X4 - Should we scrap boosters and stick to jump drive?

[Killjaeden]

Plutarch had the technology as does Terracorp[...]

Background is irrelevant for this topic. It must first and foremost offer good gameplay! Sectorsizes and traveltimes have a huge impact on so many aspects of the game...

It would be good if you could expand on Long Range Scanners to incorporate other things to find like derelict space ships to land on and loot [...]

Waste of time. Deepspace things and long range scanning has a cool ring to it but it isnt, if it is not all handcrafted. If it is supposed to be dynamically generated it is incredibly boring gameplay if you actually explore the game concept. Fly around in almost empty space and press button (or not even that) until you find free stuff, but more likely nothing for several hours.

[RAVEN.myst]

Plutarch had the technology as does Terracorp[...]

Background is irrelevant for this topic.

I couldn't disagree more - lore (to me, and no doubt to some, perhaps even many others) is extremely important, as is continuity. The lack of the latter leads to disjointed-feeling "chapters" - and that is, let's be honest here, already bad enough the way EgoSoft craft their main plotlines - since X3TC, there has been nothing but huge gaps between titles, so no need to make this aspect even worse.

It would be good if you could expand on Long Range Scanners to incorporate other things to find like derelict space ships to land on and loot [...]

Waste of time. Deepspace things and long range scanning has a cool ring to it but it isnt, if it is not all handcrafted. If it is supposed to be dynamically generated it is incredibly boring gameplay if you actually explore the game concept. Fly around in almost empty space and press button (or not even that) until you find free stuff, but more likely nothing for several hours.

I can think of at least one way to make it more interesting: following clues, or a bread-crumb trail - and not necessarily linear, ie. not necessarily literally a trail of breadcrumb equivalents leading straight to the "point of interest". A hybrid procedural approach could be used to randomize it somewhat (so, procedural assembly of handcrafted components) - yes, that will never equate to well handcrafted content, but I believe it could be enjoyable if the sites themselves were made interesting enough - a xenomorph-infested space hulk; an abandoned mine with some salvageable equipment and/or minerals; a biotech lab or cloning facility, perhaps with, unbeknownst to the player, a time-limit before the owners return, with whatever consequences that may entail - combat, negotiation, a benevolent alien race willing to share some tech, etc.; a rogue planetoid or comet, either of no import, or rich in something valuable, or with a crashed Voyager-style probe, or perhaps on a collision-course with some settlement or the like, or perhaps forming part of a "hidden" plot and providing some clue to it; a nebula - perhaps rich in something, and/or dangerous, and/or it's a space-dwelling energy-based life form (with perhaps a moral choice - mine it but injure/kill it, or leave it alone and miss out on a big payday or tech advance); an enigmatic asteroid field comprised of unusually shaped rocks and/or with a very anomalous composition, which again could be an element of a plot (or not); a small black hole (can such even exist?) - I'll leave the possibilities to your imagination (assuming it's up to the task); a dark matter cloud; a gravitational or electromagnetic anomaly of some sort; a secret base (limitless possibilities here - storage depots, top secret weapons research labs, illegal tech-labs, black markets, mysterious stations of life forms so alien to us that we can't even fathom the possible purpose - ascension nexus? Consciousness storage facility? Technological afterlife?); communications relays; spy stations; etc etc etc...

OK, as you can see, I could literally keep on going here and build an even taller wall of text, given time and the inclination (but I'd rather get back to playing something instead), so my point here: claiming that creating deep-space content, even procedurally, would be a boring waste of time merely demonstrates either: a failure of imagination, or: total lack of confidence in the creativity of EgoSoft content developers. In the latter case, I'm sure there are plenty of willing volunteers around with creative ideas to submit. However, making it diverse enough to not get repetitive would certainly involve considerable effort, and if done in a totally automated/procedural fashion then yes, I think it would be blandly repetitive. I believe the key is not just in the nature of the site itself, but also in the manner in which it is sought out - yes, just quartering empty space while pushing a scanner button is not the way forward. But then, that also implies a rather static setup - it need not be (especially by implementing a universe model that incorporates motion of celestial bodies and vaguely realistic scales, as no two trips even between the same two points would traverse the same space, AND the random finds would be in motion, too.)

