! I hope your brother Optimus dies from a horrific oil-change-infection.

[Golden_Gonads]

1) You know the only superhero that I like? Batman. It's Batman. You know why? Because he's not a superhero. Being a billionaire isn't a super power. Unless you ask Trump. Batman is like Judge Dredd. He's the best because he's the best. He doesn't get his powers because he was born under the red sun of Krypton. He wasn't given the super-soldier-serum. He wasn't bitten by a radioactive badger.

Batman? He's not even a hero. Why? Because he's perfectly happy to keep capturing villains every time they escape and not kill them. He knows that they'll just escape, killing a bunch more people every time, but 'killing is wrong'. Never mind that the blood of their victims is on his hands as he refuses to do the only sensible thing. Bah! Besides if he wanted to do good, he'd use his billions to clean up the town. Charitable works, construction, schools... Not Bat-this and Bat-that.

(Yes yes, the same goes for almost every comic-book hero, but that's besides the point).

[CBJ]

Lord of the Rings

1) Ungh. Tom f-ing Bombadill. Endless crappy songs. Those bloody books should be used a punishment now that US States are running out of death penalty drugs.

2) The films are so much better.

It's possible to skip the songs, and indeed most of the Tom Bombadil stuff, without really missing anything important, and I thoroughly recommend that approach to anyone who has struggled with it in the past.

I've only watched half of the first film, and I wasn't hugely impressed. It suffers from what I can only describe as "over-processing fuzziness", which is present in some films that rely too heavily on mixing CGI and live action. I don't know what they do in those films or whether it's intentional, but it's clearly not inevitable as other films such as Avatar don't suffer from it. It spoiled my enjoyment of the film somewhat, which is why I've not watched the rest of it or the remaining films, though I must admit there may be an element of preferring the version that lived in my imagination from reading the books as a child.

[Jericho]

I've only watched half of the first film, and I wasn't hugely impressed. It suffers from what I can only describe as "over-processing fuzziness", which is present in some films that rely too heavily on mixing CGI and live action.

He he, I know what you mean, but I actually liked it. The CGI was done by Weta, and was a different process to the usual Hollywood (i.e. cheap Chinese/Korean labor) that is all shiny.

Gollum especially was excellent, and I can just imagine how he would have looked had Hollywood made him (Jar Jar Binks...)

[matthewfarmery]

The LOTR book /s are really good once you get into them. Wasn't hugely impressed with the films either.

I also recently watched Assassin Creed film, what a lot of crap that was. The problem with a lot of films, like CBJ said, the over use of CGI. I think film makers think its a good idea to add loads of it in, especially when the film has a fall to sleep story.

as for Empire strikes back, sorry but I have to disagree fully with what you said. your also forgetting that this film removes a major storyline char / actor at the end of the film, something you don't really see in a lot of films of that time. Bit the original films still beat the crappy new lot by a mile.

I also like batman, my only real comic book hero / anti hero I really like. Then again, the Watchmen was also a really good film, and a lot better then most other comic book films by a mile.

While the first X men was decent, after that, the films just lose the plot, or in some cases, have no bearing on the other films. I also can't say I like Superman either, I think he is probably the most lame of the comic book heroes.

[brucewarren]

I had a few issues with Mr Jackon's version of LOTR.

It was by far the best film version so far, but still not perfect.

My biggest issues concerned the treatment of some of the characters.

In the book Treebeard is wise and kindly. He's also a remarkable linguist. Despite forgetting the word 'hill' he manages to speak to the hobbits in the vernacular. It's not his native language but he can speak the version of the Common Speech hobbits use as if he was one of them. The elves often lapse into archaisms or over formal language. Treebeard does not do this.

In the film he's too thick to notice what's been happening in his own forest.

Denethor. In the books his chief problem is pride. He's a smart cookie and he knows it. Even Sauron can't possess him through the Palantir the way he does Pippin and even Saruman. Even with the stone siding with him that's still an achievement.

In the film? Too thick to light the signal fires. Pippin has to do it.

How about Faramir. In books he's wiser than his brother. Wise enough to reject the ring outright from the get go. He's well aware of the use it would be be but recognises that the price would be too high.

In the film? Doesn't resist for two seconds. Has to be shown the danger because he's too thick to see it himself.

Gandalf himself. In the book he's held captive by Saruman. He doesn't fight back because he's well aware of the difference in power between them. Only a complete idiot would engage in fisticuffs in that circumstance.

In the film? He goes at it hammer and tongs.

[birdtable]

Have to disagree with Jericho regarding Amazon Prime,,, approx half an hour before checking on this forum I purchased some light bulbs ... and yes I had the opportunity to purchase them cheaper but wait a week for delivery, instead I will have paid a bit more but get delivery tomorrow,, remember this order was placed at 17.00 hrs BST.. plus you do get occasionally very good prices on some products,, I have had some extremely good deals on box damaged electronics/computer stuff... and I get to watch American Gods which does look promising.

