Star Trek - Discovery

[Morkonan]

I didn't like most of the TNG episodes... There were a few that stood out and some storylines that were decent.

Troi's character didn't have much substance. It didn't serve much of a purpose, really. And, when it did, it seemed to undercut other characters.

There was one thing I really didn't like about TNG - The "flying city in space" theme. They had everything. Sure, a "Ship's Counselor" uh... I guess. OK, fine, maybe some Star Trekkie "Momma Starfleet is gonna make it alright" kind of far-future cuddle club thing makes having a Ship's Counselor in on every Top Secret thread in the series is necessary. But...

"So, what do you do on this ship?"

"I'm a hydroponics specialist studying the effects of decomposing plant material on the evolution of modern transporter theory and its impact on the selection of healthy breakfast beverages." said Lt. Dan.

They had all the human resources they needed, right on the ship. Families, kids, etc... I tried to ignore it, but it sometimes just got to be too much for a ship that often went into "harm's way."

In TOS, when they had to solve a problem, they'd pull something out of their butt, tape it together, spray-paint a smiley-face on it and shove it into a torpedo tube and hope for the best.

In TNG, they'd order it from Space Amazon or, worse, they'd sit around a table and have "meetings...."

"There's a giant space monster, Captain!"

"Red Alert! All senior officers to the Briefing Room. All Department heads must submit Space Power-Point presentations in five minutes! We'll have Teambuilding breakout sessions afterwards and I want all personnel to answer their job satisfaction surveys before the end of their shifts! Family Picnic Day and Job Fair is cancelled, but we will still be holding the Singalong Concert on the observation deck this evening and Commander Riker will still be giving his presentation on the best tourist dining facilities on planet Zeta Nine, so crew who have signed up for an excursion pack, there, should attend, but those who have the Starfleet Tours "Gold" package will already have their presentation package and should assemble on the Promenade deck at zero-seven-hundred tomorrow. Pack a light snack, but lunch will provided. If, however, you are allergic to nuts or Zetan Yeast, you should bring..."

"Shields, sir?

"Hmmm. I don't think so, Ensign. It might not be hostile. We don't want to overreact, here."


Sorry... It's just that they weren't isolated enough. Space wasn't a "dangerous wasteland with mysterious mysteries and a crew with limited resources navigating dangerous waters with danger..." anymore.

And, the producers knew that fault, hence "Enterprise." That show tried, but wasn't received as well, since the Star Trek TNG theme had been pushed far past the original TOS theme and a new audience expected a bit more TNG'ish sort of stuffs. It didn't help that Enterprise had its own flaws. But, strangely enough, I liked it a bit more, most of the time, than TNG. (It did have some over-the-top junk in it, though, that was hard to get past.) Even DS9, which I loathed, had a better setting and underlying theme than TNG, IMO.

I long for a gritty space adventure show, no matter the IP. Something that doesn't have any nuanced wishy-washy garbage in it, but focuses on hard, raw, archetypical characters with a few surprises, here and there. A straightforward show with some darn basic "morality plays" that put basic human values on the line when people are confronted with the unknown and unimaginably dangerous setting of "space adventuring" is what I want.

Dunno if the latest show will deliver that or not.

I googled "Star Trek Discovery" to see what the imagery looked like. Everything is either Blue or a "sickly" Yellowish Orange.... /sigh

[pjknibbs]

Well, they weren't really *expecting* the ship to go into harm's way most of the time, and the reason it did get into harm's way so much was because it wouldn't have been much of a series otherwise? I mean, the small village of Midsomer from the UK series "Midsomer Murders" has a murder rate comparable to inner city USA, but that apparently doesn't put people off living there!

[Morkonan]

Well, they weren't really *expecting* the ship to go into harm's way most of the time...

They weren't? K, let's apply the gun-violence-statistic-model to this thing! GunVaxers, unite and do your maths wizardries!

STAR FLEET SHIP STATISTICS (Mork Mk1 version)

These statistics have been compiled from Starfleet Database reported vessel statistics discovered during transmission Omicron.