[Killjaeden]

I can think of at least one way to make it more interesting: following clues, or a bread-crumb trail

which compacts the entire deep space thing tremendeously. Because suddenly you know where things are. You are not stumbling on this by accident or because you looked around, you are guided in on it, because you would never be able to find it without this guidance.

If you can just stumble upon these things you mentioned, they wouldnt be in deep space (unless your definition of deep space is very shallow). If they are far out, you would would not find them without beeing guided to them - because space, even in X series, is vast and a miniscule minority will be filled with things you can actually discover -> Chance of accidental discovery goes to 0. The 3rd dimension added compared to "world based" games is the main "problem" here.

I believe it could be enjoyable if the sites themselves were made interesting enough - a xenomorph-infested space hulk; an abandoned mine with some salvageable equipment and/or minerals; a biotech lab or cloning facility, perhaps with, unbeknownst to the player, a time-limit before the owners return, with whatever consequences that may entail - combat, negotiation, [...]

And how many times do you think that will be exciting to repeat each? 3 times? 10 times? And how many of such completely handcrafted events and everything that comes with it (space hulk, bio tech lab, ... who is going to model all that?) do you need to make this non repetitive?

Stellaris has random events that add flavor. There are lots of them. And yet, you will run into the same events after compartively little playtime. Creating such events in stellaris is "cheap" as in little work. Compare that to X series. What you are supposed to see needs to be modelled. And that takes lots of time. Then the attached logic and gameplay needs to be put in place. You can imagine all these things but can Egosoft build enough to make it interesting? No is the answer, because their ressources (time and money) are fairly limited.

What you are describing works for plots yes. It doesnt work as a general sandbox concept. Once you have seen the biolab with the gene army or whatever the 3rd time, it becomes repitious and has nothing to do with exploration anymore. Especially not when you are just guided to this place. Your visit is pre-planned so to speak. It will become as exciting as the "bring back abandoned ship" mission in X3.

it need not be (especially by implementing a universe model that incorporates motion of celestial bodies and vaguely realistic scales, as no two trips even between the same two points would traverse the same space, AND the random finds would be in motion, too.)

And that is supposed to help somebody finding a thing without guidance how? It makes it even harder, because if you deliberately search you can't define one spot you have been at as "search complete", when it's all moving in relation to each other.

[RAVEN.myst]

I can think of at least one way to make it more interesting: following clues, or a bread-crumb trail

which compacts the entire deep space thing tremendeously. Because suddenly you know where things are. You are not stumbling on this by accident or because you looked around, you are guided in on it, because you would never be able to find it without this guidance.

If you can just stumble upon these things you mentioned, they wouldnt be in deep space (unless your definition of deep space is very shallow). If they are far out, you would would not find them without beeing guided to them - because space, even in X series, is vast and a miniscule minority will be filled with things you can actually discover -> Chance of accidental discovery goes to 0. The 3rd dimension added compared to "world based" games is the main "problem" here.

How do you figure that? The trail has to start somewhere - that can be in a clue found randomly in space via scanning, by unearthing something somewhere in amongst ruins or minerals, as a tip earned or purchased from an NPC, as a clue looted from a special enemy - again, the options abound, and INCLUDE some that depend on randomness and the vastness of space - but are not limited to that.

I believe it could be enjoyable if the sites themselves were made interesting enough - a xenomorph-infested space hulk; an abandoned mine with some salvageable equipment and/or minerals; a biotech lab or cloning facility, perhaps with, unbeknownst to the player, a time-limit before the owners return, with whatever consequences that may entail - combat, negotiation, [...]

And how many times do you think that will be exciting to repeat each? 3 times? 10 times? And how many of such completely handcrafted events and everything that comes with it (space hulk, bio tech lab, ... who is going to model all that?) do you need to make this non repetitive?

