X3:AP at position 6 in all-time best space games - RPG

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BugMeister
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X3:AP at position 6 in all-time best space games - RPG

Post by BugMeister » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 13:39

Don't know if this has been reported already, but great to see X3:AP at position 6 in the table:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/0 ... ace-games/

- Well done, Egosoft - that's a real achievement for a game released in 2012.. 8)
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by Xenon_Slayer » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 14:01

And rebirth mentioned in the first sentence :roll:

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Post by Antilogic » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 14:08

Xenon_Slayer wrote:And rebirth mentioned in the first sentence :roll:
Third paragraph. And OP, given their #1 game, the release date doesn't seem to matter.

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Post by birdtable » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 14:26

If ever a game needed investment and a bigger team then Evochron Legacy is the stand out winner .... Not sure I agree with the definition of Space Games ... No mention of Eve Online,, while I have never participated it surely deserves a top 15 entry.... Egosoft deserves more entries, none of their games are purely shooters which should be recognised and I may be biased but I think they were the Gold standard until.......

@Xenon_Slayer ... you can well roll your eyes,,, very tenuous ,,, but your statement is factual.....

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Re: X3:AP at position 6 in all-time best space games - RPG

Post by X2-Illuminatus » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 16:55

BugMeister wrote:- Well done, Egosoft - that's a real achievement for a game released in 2012.. 8)
It was actually released at the end of 2011 already. :)
birdtable wrote:No mention of Eve Online...
Read the last page! They probably didn't miss it, but simply put it on place number 16. ;) It's also mentioned as an alternative to X3AP.
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Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 16:58

Hmmm. Not really convinced about them including Descent, since that was always more of a first-person shooter in three dimensions than a proper space combat game...

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Post by mrbadger » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 19:15

Descent was a 3D FPS, not a space game.

Not that I didn't love it, I absolutelly adored it, played it for years and if I could figure out how to remap it so I didn't have to use my left hand I'd still play it, as I bought it on Gog intending to replay it a few months back.

(yes I know there are solutions, I've found them, I just haven't had the time to investigate them yet, and won't for a long time).

I barely played X3:AP (3 hours), by the time that came out I'd stopped having the spare time to game as much, so all I did was load it up and fly about a bit.

But I put 882 hours into X3:TC and untold months into X3. But I removed that from Steam for some reason that currently escapes me, so my playtime is lost.
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Post by theeclownbroze » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 21:23

And ofcourse I am absoultely not surprised that Freespace 2 is the best one on the list 8)

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Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 22:52

theeclownbroze wrote:And ofcourse I am absoultely not surprised that Freespace 2 is the best one on the list 8)
Oh, no, that's not a surprise. Mega-awesome beam cannons will do that to a game, I find. :wink:

(Plus there's the DIVE DIVE DIVE moment--anyone who's played the game will know what I'm talking about!).

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Post by UniTrader » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 22:53

pjknibbs wrote:
theeclownbroze wrote: (Plus there's the DIVE DIVE DIVE moment--anyone who's played the game will know what I'm talking about!).
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Post by jlehtone » Tue, 13. Jun 17, 23:38

But can these sequels, revivals and newcomers compete with the old classics for a place in our heart?
:gruebel: Of the 15 in the list I've seen at most four. :oops:

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Post by Morkonan » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 00:17

Xenon_Slayer wrote:And rebirth mentioned in the first sentence :roll:
/win :)

I loved a lot of the games on that list. Though, I'm a bit more partial to X3TC with a couple of mods rather than AP, but that's just me.

I do think that list has a LOT to say, though, about what players like and what critical reviewers really look at. I wouldn't say RPS is the best source for reviews, but it's not too shabby when it comes down to ranking games, that's for sure.

UI is obviously a concern and you'll see that mentioned in just about every mini-review in the list. Though, I'm not sure if my relationship with X3TC's UI would be one that I came to... "love." (Reviewer must have dropped a hit of acid or something..)

Controls - Virtually no mention of the impact of controls in these titles, but control options are mentioned when they're unique. Handling and flight characteristics are mentioned frequently as are options, like joystick/conventional. Aaaand.. there's not a bunch of hype about "Newtonian Physics" either, even in the one game in that list that heavily relies on it. (Evochron Mercenary) That may be because AI's have a difficult time handling Newtonian Physics. (Evochron Mercenary... :) ) Think "strafing" is an exploit in X3? Lol... that's nothing.

CONTENT - And, that's the big deal. Note how content is endlessly pushed as important, often more important than graphics and fancy flashy weapons and doo-dads. Even Elite: Dangerous gets dinged for it's lack of varied content, though engine sound somehow makes up for it according to the review. :)

That's the really big deal about these games. Content is king. X3 has content coming out of its ears as long as the player is willing to be a self-starter and take full advantage of the roleplaying opportunities in it's huge open-world sandbox.