Average number of Star Fleet flagged vessels involved in all combats: 78%

Likelihood of being cited as "Missing: Whereabouts Unknown:" 8%

Likelihood of being boarded by a hostile force: 36%

Likelihood of being contaminated by a space disease: 18%

Ships with emergent rogue AI: 7%

Ships destroyed or damaged with loss-of-life from "space weather": 65%

Ships boarded and hijacked for nefarious purposes, resulting in crewmember deaths: 22%

Ships haunted by ghosts, resulting in crewmember deaths: 5%

Ships destroyed on their shakedown cruise: 5%

Likelihood of being eaten or partially consumed by giant space-monsters with crewmember deaths: 12%

Ships arriving at official destination on time, all missions: 3%

Ships experiencing an uncontrolled decaying orbit: 10%

Ships experiencing uncontrolled warp-drive shutdowns: 71%

Ships experiencing complete loss of power, all causes: 95%

Transporter malfunction incident rate: 13%

Crews encountering hostile life-forms (non-humanoid) during Away Team missions: 50%

Crewmember incident rate of sexually transmitted diseases (humanoid): 8%

Insanity rate, all crews: 3%

Murder rate, all crews, all official assignments: 15%

Incident rate of unauthorized discharge of a weapon aboard ship, all ships: 7%

Per ship, incident rate of catastrophic equipment malfunction not due to combat action during service life-time, resulting in damage, loss of life or loss of ship: 99%

...


And they have a day-care center on the Enterprise...

***********

Also, I just noticed something:

Star Trek (Original Series): TOS
Star Trek: The Next Generation: TNG
Deep Space Nine: DS9
Voyager: (No generally accepted abbreviation - Voy)
Enterprise: ENT

Star Trek Discovery: .... STD

That doesn't bode well.

[Jericho]

Troi's character didn't have much substance. It didn't serve much of a purpose, really. And, when it did, it seemed to undercut other characters.

Sirtis (who plays Troi) and Dorn (Plays Worf) became really close best friends on set... Maybe more, but they were both married, so who knows.

In retrospective interviews on DVDs and VHS releases, they were often interviewed together, and you can clearly see how well they got along.

In one of the interviews, Sirtis was half-heatedly trying to justify her character: "Star Trek has had Klingons before, but they've never had a councilor before!"

Dorn: "Pffff, Yeah, I wonder WHY?!?!"

I feel that Q was overused in TNG, but he did have a few choice things to say about their mission. He tells them that they have no idea what is out there, and throws them at the Borg to prove his point. He says something like "What is your important mission? Cataloging gaseous anomalies?" with condescension in his voice.

Picard's face in response to that is "FML. Yes I know, I know, I want to shoot Romulins."

Wil Bloody Wheaton... That's what drives me really mad. He's grown into an annoying 45 year old brat version of Wesley. Who thought it would be a good idea to put a kid on the bridge, that was universally hated, and then George Lucas seeing that does the same thing with Anakin Skywalker?

[Golden_Gonads]

I feel that Q was overused in TNG, but he did have a few choice things to say about their mission. He tells them that they have no idea what is out there, and throws them at the Borg to prove his point.

The Borg were already coming (Retconned in at least, as the Borg from... First Contact called them (as seen in Enterprise), Q just showed them early accelerating things, but giving the Federation a chance to prepare. (Though without Q, who's to say First Contact would have happened, in which case...)

[Jericho]

The Borg were already coming (Retconned in at least, as the Borg from... First Contact called them (as seen in Enterprise),

Nope, I refuse to accept the Borg in Enterprise. That was beyond a step to far. Even section 31 magically forgot about them...

I prefer the Shatner version of the Borg... VGER was from one of the branches of the Collective... Actually quite a good book, if a little simple. Also the USS Monitor sounded like a cool ship (Non-reflective black paint, no running lights, no emissions version of Defiant.)


Actually, I prefer the other origin of the borg, Enterprise's sister ship with Captain Hernandez (I think), thrown across the galaxy and become the first Borg as they merge with alien energy. Or something. It's been a while.

[Retiredman]

Discovery-- The series that threw Roddenberry's canon in the garbage.
The way it's packaged it won't last a season.

[pjknibbs]

Discovery-- The series that threw Roddenberry's canon in the garbage.

Eh? They did that years ago--probably around the time DS9 was in development, in fact, but at the latest when Enterprise started. At least Discovery has the excuse of being set in an alternate timeline for crapping all over the canon history!

[Usenko]

They've actually gone to the pile on the kerb and grabbed quite a lot of the canon they'd seemingly put out for collection with tonight's episode.

[burger1]

Star Trek Discovery renewed for season 2

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-f ... ss-1051003

I wonder how of the bill was covered by netflix since they pretty much paid for season 1.

16 episodes instead of 15 in the current season?