I'm afraid that it seems you are assuming two things here: 1. that this content would make up a dominant portion of game content - this is NOT what I'm shooting for at all, because then yes, as with any diet consisting mainly of a few things (however tasty), it will get old very quickly; and 2. that these items/sites would be frequent - again, this is NOT my intent at all: these locations or whatever would ideally be quite/very rare, in order to be made more special - overabundance of anything devalues it. We are talking on the level of Easter Eggs of sorts - but not in fixed locations, where the player him/herself needs to play long and well, and not simply look up a walkthrough on the Internet for how to find something. Some of the sites/objects could lead to significant but not pivotal plot developments (ie. no main plot should ever, imo, rely on one of these), and perhaps in a few cases offer alternative solutions to main-plot goals - this would allow for the *possibility* of a seasoned and jaded veteran with multiple playthroughs under his belt, to stumble upon one of these, and be pleasantly surprised by the fact that he/she can now complete the main plot (or more realistically, a section of it) in a completely different manner.

Stellaris has random events that add flavor. There are lots of them. And yet, you will run into the same events after compartively little playtime. Creating such events in stellaris is "cheap" as in little work. Compare that to X series. What you are supposed to see needs to be modelled. And that takes lots of time. Then the attached logic and gameplay needs to be put in place. You can imagine all these things but can Egosoft build enough to make it interesting? No is the answer, because their ressources (time and money) are fairly limited.

To the first part of the above, yes, I understand this, and I've even seen it fail at least once (in Sins of a Solar Empire one of the expansions, something like Stellar Phenomena or the like, added certain randomized effects/events - unfortunately, they were done rather slapdash so they look cheap and nasty, and also they are too "swingy" - the game is meant to be a competitive game in at least some modes of play, so random events that tilt the balance are not desirable; while the second factor isn't really an issue in a 1P sandbox, the former certainly would be, and even more so - we would be quite painfully aware of "cheap and nasty", so definitely effort and care would have to be exercised - it would be a non-trivial task for sure, but I contest the notion that it's *necessarily* absolutely outside the scope of ES's capabilities - that would be quitter talk if it were coming from them, but since we are merely bystanders, I would refer to it as nay-saying (which is negative and non-constructive.) Now, to be realistic: I'm not holding my breath for implementation of the ideas I throw around But I do dare to hope that maybe, just maybe, someone in a decision-making position is intrigued (and gutsy!) enough to run it by the developers, and that they in turn are intrigued (and gutsy!) enough to say "hell, let's try this".

What you are describing works for plots yes. It doesnt work as a general sandbox concept. Once you have seen the biolab with the gene army or whatever the 3rd time, it becomes repitious and has nothing to do with exploration anymore. Especially not when you are just guided to this place. Your visit is pre-planned so to speak. It will become as exciting as the "bring back abandoned ship" mission in X3.

Well, yes and no - as I intimated in my previous post, some of those locations could be results of plots that are randomly or emergently discovered - so, optional side-plots/mini-plots. Integrating them into such would be optimal. Also, as I explained previously in this post, I do not mean for the player to be spammed willy-nilly by these - they should be rare enough to constitute major discoveries, to be considered "special". In the case of plot-involved ones, they could be as rare as "unique" - ie. you will only find one of it in a particular playthrough, though its location will be different each time and (ideally) some details within it are randomly/semi-randomly generated (such as enemy spawn composition, for example - just to keep the player on his/her toes.) Non-plot-tied ones should still, in my opinion, be rare, and ideally not be repeated, though some perhaps once, maybe twice - but as you say, those would be lessened by the repetition, and thus would end up being more minor discoveries. For example, abandoned mines would likely be of the more generic sort for the most part - BUT, how about sometimes combining aspects? So now we have an abandoned mine and, if the player is too perfunctory, misses a perhaps fairly obvious clue that "there is something else here" (WHY was THIS mine abandoned? Was it overrun by those persky xenomorphs? Did it stray too close to a star and get lethally irradiated? Had it been set up in a territorial race's turf and they came and "evicted" the operation? Was the mine a front for some other sort of operation [which, perhaps with a closer inspection, can be found behind a wall in the back room, or whatever] which either terminated, or was exposed? Etc. Etc. Etc...)

Look, I do understand that a lot of the scope of this is likely in the "pipe dream" category - particularly if we look at (and I'm sorry, EgoSoft, I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm just being honest) how station interiors in Rebirth are implemented. Still, one can dream, yes?

it need not be (especially by implementing a universe model that incorporates motion of celestial bodies and vaguely realistic scales, as no two trips even between the same two points would traverse the same space, AND the random finds would be in motion, too.)

