A friend in need - What to do?.

[Morkonan]

...Not with Obamacare. It's against the law.

You can have access to insurance that covers pre-existing conditions, but that doesn't mean that you must be able to afford it... Now, if you can't "afford" it, that means that you can get assistance for that. But, if it's a choice between paying your mortgage, saving for your kid's education and "healthcare", meaning that you actually do make enough money to give a big chunk to an insurance company, then you're not going to get that "assistance." Instead, you'll just have to take a loss on the house and move someplace cheaper and your kid won't get to go to college unless they can find a job out of high-school that pays them enough so they can save up for it on their own or take a life-long-debt of a "student loan" that likely gives them an education they can't use to get a job that actually pays them enough to be able to pay off their student loan... ever...

So, yeah, there's Obamacare, which promises you that you'll have access to healthcare that will cover a pre-existing condition and, sure, if you can't afford to pay for it, the gubbermint will help out. But, if you happen to have any money laying around, no matter what you're doing with it, then you have to give it to the healthcare insurers, because they deserve it since... they've decided that they do.

BUT, private insurers aren't bound to have to sell in these markets and quite a few have pulled out their offerings. Why? Who knows? Maybe they're reassessing the idea that giving everyone access to insurance is a good idea, since that also means that they'd have to cover an insured's healthcare costs... Who'da thunk it?

If your employer isn't already paying for your healthcare in the US, at steeply discounted group policy rates, then you're extremely screwed over, muchly fooked.

OH, and woe unto you if you're "out of network" and get some sort of medical treatment from someone that's not signed up to get paid by your insurer. Why? Well, then that entity can bill you for WHATEVER AMOUNT THEY FEEL LIKE, since that particular "rate" hasn't been negotiated for you by an insurer you "hired" buy buying into their plan. Think of it as paying a horribly inflated "list price" for healthcare, while actual insurers pay a comparable pittance.

For some people, Obamacare was a godsend. But, for others, most of whom were barely affording their independently funded insurance policies, they're royally fooked over.

Just my opinion. I did some estimates online, using the State's exchange. Going through the market established by "Obamacare", with no pre-exists, my rates would be more than many people's mortgage payments. And, I'd be fooked if I actually wanted "convenient" healthcare.. since the "network" of providers singed up under even the best plan offered, is... fooked.

So, yeah, screw Obamacare, from my point of view. (Some, however, really did benefit and I don't begrudge them that one little bit.)

[Mightysword]

You can have access to insurance that covers pre-existing conditions, but that doesn't mean that you must be able to afford it... Now, if you can't "afford" it, that means that you can get assistance for that. But, if it's a choice between paying your mortgage, saving for your kid's education and "healthcare", meaning that you actually do make enough money to give a big chunk to an insurance company, then you're not going to get that "assistance." Instead, you'll just have to take a loss on the house and move someplace cheaper and your kid won't get to go to college unless they can find a job out of high-school that pays them enough so they can save up for it on their own or take a life-long-debt of a "student loan" that likely gives them an education they can't use to get a job that actually pays them enough to be able to pay off their student loan... ever...

So, yeah, there's Obamacare, which promises you that you'll have access to healthcare that will cover a pre-existing condition and, sure, if you can't afford to pay for it, the gubbermint will help out. But, if you happen to have any money laying around, no matter what you're doing with it, then you have to give it to the healthcare insurers, because they deserve it since... they've decided that they do.

I personally know a person, he's the son of a close friend of the family. Not a younger by any mean but he's not one that you will give a lot of respect to:

- He evade tax.
- He's a heavy drinker.
- He has a felony record.

And a few months ago we found out he's also a drug addicted, because he was hospitalized on cocaine overdose, his brain was bleeding and half of his body was paralyzied. Insurance? HAH, this guy doesn't even have an ID on him. Money? He drank away every single penny he has. Yet, the hospital he was admitted in took care of him for 4 months straight, and just last week they put him onto rehabilitation. Take a guess who was footing the bill ... nobody, so the hospital basically took one for the good guy. So naturally, it's pretty understandable when someone like the person mentioned here come around, they often got charged through the nose. They might think it's not fair, but there is this thing called "being responsible".

As for your other points, it's simply a priority of life, since you mentioned student loan let me use it as an example. When I was a student, I have a 5 "No" tenet:

- No drinking.
- No smoking.
- No driving.
- No Partying.
- No girlfriend.

Those together with other conservative lifestyle, in 10 years I received 3 decree of which 2 are post graduates while do not incur a debt. And no, it wasn't my family was rich, and I only worked part time. At the same time, I know many, some among relative incurs 30-40 grants already even before they get their first bachelor. They certainly have a better student life than me though, what with all the modern gadget to "help them study better" even though I think they spend more time on Facebook then in research, they also enjoy yearly summer vacation at various hotspot while I was working to earn money, they also have new car to drive around whether I made do with public transportation. You want to talk about having a job that pays for the education? Try me, the reason why I got the 3rd degree because the first two didn't suit my career path, and I paid 12000$ a year for it - completely out of pocket no financial aids or loan whatsoever. Oh yeah, I also only pay 100$/year for my cellphone to stay "connected", I often ask people if I take away their 80$/month smartphone, what would happen to them. Want a new computer? 80*12 - 100 = $860, that's like half of a decent computer right there. A lot of time, people pay for thing that they think they need while want to skimp over paying for what they must. Cry my river, but I have no sympathy. If this guy can save up for a new computer, then he can afford his insurance whether he likes it or not.