[Chips]

Before you got Amazon Prime, did you think it was supposed to be amazing? Just reading what it offers should disprove "amazing" unless you get excited about some pretty mundane stuff. Essentially it's next day delivery and then a selection of TV series, films etc that you can watch online. Amazon itself is pretty darned sweet (but you don't need prime to access/use it).

I do buy a lot from Amazon and always use next day delivery without having to pay a surplus. I watch several TV series/films streaming - great stuff.

But I wouldn't ever describe their Prime as "amazing". It's a service that's probably overpriced for given how much I use it, but it works just fine and offers a good benefit for its cost if you use it enough.

[X2-Illuminatus]

Superheros/ Almost anyone that ends in "man"
...

And here I thought the only amazing superhero would be the Amazing Spiderman.

[mrbadger]

2001 is just not a very good film. Its a great peice of cimematography, but not a good story.

2010 does a much better job at explaining what happened in the first film, and if anyone is at all inclined to watch it, I usually tell them to start with 2010, but the last person I told to was years back. I hasn't aged well.

LOTR was a much better radio series then it was a movie series, except for the singing. I hated the singing.

As for Star Wars, you know what, some things just don't age that well. To me the Original Star Wars Trilogy will always be classics full of fond memories, but that doesn't mean I watch them much. Maybe every few years, but no more often then that.

Same goes for Star Trek. I loved the Original Series, but I don't watch it.

I love the original cast movies (well except perhaps that first one and the one where god needed a spaceship...), but the only ones I re-watch are, in order of most to least Journey Home, Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock. All the other Star Trek Movies, new and old cast are owned, but ignored.

I own everything Star Trek. My wife and I are watching Voyager. In her case for the first time, but quite slowly, at this rate it'll take us the rest of this year unless we speed things up.

Last year we watched Babylon 5 and Stargate. I would never have watched either again completelly on my own, just the odd favourite episode.

I think most people who extol the virtues of the classic movies and TV are like that, we wax lyrical about how wonderful they are, but mostly we don't actually watch them again unless we have someone to share them with.

Personally I'm getting a bit tired of these superhero movies. Some of them are good (Deadpool, Guardians), but mostly now I'm just bored and want something different.

I'm afraid that Scarlett Johanson in a skinsuit yet again is the last straw for me. They didn't have to rip the guts out of Ghost in the Machine to get money from revealing her attributes yet again.

If they don't start making original movies soon I'm going to stop going to the cinema.

[pjknibbs]

How about Faramir. In books he's wiser than his brother. Wise enough to reject the ring outright from the get go. He's well aware of the use it would be be but recognises that the price would be too high.

In the film? Doesn't resist for two seconds. Has to be shown the danger because he's too thick to see it himself.

There's an interview with (I think) Phillipa Boyens in the DVD extras where she says, more or less, "So, we'd set the Ring up to be this horrible dangerous thing, and then when we got to the bit where Faramir says he wouldn't pick it up if it was sitting by the side of the road, we had to change that because it completely undermined the story of the Ring we'd been selling.". Frankly, this just shows a complete misunderstanding of the Ring and its power. In the books, the Ring is incredibly subtle--its malevolence works on people over the course of weeks, months, even years; only the most weak-minded and susceptible fall to its influence immediately, as Smeagol did.

Mind you, that wasn't the only place in the films that the writers completely misunderstood the concept of subtlety. See the Fellowship's escape from Moria, Boromir's death (took about a paragraph in the books, was a five-minute monologue in the movie), the passage through the Paths of the Dead, or the final resolution of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields for examples. The movies are great fantasy movies, don't get me wrong, but they're not the Lord of the Rings.

Oh, as for Amazon Prime: I bought it entirely to watch the Grand Tour, not for any other benefits, and I'm happy enough with it on that basis.

[Mightysword]

Regarding Amazon Prime: one should only get it if you deem the save on 2 days free shipping and cheap next day shipping are worth it. Everything else should be considered just a bonus, and not what the deal is about.

[mrbadger]

I keep forgetting tha Prime has other things apart from just delivery included. My daughter uses the video sometimes, but no-one else.

[Xenon_Slayer]

As someone who watches Twitch a lot, Amazon Prime really became worth it when they rolled out Twitch Prime. It gives you a free Twitch sub for a channel per month, which otherwise would cost $5. Seeing as I was subbed to a few, I could replace one of those with Prime. I actually ended up saving money.

At the time (8 months ago?), the Amazon Prime price in Germany was so much lower than the UK price. Something like 50 Euro Vs £70. Seems they realised and two month's later, they hiked it up to 69 Euro.

I've only watched a few things on Prime but it's good to know it's there.