And that is supposed to help somebody finding a thing without guidance how? It makes it even harder, because if you deliberately search you can't define one spot you have been at as "search complete", when it's all moving in relation to each other.

OK, I'm afraid here you are missing the point somewhat, and kinda contradicting yourself: on the one hand you criticize some prior points because they would require tedious thorough examination of vast amounts of space; yet on the other hand you naysay other ideas because they would contract space. Relative motion of celestial bodies combined with vast space obviates both of those: the whole point of rare and remote sites that can be scanned by good fortune or located by following otherwise-acquired clues is that it is NOT about painstakingly scanning each cubic centimetre. In fact, making that an impossible task is a major point in all this, as the vastness of space is such that such a task would be unimaginably impractical. This is where that random generation comes into play - on a given "warp" (or whatever) between two points of significance, there could be an infinitesimally small chance of stumbling on something (adjusted upward by object's mass/volume/energy output) - consider, for example, flying through the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter's orbits - the chances of actually hitting something are really really small (asteroid belts in Rebirth, and space games and sci-fi movies etc in general, are routinely depicted as being absurdly dense). However, if you have specialised surveying/exploration sensors, you then increase those odds into the realms of the possible in practical terms. IMPORTANT: The object need not exist in-game until such time as it is "discovered" - the act of observing it successfully causes it to come into existence, so to speak [Hmmm, could name the deep-space sensors the Schrodinger Searchlight, or Quantum Scanner, or something similar] - ie. a successful roll against the sensor's chance of success instantiates the location or the clue that initiates the trail to it. Would quartering every cubic foot of space increase the odds of finding something? Yes, but only insofar as it is leading to more sensor success checks to be rolled - the same effect could be achieved more easily by running up and down the same route and letting the "dice" get rerolled repeatedly (this ONLY makes sense in a dynamically moving universe, though, from a consistency point of view, as otherwise shit is just materialising where it wasn't five minutes ago "I've been driving on this road for 15 years, and never before was that tree there - it wasn't there when I came by this morning either! What's going on here?" Answer: booze! ) This would have the side-effect of not-yet-generated content not consuming system resources - it gets put into memory only when it has been discovered (which I'm sure is how a lot of even permanent content is being handled whenever possible, to conserve RAM.)

There are no absolutes in space, and there is no such thing as a truly "stationary" object - be it in so-called "outer" space or your bathroom cabinet - it is all relative to a particular frame of reference. Therefore, the method of "systematically" searching all of a game's space volume isn't really remotely realistic - it makes more sense to radiate the intensity of search/exploration activities as decaying probability curves radiating from landmarks/points of interest. This is even how such tasks are performed for real: a simple spiral search pattern is initiated usually at a point of highest probability (although sometimes dictated instead by convenience) and expands; every successive "whorl" is longer and thus each revolution takes longer - the farther you get from your landmark, the slower the searching goes. Sometimes the "landmark" is not a point, but a line - say, a road, for instance: if you are looking for derailed trains, you start your search AT the railway track, not 5 miles away. In a vast and mostly empty space, points of reference are even more important, because you don't have an environmental frame of reference. Anyhow, I'm digressing on a wild tangent here - when I started this part, I had some "very important" point to make - I have no idea what it may have been! hahahahah

So, time for me to go actually PLAY something! More fun...
Happy hunting!

[Killjaeden]

My initial statement was (intended to say) that deepspace exploration in a purely sandbox context can not be made fun and engaging. Deepspace exploration as in , using some game mechanic to do it and to do it repeatedly many times at any time the player decides.

You are speaking of plot/sub-plots, easter eggs or other unique one-time-events involving deep space. Two totally different things.
Because this

the whole point of rare and remote sites that can be scanned by good fortune or located by following otherwise-acquired clues is that it is NOT about painstakingly scanning each cubic centimetre.

has nothing to do with "i deliberately decide to search deep space for things, now."

"I've been driving on this road for 15 years, and never before was that tree there - it wasn't there when I came by this morning either! What's going on here?"