IMO, sandboxy mode for these sorts of games is critical. It's so critical that I would place a division between genres, relegating "rail-like quest systems" as more of an adventure type of title than a space-sim. (Wing Commander, Tie Fighter to a certain extent) The true sandbox or semi-sandbox titles afford the player with many more choices to influence their experience of the "content" of the game. With Elite:Dangerous, for instance, they mention that players have somewhat overcome the lack of built-in content by making their own, banding together to explore the galaxy, coming up with some roleplaying opportunities, taking on different sorts of gameplay styles, etc, much in the same way as a great deal of X3 play ends up playing out.

X3 may not have made the very top of the list, but developers who pay attention to the good qualities outlined in this article for each of the games featured can easily create a top title if they incorporate and balance those qualities correctly.

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Post by BugMeister » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 01:58

my heavily modded X3:TC has been installed ever since it was released..
it's great to just dip in and tune it up every so often - an ace game..

- I like the Stock Exchange in AP - it gets things rolling pretty quickly, if you play it right.. :D :thumb_up:

- and there's something brilliant about the keyboard/mouse control that the X games give you..

- ever onward! :roll:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by Sorkvild » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 02:30

Alpion Prelude. No.
Terran Conflict YES. For a newcomer AP is pretty meh, player doesn't know what's going on tossed in the middle of a conflict, everything is overwhelming and generally wtf. TC is much more accessible.
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Post by birdtable » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 07:42

Reading BugMeister's comments above demonstrate what is so special about the X3 series ...
I did not like or use the Stock Exchange nor do I use mouse/keyboard as control system yet we both gained many many hrs of pleasure within that universe and it appears are still doing so.
No mention of mods that greatly enhanced/changed the experience,, XRM, Litcube and the best of all Xtended .....
No doubt in my mind X3 was the pinnacle of the Space genre and sadly appears to be never matched again by any developer.

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Post by mrbadger » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 09:05

I never really got into using mods, but for me X3 will always be the pinacle of the series.

The others were more technically advanced, and I know they had better features. Better features don't always make a better game though.

TC was fun because we finally got to see Earth ships, but once I got out of Earth space I never went back, because the collision avoidance AI wasn't good enough to handle the ship and station size, so that was a shame.

The others I essentially ignored after trying them a little. I always bought them, because I want to support Egosoft, including that awful Rebirth, but they have yet to really improve on X3, to my mind.

By now you really need to start asking can they still do it?
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Post by Morkonan » Wed, 14. Jun 17, 19:49

mrbadger wrote:...TC was fun because we finally got to see Earth ships, but once I got out of Earth space I never went back, because the collision avoidance AI wasn't good enough to handle the ship and station size, so that was a shame.
This is a known issue, of course. But... it's beautiful in Terran Space, once things get going.

When I first started playing X3TC, I read the manual, realized that it was a waste of time, then ran off to the 'net to learn about the game. (And, I'm still here...)

I found out that my chosen start, Terran Commander, was gonna be rough, since Terran space was virtually doomed without the player acting to preserve it. So, I grabbed my notebook, sat down, and started single-handedly saving Terra. It was one of the most in-depth strategic planning I've done for a game.

Once I revitalized Terran space, saved everything, and started pushing trade to new limits, the sectors came alive. Stuff everywhere.. huge convoys of tradeships, Terran fleets and capital ships, hundreds of ships in a sector... glorious.

I didn't travel through those sectors a great deal, for obvious reasons, but when I did, I was always very proud to see the results of my efforts. And, seeing a Terran fleet on patrol was always a treat.

I only lost a few ships to collisions, mostly CS M5 trainers on their routes, since they have to dock, and some damage to a couple of traders, here and there, but nothing really severe. M5s, of course, have the worst of it, and then the much larger ships undocking upon purchase, but that's for any sector.
..The others I essentially ignored after trying them a little. I always bought them, because I want to support Egosoft, including that awful Rebirth, but they have yet to really improve on X3, to my mind.

By now you really need to start asking can they still do it?
I think they can.

Improve the engine, upgrade the graphics just a little bit, get someone else to design the UI.... (Seriously, I don't know what it is, and no offense meant, but I have yet to see anyone in the EU design a decent UI. Maybe a couple of the larger studios/producers, but certainly not commonplace, that's for sure. I don't know why. Possibly planning issues and evolving requirements?) Some more mission types or some sort of dynamic mission system that would, ocassionally, "build" a mission, inserting key elements from a list of variables or something, and several quest lines, some unique starts, the possibility for player-owned sectors/station takeovers (basically similar to existing mods), etc... Heck, I'm even fine with the pathfinding, to be honest, but options like Bounce and, perhaps, some finely tuned collision boxes for certain stations, etc..

They've made some great games in the X series. Rebirth is what it is, so I'll give it a pass, simply because some people have liked it.

But, a true X4 is what I think most fans want and if they stick to the X3TC model, perhaps with a few elements from AP and some "war" options for those so inclined, I think they'll do just fine.

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