Catalonia.

[pjknibbs]

Some from Catalonia say that independence will not throw them out of the EU, but EU reps say that it will.

That's entirely wishful thinking on behalf of those "some" in Catalonia, then. The rules of the EU are quite clear--if a part of an EU country breaks away and becomes a new country, it does not somehow "inherit" the membership of its parent country, it has to apply to join just like any other new member would.

[Mightysword]

Some from Catalonia say that independence will not throw them out of the EU, but EU reps say that it will.

That's entirely wishful thinking on behalf of those "some" in Catalonia, then. The rules of the EU are quite clear--if a part of an EU country breaks away and becomes a new country, it does not somehow "inherit" the membership of its parent country, it has to apply to join just like any other new member would.

It's amazing how misinformed people can be, or per-harp it's the case of willfully ignorant. I wonder if they forget the statement the EU made regarding Scotland.

[matthewfarmery]

Some from Catalonia say that independence will not throw them out of the EU, but EU reps say that it will.

That's entirely wishful thinking on behalf of those "some" in Catalonia, then. The rules of the EU are quite clear--if a part of an EU country breaks away and becomes a new country, it does not somehow "inherit" the membership of its parent country, it has to apply to join just like any other new member would.

It's amazing how misinformed people can be, or per-harp it's the case of willfully ignorant. I wonder if they forget the statement the EU made regarding Scotland.

Well, I think if I remember right, if there was a split, both would leave the EU, but Scotland would get fast tracked to be a member again.

But I would say that Spain wouldn't like Catalonia to be a member of the EU? But I really wonder if the government of Catalonia has really thought all about the ordeal of getting kicked of the EU really means, new laws, new currency etc? it's a lot of work.

[Santi]

Nothing firm so far but lots of talking in the different independence parties with press releases with sentences like:

"Nothing is out of the table", "Some decisions will be hard for the people to understand", "All options are being considered because our responsibility to the people", "Difficult decisions ahead" etc.

Also the independence members elected for the Spanish Senate and Parlament in Madrid not renouncing to their posts, seems to indicate that building the new Catalonian country will be parked aside for the moment, and they will join in the elections for a new local government to take place on the 21st of December.

[Golden_Gonads]

Well, I think if I remember right, if there was a split, both would leave the EU, but Scotland would get fast tracked to be a member again.

Fast tracked application as Scottish Laws are already compatible with EU ones, but Spain repeatedly said they'd veto any membership - As I'm sure they would in the case of Catalonia attempting to join.

[Antilogic]

Well, I think if I remember right, if there was a split, both would leave the EU, but Scotland would get fast tracked to be a member again.

Fast tracked application as Scottish Laws are already compatible with EU ones, but Spain repeatedly said they'd veto any membership - As I'm sure they would in the case of Catalonia attempting to join.

Spain was fine with it if they left as part of a agreed framework with rUK. So a Westminster OKed referendum along with a Westminster bill releasing Scotland from the UK would be fine with Spain.

[Chips]

Well, I think if I remember right, if there was a split, both would leave the EU, but Scotland would get fast tracked to be a member again.

Fast tracked application as Scottish Laws are already compatible with EU ones, but Spain repeatedly said they'd veto any membership - As I'm sure they would in the case of Catalonia attempting to join.

They'd do what the UK is talking about doing - pass a bill on exit which makes all EU laws enshrined as part of the UK (or Scots) law, and therefore completely in line with the EU (they are already due to adhering to EU law, this just makes their laws your own laws). They'd then have the powers to subsequently change them at will at a later date.

Second, the Bill will convert all EU law into United Kingdom law to prevent a black legal whole after Brexit. Thousands of European laws, dictats and directives will be turned into UK law before Brexit is completed in mid-2019.

And thirdly, the Bill will create the necessary powers for MPs to change these laws once Britain has left the EU.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/great ... need-read/

[Santi]

So everybody is joining in the elections organized by the central government, the CUP party has not officially declared it, but is moving in that direction. With the Constitutional Tribunal suspending the declaration of independence, we have a achieve a "reset" and back to the legality, so good news.