When you find objects along your standard routes or very near it, it can't be considered as "deep space". It may originate from deepspace, but you are not in it. While getting to explore objects from deepspace is a nice concept for (again) plots or one-time-events, it doesnt work as sandbox gameplay concept either.

radiating from landmarks/points of interest

Works well in planetary based games, and in densely packed space games, but not in "deep space" that is primarily void of anything. The point here is that in deepspace you can't hide anything in an interesting way like you could on some planetary world. You can only hide it by distance. And it doesnt matter if you hide a crate or a gigantic station. The only difference between both is distance until it can be seen/picked up by scanners.
If you use celestial bodies (or nebulas) as landmarks instead of self-created ones, the "deepspace" suddenly becomes very shallow again - and incompatible to "infinite" sandbox gameplay, because you only have a limited number of celestial bodies, unless your game is No Gameplay Sky.

[spankahontis]

I can think of at least one way to make it more interesting: following clues, or a bread-crumb trail

which compacts the entire deep space thing tremendeously. Because suddenly you know where things are. You are not stumbling on this by accident or because you looked around, you are guided in on it, because you would never be able to find it without this guidance.

If you can just stumble upon these things you mentioned, they wouldnt be in deep space (unless your definition of deep space is very shallow). If they are far out, you would would not find them without beeing guided to them - because space, even in X series, is vast and a miniscule minority will be filled with things you can actually discover -> Chance of accidental discovery goes to 0. The 3rd dimension added compared to "world based" games is the main "problem" here.

It wouldn't be placed customizable, such unique missions would be procedurally generated (which most missions in Rebirth generally are), so Egosoft wouldn't be going crazy on new scripting as allot of what needs to be done is already in the game.
You fly into empty space, a percentage chance of the missions triggering if you long range scan a specific region of space.

OK, I'm afraid here you are missing the point somewhat, and kinda contradicting yourself: on the one hand you criticize some prior points because they would require tedious thorough examination of vast amounts of space; yet on the other hand you naysay other ideas because they would contract space. Relative motion of celestial bodies combined with vast space obviates both of those: the whole point of rare and remote sites that can be scanned by good fortune or located by following otherwise-acquired clues is that it is NOT about painstakingly scanning each cubic centimetre. In fact, making that an impossible task is a major point in all this, as the vastness of space is such that such a task would be unimaginably impractical. This is where that random generation comes into play - on a given "warp" (or whatever) between two points of significance, there could be an infinitesimally small chance of stumbling on something (adjusted upward by object's mass/volume/energy output) - consider, for example, flying through the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter's orbits - the chances of actually hitting something are really really small (asteroid belts in Rebirth, and space games and sci-fi movies etc in general, are routinely depicted as being absurdly dense). However, if you have specialised surveying/exploration sensors, you then increase those odds into the realms of the possible in practical terms. IMPORTANT: The object need not exist in-game until such time as it is "discovered" - the act of observing it successfully causes it to come into existence, so to speak [Hmmm, could name the deep-space sensors the Schrodinger Searchlight, or Quantum Scanner, or something similar] - ie. a successful roll against the sensor's chance of success instantiates the location or the clue that initiates the trail to it. Would quartering every cubic foot of space increase the odds of finding something? Yes, but only insofar as it is leading to more sensor success checks to be rolled - the same effect could be achieved more easily by running up and down the same route and letting the "dice" get rerolled repeatedly (this ONLY makes sense in a dynamically moving universe, though, from a consistency point of view, as otherwise shit is just materialising where it wasn't five minutes ago "I've been driving on this road for 15 years, and never before was that tree there - it wasn't there when I came by this morning either! What's going on here?" Answer: booze! ) This would have the side-effect of not-yet-generated content not consuming system resources - it gets put into memory only when it has been discovered (which I'm sure is how a lot of even permanent content is being handled whenever possible, to conserve RAM.)

