[WIP] X Rebirth: The New Frontier

The place to discuss scripting and game modifications for X Rebirth.

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Sun, 21. May 17, 23:18

doesn't seems to have any effect, added code into do_while at trade.station.tradestation

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The Cheshire Cat
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Post by The Cheshire Cat » Mon, 22. May 17, 08:22

I had a random thought regarding something someone mentioned earlier about it being weird for mercenaries to deal in illegal goods: maybe instead of mercenaries trading spacefuel/narcotics/etc., there could be a sub-type of pirate factions called "smugglers". Unlike pirates, smugglers would have a neutral reputation with other factions, and would not attack freighters hauling goods. Instead their primary business would be two things: producing/trading in illegal wares, and laundering stolen goods. By the latter, what I mean is that smugglers would buy ware from pirate factions (they would also be neutral with proper "pirates"), and then re-sell them to legitimate businesses/governments.

The main reason I think this would be a nice solution is that it would both allow mercenaries to maintain their role as guns for hire, as well as giving pirate factions some way of selling off plundered goods, since even though they will use some goods within their own factories, odds are they aren't going to be able to use everything they loot and they should be able to get rid of it somehow.

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Mon, 22. May 17, 08:48

to connect economies there is already a "symbolic" Faction that can working with everyone, pirates (and Xenon) will cover as this faction to get deals from here Enemies and process trades

it's also a way for the player to cover himself and his ship/subordinates for a short period - like to travel trough enemy space
your ship won't attack and in case you order then too, the cover will fall

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Post by Warnoise » Mon, 29. May 17, 09:40

Will the pirates also board ships?

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Mon, 29. May 17, 10:11

in theorie possible, but i assume that the ship would destroyed in any situation - if not shot down by pirates then from the old owner

maybe it could possible in pirate-home-zones in special sitations, like hull is good and engine/jumpdrive is destroyed - we will investigate

actually only surrender (by drop cargo against plunder-tasks) for tradeships is intended, before the ship breaks

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Post by Scoob » Wed, 31. May 17, 19:45

Hey all,

Sorry, quite late to this! Sounds very interesting and is certainly something I'll be keen to try once it's out in the wilds.

However, while the feature list is impressive, like CWIR before it, there's one thing that concerns me. Is the underlying game really robust enough to handle this?

Maybe I'm just unlucky, or I simply build too much / have too many ships, but every game I play - be it 100% vanilla, lightly modded or running something like CWIR with additional mods - always seems to break down eventually.

For example, I explore, trade and build up my fleet - both military and civilian - over many hours of play. I have a blast doing this, but the moment I start getting into fleet actions, it all breaks down. No matter how I set up my ships, be it in my squad, or various squads with NPC "lead" ships, they turn into a disobedient mess.

Individual ship movements seem to work fairly well for the most part, sure, sometimes ships get a bit stuck when trying to boost away from a crowded Jump Beacon or enter / exit a gate for example. Generally though, all my automated (reporting to a Station) trade ships and miners work pretty well for the most part.

So, it's certainly fleet / squad movement of Capital Ships that the game seems entirely unable to cope with consistently. Smaller, relatively nimble Cap Ships like the Sul's aren't so bad, but when you get up to Arawn or Fulmekron etc. sizes, they simply do not work. I've waited upwards of 15 minutes for my ships to actually obey a move order, only for me to be forced to leave the Zone before they actually obey.

Now, my particular preferred play-style is likely to blame in part. I want to be ON my flagship leading any fight, I want to see the fireworks and command my ships directly. When I achieve my personal objective of gaining an Arawn for my flagship, I usually ride this heavily shielded beast. However, like with the other really large "Flagship Class" capitals, they simply do not play nice with other ships nearby, effectively breaking the entire squad.

So, one thing I'd ask is that the movement code for larger ships is very robust. I know this this something Egosoft should have sorted years ago, indeed, I have grave concerns regarding the next game using this engine if the basics are still ropey.

That being said, I do worry how much 3rd party scripts can really achieve in this, sadly flawed, engine. The frustrating thing is that Egosoft seem to repeat the same mistakes and have the same weaknesses game after game. All the way back to X2 fleet movement simply didn't work. I was initially encouraged during Rebirths development, seeing vids of ships plotting courses - shown graphically in the dev mode used - but there was never anything for fleet movement.

Ok, so I've rambled. Basically my concerns are that a very ambitious project might be scuppered for my particular "ride along" play-style due to unresolvable (via scripting) issues with the core game movement mechanics.

I'd be very interested to hear others thoughts on this, have you suffered how I have when trying to command a fleet? Almost EVERY vessel death I experience is due to ships simply not being able to do what they're told. I micro-manage fleet battles a lot, but having ships totally ignore withdraw commands, decide to park right right to that Xenon I, irrespective of them only having long-range weapons, or even simply sodding off entirely mid-fight, detracted by something in another Zone (that was never in the active Zone) is crazy. I wonder go into the sometimes odd station attack behaviour, scripts have improved this, but every so often it seems to break down.

Anyway, ramble over :)

Scoob.

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Post by UniTrader » Wed, 31. May 17, 20:02

Scoob wrote:That being said, I do worry how much 3rd party scripts can really achieve in this, sadly flawed, engine. The frustrating thing is that Egosoft seem to repeat the same mistakes and have the same weaknesses game after game. All the way back to X2 fleet movement simply didn't work. I was initially encouraged during Rebirths development, seeing vids of ships plotting courses - shown graphically in the dev mode used - but there was never anything for fleet movement.