Now the electoral poll fever has started, the latest one gives the majority of the Catalonian Parlament to the coalition of Independentist parties. Something that is fine by the way if they keep governing within the Spanish Constitution. Otherwise more trouble will ensue that is not that fine.

I will be surprised if non independent parties manage to get enough seats in the Catalonian Parlament - they will get more votes but by the way the different provinces accrue them that not means more seats - for a majority or to work out their differences to form a coalition.

[muppetts]

I have a hard time seeing where Carles Puidgemont goes from here, he played his card (some balls, allot of bluff) and he got called. That pro Spain march in Barcelona was big, I wonder if that will translate into votes.

[Santi]

On monday Carles Puigdemont legged it to Brussels with part of the sacked government, while some of them had come back to Spain, Puigdemont has remained in Brussels and already refuse to declare before a magistrate regarding the illegal independent process. If he does not turn up on Thursday and Friday before the courts, an order of arrest will be issued as is the normal procedure.

I presume he is trying to force the issue at an European level, if he asks for asylum in Belgium and is accepted, then the whole Catalonia business will be catapulted to the European Counsel. I think there isn't much appetite for that in Europe or Belgium for that matter, but we will see.

[Chips]

On monday Carles Puigdemont legged it to Brussels with part of the sacked government, while some of them had come back to Spain, Puigdemont has remained in Brussels and already refuse to declare before a magistrate regarding the illegal independent process. If he does not turn up on Thursday and Friday before the courts, an order of arrest will be issued as is the normal procedure.

I presume he is trying to force the issue at an European level, if he asks for asylum in Belgium and is accepted, then the whole Catalonia business will be catapulted to the European Counsel. I think there isn't much appetite for that in Europe or Belgium for that matter, but we will see.

Not quite sure why he'd be granted asylum... he isn't being persecuted.

[Skism]

On monday Carles Puigdemont legged it to Brussels with part of the sacked government, while some of them had come back to Spain, Puigdemont has remained in Brussels and already refuse to declare before a magistrate regarding the illegal independent process. If he does not turn up on Thursday and Friday before the courts, an order of arrest will be issued as is the normal procedure.

I presume he is trying to force the issue at an European level, if he asks for asylum in Belgium and is accepted, then the whole Catalonia business will be catapulted to the European Counsel. I think there isn't much appetite for that in Europe or Belgium for that matter, but we will see.

Not quite sure why he'd be granted asylum... he isn't being persecuted.

Err he is being charged with sedition and treason is he not?

[Santi]

Not quite sure why he'd be granted asylum... he isn't being persecuted.

Err he is being charged with sedition and treason is he not?

He is being prosecuted, not persecuted as Chips said. He still has, like any other ex president his security detail from the Catalonian police.

So far the charges are sedition, rebellion and embezzlement of public funds. Apart from trying to make it an European issue, there are two more reasons why Puigdemont is in Belgium.

Catalonia has always had very good ties with the Flemish independence movement in Belgium, and there is an history of bad blood between Belgium and Spain regarding the extradition of members of ETA (basque terrorists).

Actually the Belgian lawyer advising Puigdemont is notorious because he represented many of those ETA members and managed to make a good case against those extraditions.

[Chips]

Err he is being charged with sedition and treason is he not?

He is indeed. Not sure why you're quoting my post though?

[kondor_be]

The Spanish government is playing this clever. They want Puidgemont on trial for embezzlement and fraud.

Yeah, Flemish nationalists are best buds with Puidgemont but that won 't save him. They support him but if the Spanish justice system issues an international arrest warrant, they will (probably) not hinder his extradition.
They support the so called right for self determination but in a legal fashion.
Not Puidgemont's version of it.

Europe wants nothing to do with him so why he is in Brussels, I don't know.
He seeks legitimacy but there is none to be had, so even the European court won 't support him and will throw his case out if he opens one.

Lots of bluster from our flemish nationalists for internal consumption. Elections next year you know.

tldr: If you want to change anything, change the system from within.