There are no absolutes in space, and there is no such thing as a truly "stationary" object - be it in so-called "outer" space or your bathroom cabinet - it is all relative to a particular frame of reference. Therefore, the method of "systematically" searching all of a game's space volume isn't really remotely realistic - it makes more sense to radiate the intensity of search/exploration activities as decaying probability curves radiating from landmarks/points of interest. This is even how such tasks are performed for real: a simple spiral search pattern is initiated usually at a point of highest probability (although sometimes dictated instead by convenience) and expands; every successive "whorl" is longer and thus each revolution takes longer - the farther you get from your landmark, the slower the searching goes. Sometimes the "landmark" is not a point, but a line - say, a road, for instance: if you are looking for derailed trains, you start your search AT the railway track, not 5 miles away. In a vast and mostly empty space, points of reference are even more important, because you don't have an environmental frame of reference. Anyhow, I'm digressing on a wild tangent here - when I started this part, I had some "very important" point to make - I have no idea what it may have been! hahahahah

So, time for me to go actually PLAY something! More fun...
Happy hunting!

I've watched enough Universe documentaries to know that Space is full of wonders and scary things that cause massive damage.

- Asteroid field showers (Causing great damage to stations/ships alike)
- Micro Asteroid shower (Like bullets that can decimate ships if you fly into them.)
- Balls of heated plasma coming from stars that can damage shields and systems of a ship.
- Black Holes.
- Mini Black Holes.
- Gravitational anomalies.
- Gas clouds that can be ignited causing massive explosions.

[UniTrader]

I can think of at least one way to make it more interesting: following clues, or a bread-crumb trail

which compacts the entire deep space thing tremendeously. Because suddenly you know where things are. You are not stumbling on this by accident or because you looked around, you are guided in on it, because you would never be able to find it without this guidance.

If you can just stumble upon these things you mentioned, they wouldnt be in deep space (unless your definition of deep space is very shallow). If they are far out, you would would not find them without beeing guided to them - because space, even in X series, is vast and a miniscule minority will be filled with things you can actually discover -> Chance of accidental discovery goes to 0. The 3rd dimension added compared to "world based" games is the main "problem" here.

It wouldn't be placed customizable, such unique missions would be procedurally generated (which most missions in Rebirth generally are), so Egosoft wouldn't be going crazy on new scripting as allot of what needs to be done is already in the game.
You fly into empty space, a percentage chance of the missions triggering if you long range scan a specific region of space.

so basically "fly in a random direction and you will eventually find something"? i dont like that approach. seems too pre-determined that you must find something eventually, even when you just fly straight without any logic or system behind it.
what about placing "Event Points" in the Sectors (randomly shuffled, but consistend within a Savegame), distributed in such a way that you are very unlikely to find any with random Scounting (each is at least 50km away from the closest sign of Civilisation, possibly even in the hundreds), BUT you can buy Sensor Drones which can be sent scouting in your looking Direction. They will give Feedback when they encounter something and then you can have a look yourself what they encountered. Also you can (and should) send off many of them simultaneously to cover a bigger Area/Volume in the same time. Also sucess is not pre-determined but depends on Luck and how good your Search System is. Also allows the Trading with Hints for hidden Stuff (either get Hints where to find Stuff or Trade the Findings of your Drones for a quick Buck if you dont want to spend the time looking after them)

[spankahontis]

I can think of at least one way to make it more interesting: following clues, or a bread-crumb trail

which compacts the entire deep space thing tremendeously. Because suddenly you know where things are. You are not stumbling on this by accident or because you looked around, you are guided in on it, because you would never be able to find it without this guidance.

If you can just stumble upon these things you mentioned, they wouldnt be in deep space (unless your definition of deep space is very shallow). If they are far out, you would would not find them without beeing guided to them - because space, even in X series, is vast and a miniscule minority will be filled with things you can actually discover -> Chance of accidental discovery goes to 0. The 3rd dimension added compared to "world based" games is the main "problem" here.