Obamacare is not a perfect law, and I'm actually on the wrong side of it rather then its beneficiary. But objectively I consider it a necessary law, to bring a big issue of American to the forefront. The main issue with our country is too many young people believe they don't need insurance, just to see their saving gone in a flash when they do need to go see a doctor, and that's only if they can pay. And if they can't pay? Well, someone will have to pay for it.

[greypanther]

A lot of time, people pay for thing that they think they need while want to skimp over paying for what they must. Cry my river, but I have no sympathy.

Good post Mightysword, thank you. The above quote sums up modern, society, imo. If things continue as they are now, then, Let's Face the Music and Dance

[Morkonan]

PS -

Sorry, thought I was in the "rant thread." May as well have been...

...Obamacare is not a perfect law, and I'm actually on the wrong side of it rather then its beneficiary. But objectively I consider it a necessary law, to bring a big issue of American to the forefront. The main issue with our country is too many young people believe they don't need insurance, just to see their saving gone in a flash when they do need to go see a doctor, and that's only if they can pay. And if they can't pay? Well, someone will have to pay for it.

I agree. Even as a fiscal conservative, I'm in favor of Obamacare. Why? Because the health insurance industries manipulate their coverage and charge whatever they want, practically at will with no oversight concerning how policies are written, only what the policy actually covers as it is written, no matter what the patient thought was covered.

In other words, they did not self-regulate and they have colluded together in order to split up the markets and set their own prices. And, if a policy is "too good?" They raise the rates until the holder can't pay... I know this, since it happened to me with a policy I had been paying on since I was 18 years old and didn't even use most of the time, paying for most prescriptions and all office visits out-of-pocket... and then they fooked me. (I had that policy, paid faithfully for over 30 years, didn't "take advantage" of it unless I really needed it... and they bent me over a table.)

So, I talked to someone. Someone who "knows" and was on the inside. They made "arrangements" for me, but it was impossible to stay on that same policy, since their objective was to completely phase that policy out because it wasn't returning a high enough margin for the individuals that still had it. Only a very few people could have had this particular policy and it was very particular to the region so.. they dumped the policy because its margin wasn't high enough on just those few people that still had it in force.

So, yeah, I'm in favor of Obamacare because the system is friggin rigged and broken. People can't afford to be sick, sometimes even with a health insurance policy. And, even then, how long can they afford to pay when insurance companies increase their rates at will in order to push people out of the "good" policies that are being phased out in a region into the "cheaper" policies that offer much less.

And, it's a rant thread, so I feel justified in ranting... If I want a new policy through the Exchange, it will cost me $1700.00 a month without a pre-existing condition and goodness help me if I actually get sick or injured... And, if I'm on the road? Screw me, I may as well keep a handgun in the car since I'd be easier to plant me wherever the car landed rather than to get me stabilized and to a provider in "the network" my insurer has "approved of."

:/

Yes, I want the American Healthcare Act fixed. I am for it, not only for myself, but for people that really need it. As it stands, though, too many companies are pulling out. With the current Republican bill, as it stands, it's going to get worse as companies chop up their policies into what amounts to "not even health insurance" because they won't have a minimum coverage mandate to follow.

[dargj2]

However...4.000$ for some dental care !?. I also told him he needs to leave the US asap..

4000 USD? Thats absolutely crazy. Im getting a wisdom tooth pulled in a few days at a private practice in the UK and its only costing 90 pounds, an NHS dentist would be cheaper still.

[Morkonan]

...4000 USD? Thats absolutely crazy. Im getting a wisdom tooth pulled in a few days at a private practice in the UK and its only costing 90 pounds, an NHS dentist would be cheaper still.

It can be pricey, depending. Often, at least in the US, an oral surgeon needs to perform the operation. Complications abound. For instance, I'm well past the prime age for removal and still have my lower wisdom teeth. Why? Because, since the roots are so wacky, there's a 50/50 chance my facial nerve would be effected because it threads right through the roots... Removing my lowers would involve a formal surgery to give the best chances for the least complications and for preserving my maxillary nerve endings leading to my lower lip. I made the decision to forego the surgery, at the time, because I liked having feeling in my lower lip when I kissed my then girlfriend.

BUT, overall, yes, healthcare like this, especially dentistry, which is not usually a standard coverage in private insurance, can be sometimes be unexpectedly pricey.

[Nanook]

However...4.000$ for some dental care !?. I also told him he needs to leave the US asap..

4000 USD? Thats absolutely crazy. Im getting a wisdom tooth pulled in a few days at a private practice in the UK and its only costing 90 pounds, an NHS dentist would be cheaper still.

Having an extraction is relatively cheap, at least compared to having a root canal and crown. The latter is a whole lot more work and requires a second specialist to administer anesthesia when required, and yet another to build the crown (usually sent out to a lab). And then you have the malpractice insurance costs that all medical and dental practioners must carry. And that ain't cheap!