Ok, so I've rambled. Basically my concerns are that a very ambitious project might be scuppered for my particular "ride along" play-style due to unresolvable (via scripting) issues with the core game movement mechanics.
*cough*
if not stated otherwise everything i post is licensed under WTFPL

Ich mache keine S&M-Auftragsarbeiten, aber wenn es fragen gibt wie man etwas umsetzen kann helfe ich gerne weiter ;)

I wont do Script&Mod Request work, but if there are questions how to do something i will GLaDly help ;)

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Post by Scoob » Wed, 31. May 17, 20:34

UniTrader wrote:
Scoob wrote:That being said, I do worry how much 3rd party scripts can really achieve in this, sadly flawed, engine. The frustrating thing is that Egosoft seem to repeat the same mistakes and have the same weaknesses game after game. All the way back to X2 fleet movement simply didn't work. I was initially encouraged during Rebirths development, seeing vids of ships plotting courses - shown graphically in the dev mode used - but there was never anything for fleet movement.

Ok, so I've rambled. Basically my concerns are that a very ambitious project might be scuppered for my particular "ride along" play-style due to unresolvable (via scripting) issues with the core game movement mechanics.
*cough*
Hi Uni,

Sorry, I did mention your scripts, but accidentally edited it out while proof-reading lol.

While your scripts DO make a difference, in my most recent scenario - Arawn "Flagship" with three Taranis and three Balor subordinates - the ships still often got stuck trying to boost to another Zone. When using smaller Caps, such as the Suls, it is better.

Note: I had your utcac_base_navscripts and utcac_opt_global_movement_replacement, with just utcac_base_captain and utcac_opt_global_movement_replacement applied as per your instructions. These were from March this year, when I was last playing Rebirth.

I'm aware the Arawn and other large ships do appear to pose unique issues, but being able to command - from the bridge - my Flag Ship is sorta my thing.

Currently, I'm just setting up a new game - I'm going to copy my vanilla Steam install of 4.10, apply the relevant no-Steam .exe, creating a new, vanilla base instance for testing.

Btw: my point still stands, while the work Uni and others have done to improve Rebirth are quite amazing, the fact that the base engine seems near incapable of handling basic fleet movement and combat is troubling. Plus it makes a lot more work for you guys...though I know you quite like it lol. Also, I'd imagine a core, hard-coded engine solution to such things has to be better from a performance perspective than scripts that are, if I understand correctly, basically interpreted on the fly?

Scoob.

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Post by BlackRain » Thu, 1. Jun 17, 04:27

Whenever i fought in fleet battles, everything seemed to work fine for me? I never had any issues. Ships jump to attack and move together, etc just fine in my experiences

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mr.WHO
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Post by mr.WHO » Thu, 1. Jun 17, 17:09

Hey Rain, will this mod will use modified XR universe (e.g. Albion, OL, HoL etc.) or do you plan to build your systems/economy from the scrach?

Also it would be nice to include the Lost Sectors ships to have some faction more variety.

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Thu, 1. Jun 17, 22:03

there will be a compatibility part to support LS

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Post by BlackRain » Fri, 2. Jun 17, 15:06

We will be using the existing maps but all stations will be removed. I would also love to use other systems that people have created (like lost sectors) and also remove everything. Would be interesting

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Post by UniTrader » Fri, 2. Jun 17, 15:48

not sure how your Station building works, but wouldnt it make more sense to replace the Stations with (NPC) Buildspots?
if not stated otherwise everything i post is licensed under WTFPL

Ich mache keine S&M-Auftragsarbeiten, aber wenn es fragen gibt wie man etwas umsetzen kann helfe ich gerne weiter ;)

I wont do Script&Mod Request work, but if there are questions how to do something i will GLaDly help ;)

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Fri, 2. Jun 17, 17:43

all (exclude special stations and weaponplatforms) stations are removed from the map and a couple of player and NPC buildspots now in each zone

at the start the vanilla stations will generated (not at vanilla positions, but old zone) so hardly each station will have a buildpot
in theory each faction could also start in a random space, the code is not relating to hardcoded spaces

exactly replace of stations with buildspots wasn't that easy because sometimes the layout is very close with (highway)gates and not each station will fit on each position
about that i decided to use a default but wide layout for most zone, only some special zone have a unique buildspot layout

presently i got no complaints about that

Warnoise
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Post by Warnoise » Mon, 3. Jul 17, 10:47

Hey guys, any news about this mod?

I am not pressing or anything, just wanted to know if there are infos about development

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Post by BlackRain » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 17:55

Warnoise wrote:Hey guys, any news about this mod?

I am not pressing or anything, just wanted to know if there are infos about development
Working on it. We have something we are testing currently.

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The Cheshire Cat
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Post by The Cheshire Cat » Thu, 6. Jul 17, 18:57

Out of curiosity, do you have plans for this mod to be compatible with Random Universe? It seems like it should work in theory since everything gets dynamically spawned, but I'm not sure what would be required under the hood.

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Charon_A
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Post by Charon_A » Thu, 17. Aug 17, 14:58

Amazing goals! Wish you all the luck with the project guys!
Any estimates when this candy will be available for beta test? :P
Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint.
---Mark Twain---

STKEHX3
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Post by STKEHX3 » Fri, 8. Sep 17, 20:40

Very very nice idea.
I am waiting a long time for such a realistic X!
Hope you will get this working!
Thank you for your work in the X-community, cwir made the game a lot better and this project will finish X-Rebirth!!!

My opinion :wink:

SiD_azer
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Post by SiD_azer » Fri, 29. Sep 17, 10:09

or an alpha build maybe ? :-)

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