The SVOD service, perhaps in response to Discovery's delays, split the 16-episode season-one order in half. The first half concludes Nov. 12, with the remaining six episodes returning weekly starting in January

[mrbadger]

So Discovery is in the new Timeline established in the latest movies then?

I didn't realise that. Not that it's going to make me watch it any sooner, I'm still not convinced there's any life remaining in that particular horse shaped corpsicle.

I might get a free netflix trial and watch the first episode, but I'm in no rush.

[Morkonan]

...In one of the interviews, Sirtis was half-heatedly trying to justify her character: "Star Trek has had Klingons before, but they've never had a councilor before!"

Dorn: "Pffff, Yeah, I wonder WHY?!?!"

Ah! "Counselor Cleavage."

She was originally supposed to have... four breasts.

I feel that Q was overused in TNG, but he did have a few choice things to say about their mission. He tells them that they have no idea what is out there, and throws them at the Borg to prove his point. He says something like "What is your important mission? Cataloging gaseous anomalies?" with condescension in his voice.

Picard's face in response to that is "FML. Yes I know, I know, I want to shoot Romulins."

"Q" is an interesting problem. A practically omnipotent, omniscient, alien with dubious morals, no ethics whatsoever, that does whatever it wants must have some sort of storytelling purpose, right?

Q is Star Trek: TNG's "magic beans" as well as the foil for its humanistic philosophy.

Whenever they don't have a way to put the crew into a situation they want to explore, here comes Q to the rescue. Q is Star Trek's "god", passing judgement on man, but is a fatally flawed deity, entirely derived from a humanistic need to demonstrate that "man" is superior and the idyllic Star Trek destiny is our rightful heritage, nature, god, politics, be damned...

Wil Bloody Wheaton... That's what drives me really mad. He's grown into an annoying 45 year old brat version of Wesley. Who thought it would be a good idea to put a kid on the bridge, that was universally hated, and then George Lucas seeing that does the same thing with Anakin Skywalker?

Just like Counselor Cleavage, it's a mechanic used to try to gain viewers. Unfortunately, unlike some other shows, they couldn't write that character into something that was plausible. The show was not a family comedy or a coming-of-age show, it was a sci-fi adventure-drama series where bad things frequently happened.

Imagine your the producer for your favorite shoot-em-up drama series. Now, add a child as one of the main recurring characters, 'cause you're worried that you don't have enough of everything in the show for every possible viewer that might stumble into the television and accidentally end up watching the show... Then, you wake up and realize what you've done, but it's done now, so you're stuck with it.

On Wheaton: I hated his character. But, I have nothing against him. In fact, he does some pretty cool stuff and has managed to reach past his character on Star Trek to make something out of himself and carve a niche. That's pretty admirable, considering how reviled his appearance was on the show by Star Trek fans. I've enjoyed a bit of his stuff, here and there, on games and such, but don't make a habit out of following his activities. (Acquisitions Incorporated is pretty good and he used to play on it a bit. Anyone who plays D&D can't be all bad! )

[clakclak]

Really like it. Not mutch more to say about it.

[Usenko]

So Discovery is in the new Timeline established in the latest movies then?

I didn't realise that. Not that it's going to make me watch it any sooner, I'm still not convinced there's any life remaining in that particular horse shaped corpsicle.

I might get a free netflix trial and watch the first episode, but I'm in no rush.

It's in the Prime (original) timeline, although there are all kinds of continuity snarls anyway (because you can't do 50 years worth of Science Fiction continuity without them! ). Anyway, it's supposed to be set about 10 years before Kirk, Spock, McCoy et al started doing stuff aboard the Enterprise.

However, their solution to the age old problem of "how to make it look high tech and match the aesthetic of the 60s at the same time" has been to "Stuff it, forget the 1960s aesthetic, this is what it ALWAYS looked like but we didn't have the technology to show it to you, got it?"

And Clakclack: Totally agree. There's things I don't like, but it's very definitely growing on me.

[pjknibbs]

It's in the Prime (original) timeline
.
.
.
Anyway, it's supposed to be set about 10 years before Kirk, Spock, McCoy et al started doing stuff aboard the Enterprise.

Which means it's not in the Prime timeline, because the timeline split occurred when the Nerada came back in time and destroyed Kirk's father's ship when Kirk was either yet to be born or still a baby, I forget which--e.g. before the time in which Diiscovery is set, if it's only 10 years before Kirk arrives on the Enterprise.

In fact, Memory Alpha (the Star Trek wiki) says that the 2009 Star Trek movie starts in 2233, so that's when the timeline split occurs. The main part of that movie is in 2258, while Discovery is 2256, only two years earlier.