It wouldn't be placed customizable, such unique missions would be procedurally generated (which most missions in Rebirth generally are), so Egosoft wouldn't be going crazy on new scripting as allot of what needs to be done is already in the game.
You fly into empty space, a percentage chance of the missions triggering if you long range scan a specific region of space.

so basically "fly in a random direction and you will eventually find something"? i dont like that approach. seems too pre-determined that you must find something eventually, even when you just fly straight without any logic or system behind it.
what about placing "Event Points" in the Sectors (randomly shuffled, but consistend within a Savegame), distributed in such a way that you are very unlikely to find any with random Scounting (each is at least 50km away from the closest sign of Civilisation, possibly even in the hundreds), BUT you can buy Sensor Drones which can be sent scouting in your looking Direction. They will give Feedback when they encounter something and then you can have a look yourself what they encountered. Also you can (and should) send off many of them simultaneously to cover a bigger Area/Volume in the same time. Also sucess is not pre-determined but depends on Luck and how good your Search System is. Also allows the Trading with Hints for hidden Stuff (either get Hints where to find Stuff or Trade the Findings of your Drones for a quick Buck if you dont want to spend the time looking after them)

Can do, a placeholder that appears in every empty zone, a percentage chance to trigger an event?

Or better still only certain events trigger per sector.. A system rich in asteroids makes asteroid showers more frequent, unique missions like a damaged ship to rescue, explore, repair/claim?
I liked how you had unique missions in Toride like the distress calls and the Xenon Incursion.. Give Systems unique natural phenomenon and events; it gives each system it's unique personality and for each X Player will draw them to a particular favourite based on their play style?

In a system like DeVries, even markers that cause balls of plasma that can damage ships, like if a hacker ship deactivates capital ships.

Give space natural phenomena, beautiful, but lethal. Capable of shaking up the economy.

I like your idea of trading hints with NPC's.
Or go one further, you encounter NPC's on stations with secrets that can unlock unique missions, imagine the fun you could have if you come across an NPC at a bar who talks about a huge cache of treasure, do a number of random missions or take him along with you to find this treasure?
Or an NPC tells you of a mining complex that is looking for an able pilot to conduct a series of chain missions for a huge reward?
The number of ideas for new missions and more interactivity and roleplay on stations that would actually give you reasons to go on stations would be wide and exciting.

[Lord Crc]

Give space natural phenomena, beautiful, but lethal. Capable of shaking up the economy.

Indeed. The abundance of asteroids in the inner systems in Albion always seemed so off to me. Asteroid mining should be done in the outer systems, with the extra hazards that brings.

[UniTrader]

Can do, a placeholder that appears in every empty zone, a percentage chance to trigger an event?

Or better still only certain events trigger per sector.. A system rich in asteroids makes asteroid showers more frequent, unique missions like a damaged ship to rescue, explore, repair/claim?
I liked how you had unique missions in Toride like the distress calls and the Xenon Incursion.. Give Systems unique natural phenomenon and events; it gives each system it's unique personality and for each X Player will draw them to a particular favourite based on their play style?

you entirely missed my point. the Events should NOT be randomly triggered on Zone change in my opinion, because than it has nothing to do with Searching, but with triggering the Zone Change event as often as possible to find something. and on second thought this vaguely resembles a Skinner Box. here an explaination what that is and why its bad for Games

My Idea was to Place all Findables at the Beginning of a new Game somewhere in the Vast Universe, so systemetically searching makes sense. And because Space is Huge also give the Player the Tools he needs to find these Needles in the Haystack (like Metal Detectors) - because in Space the Haystack is far bigger than in a Game played on some kind of Surface.

[Snafu_X3]

Can do, a placeholder that appears in every empty zone, a percentage chance to trigger an event?

Or better still only certain events trigger per sector.. A system rich in asteroids makes asteroid showers more frequent, unique missions like a damaged ship to rescue, explore, repair/claim?[...]

you entirely missed my point. the Events should NOT be randomly triggered on Zone change in my opinion, because than it has nothing to do with Searching, but with triggering the Zone Change event as often as possible to find something. and on second thought this vaguely resembles a Skinner Box. [...][/url]

Agreed WRT Skinner Box, but how about placing a 'seed' (ie a possibility for an event to occur) for such an item/event in (every, or randomised?) system (whether established or 'new') that only responds to LRS pings? Chance of discovery would be remote (say <0.0001% chance or less) in established areas, ramping up to small (say 1% chance) in areas calculated upon the distance from aforesaid 'established' zones? I don't /think/ that would hit CPU too hard as the seed wouldn't be activated until discovery, but you (UniT) know better than I..