[Golden_Gonads]

Which means it's not in the Prime timeline, because the timeline split occurred when the Nerada came back in time and destroyed Kirk's father's ship when Kirk was either yet to be born or still a baby, I forget which--e.g. before the time in which Diiscovery is set, if it's only 10 years before Kirk arrives on the Enterprise.

The way the canon logic works, both Universes exist side by side (Along with the Mirror Universe et al), with Discovery having already happened in the Prime Universe all this time, we're just learning of events now. Thus... 'Prime'.

[Jericho]

Can't remember if I said this before here, so apologies if I did.

I would love Trek to go forward, Give them an Enterprise J or K, and 150 years. Cool uniforms, nice ship (I love the white/glass of the 2009 Trek film, but I suspect it will look very dated by 2025). DON'T reuse the old star trek corridors, I'm sick of seeing that damn shape. DON'T reuse the old star trek shuttles, I'm sick of seeing that shape with different colors for different races. Put some bloody curves in, no matter how impractical.


BUT...

The problem with going forward is that the technology gets better and solves too many problems. Too many of Voyager's problems were just solved with a line of dialogue or DNA-magic (also: crap writing is responsible). And Replicators... Yeah, have to get rid of them.

There was a (bad) episode in the final season of TNG where it was discovered that Warp Drive was destroying subspace and could in theory rip spacetime apart near planets. It was a heavy handed Global Warming metaphor that actually applauded green-terrorism.

When the explosion proved the point, the Federation decided to come up with new rules about Warp Travel...

Now, this is important... Picard and the Enterprise were pretty far out from Earth, indeed the fleet were all over the Alpha quadrant. Ending warp drive would end Starfleet. Picard reads the new rules, and is disappointment that they don't go far enough. He says "Warp speed is limited... To warp 5!" And clearly he is upset that it wasn't banned.

How the hell would he get home? How would his ship with 1100 men, women, and children get home? Traveling at impulse, they'd be dead before they got halfway to the next star, let alone back to earth.

"Ooooh," I thought, "This could be interesting for the Trek universe!"

DS9... It was never mentioned (Too busy fighting a war I guess).
Voyager... First episode "We've got a new prius warp-core that doesn't release CO2!"

Not exactly developing that universe are they?


I can't decide if I'd like to see a "new" version of TNG, with a shiny happy crew boldly going were no non-binary-gender-fluid lifeform has gone before, or would I rather see a "new" version of DS9 (at war footing), something a bit more involved (something a bit more Battlestar Galactica)




Also, I'm old enough to remember all of this anti-Discovery comments and hate being said about The Next Generation. Thank god we didn't have the internet back then, that show would have died around the time the black ooze killed Tasha. It definitely wouldn't have survived "Shades of Grey" or an ambo-jitsu fight with Riker's father.

[Usenko]

The Warp Limit was actually mentioned - the Variable-geometry nacelles of the Intrepid Class were part of making it continuum-safe!

[Bishop149]

I'm enjoying it but I think its making two critical mistakes.

1) It has a lead character, and she's the least engaging of the lot. With the arguable exception of Kirk Star Trek has never really had a "lead" before. It's had a crew with the character focus shifting from episode to episode.
Mixing up this format isn't such a dreadful idea but it does somewhat change the feel of the show and combined with the fact that I'd rather see the focus on literally ANYONE but Micheal it feels like a major misstep. I hope this is going to change as we get more familiar with the rest of the crew, we've already had one very Lorca focused episode so maybe.

2) They've chosen the Klingon War as the setting and then have proceeded to bork up everything relating to the Klingons. The Klingon focused scenes are universally terrible and stand in contrast to much of the Starfleet / Discovery stuff which isn't bad at all.

Ok to round things off I'll list a few things I like.

Almost all of the Star Fleet characters are good, it feels like there's a lot to explore with each of them already.

I love that we have a morally dubious (or just outright bad) captain in Lorca. Such things before have always been presented as "Good person struggles with doing bad thing". . . . not this time, Lorca's arc I suspect might be reverse, a tale of redemption? Or not. . . . . I kinda hope not.

I have no major issues with the central McGuffin, as long as the continuity issues its very existence suggests are resolved by the end, which I suspect they probably will be.

[Jericho]

Does anyone know if they plan to stick to their original... plan... of a rotating crew/cast each season? I thought they'd planned to make it 90-100% new crew each season?