As Temporary Zones are created/annulled unless some entity has a presence there the 'seed' should similarly be 'annulled' when there is no presence. This means <playership> has to fly/jump post-haste to that area before the automated <whatever> leaves it.. a possible balanced use for the JD & its coolant?

The thinking behind this is that every established zone (whether by player or NPC) has already pretty much mapped out that volume, therefore a 'chance discovery' will be really rare in those areas. Exploration ships will have the tech (scanners), personnel (a further use for Engineers? A new 'Science Officer' addition from the Scientist class, with specifics relating to their skills?) & a fast ship capable of getting out of trouble quickly if necessary. It shouldn't be well-armed/armoured tho: the space is needed for science analysis gear & there's little to do with next to no combat capabilities: it relies on its speed+maneuverability to survive

Obviously these are all off-the-cuff ideas, but it may get more ppl thinking..

[monster.zero]

The highway and booster system makes the universe incredible tiny. Makes it like a small little village where you drive your car to the store or maybe the mall.

Having jumpdrive would expand the universe immensely.



You have 2 ways to spend the players time:

1. Player spends time docking, unloading/loading, buying/selling, mining, fighting, Spends VERY little time travelling. Insta jumps to your gameplay mechanic.

Star Citizen is like this.


2. Player spends majority of time traveling, piloting the spacecraft. Unloading/loading cargo takes seconds. Outfitting takes seconds. Buying ships is a button press...no walking about the station..just get the stuff and get on with travelling.

Elite Dangerous is like this.

[UniTrader]

The highway and booster system makes the universe incredible tiny. Makes it like a small little village where you drive your car to the store or maybe the mall.

Having jumpdrive would expand the universe immensely.

err.. what??? [ external image ] i think the Jumpdrive in X2/X3 was one of the worst things for Gameplay X3 had because you (and everyone else) could travel instantly anywhere for an apple and an Egg.. no need to think about how to get around Dangerous Areas (either yourself or how you will build your empire around it) - just install and use JD on any Ship for little cost and all challenge regarding this instantly disappeared... and also it practically turned the Universe into a Village. not the other way around.

Also if you spend your Travel Time with Travelling you are X-ing wrong. What about managing your Assets during that time? (Ordering new Ships, adjusting Prices, checking Offers for your Traders, moving your Fleet around...) the issue with the Travel Times should not be solved by nulling the Travel Times but by filling them with Stuff to do...

[spankahontis]

The highway and booster system makes the universe incredible tiny. Makes it like a small little village where you drive your car to the store or maybe the mall.

Having jumpdrive would expand the universe immensely.

err.. what??? [ external image ] i think the Jumpdrive in X2/X3 was one of the worst things for Gameplay X3 had because you (and everyone else) could travel instantly anywhere for an apple and an Egg.. no need to think about how to get around Dangerous Areas (either yourself or how you will build your empire around it) - just install and use JD on any Ship for little cost and all challenge regarding this instantly disappeared... and also it practically turned the Universe into a Village. not the other way around.

Also if you spend your Travel Time with Travelling you are X-ing wrong. What about managing your Assets during that time? (Ordering new Ships, adjusting Prices, checking Offers for your Traders, moving your Fleet around...) the issue with the Travel Times should not be solved by nulling the Travel Times but by filling them with Stuff to do...

Bang on!

That was one of my favourite parts to build a large enough fleet to police Xenon Sectors that cut gate routes in half.
Build Nav Beacons, build Laser Towers and have Destroyers hold the fort.

Instantaneous travel was like changing the background wallpaper. And you couldn't explore the system you were in anyway.
Rebirth sorts the issue that TC/AP had when building a system like Sol with multiple Accelerators which just meant you would run out of space very quickly iif say.. Argon Prime or Kingdom End got the Sol Treatment with their own accelerators to expand into their systems.

[patient zero]

I forget where I saw it, but I like HelgeK's description of the "gravity drive" used by the UFOs. Select a specific destination and activate gravity shields in every direction except the one you want to go toward. Then fall with exponential acceleration halfway in that direction, reverse shield direction and fall with exponential deceleration to the final destination. I'm certain it would require good strafing skills to avoid obstacles.