new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

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Post by Graaf » Wed, 7. Mar 18, 20:27

nithilak wrote:Millions of people play Bethesda game

But we do not play Skyrim or Fallout for the economic simulator. The same reason we do not play X3 for the FPS. And "we" do not play Rebirth, period.

nithilak wrote:what im asking is for Egosoft to essentially take "foundations" such a higher step, that is comparable to the step that Bethesda took, say between, Fallout NV and Fallout 4
Seeing all the feedback on the Fallout-fora, I believe they already took that step with X3 to Rebirth.

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Post by adeine » Thu, 8. Mar 18, 10:00

nithilak wrote: clearly,, its no argument,, MORE poeple would play the game if the single player fps/rpg element were there.

it would liitterally take,

►a few more animations for npc's,, e.g. drawing a weapon, and firing it
►an added menu for the player (egosoft devs SURELY can handle menu additions!)
►some basic fps combat a.i.
►minor changes to some missions ( now you might have to personally escort your diplomat to their meeting, and defend from an assassin on the station) if above mentioned is implemented then some scripting can make it all happen.
►added textures/art for armor and weapons.

the rest is pretty much already there, Egosoft introduced it at the bare minimum with x rebirth, HOPEFULLY they have or will implement these things,, and bring their game to a far larger audience
It very much is an argument for the reasons outlined above. You seem to vastly underestimate what makes a good FPS. A half-baked, tacked on feature that is janky at best or outright sucks will not make more people play X4. It certainly won't reach out to a broader audience because guess what, more competent FPS games are already out there for those who want them.

And the "but what if it's optional~" excuse doesn't really work either, because even if you ignore any budget or development time constraints (and that's a pretty big concession) you would have to integrate these aspects into the game meaningfully somehow. If you don't, it's just another pointless minigame that feels like it was thrown in there to tick another box. And if it's meaningfully implemented, not only does it change the type of game X4 is but you couldn't simply ignore that aspect of it if you didn't like it.

nithilak wrote: Landing on planets or moons is expected to never happen, but would still be cool if they also laid the "foundation" by makeing 1 city for each race,, on a planet and/or moon for each race,, let modders take it from there,
LUNAR STATION MODULES?!?!

how can anybody actually think it would ruin the game
Because people have been here before with X:Rebirth, perhaps.

nithilak wrote: what im asking is for Egosoft to essentially take "foundations" such a higher step, that is comparable to the step that Bethesda took, say between, Fallout NV and Fallout 4

how could that anger or dissapoint anyone?
Fallout 4 wasn't very well received by fans of the series because it gutted the RPG aspects Fallout was based around (ironically to focus more on the shooty FPS action), and you can see the effect on a wider audience as well:

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Post by CBJ » Thu, 8. Mar 18, 13:05

nithilak wrote:how could that anger or dissapoint anyone?
I will put this is simply as I can. Time and resources are limited. People want most of that time and those resources spent on gameplay that involves flying spaceships, because that's why they buy these games. They also want the company to stay in business so that more such games can be developed. What you are suggesting would put both of those at great risk.

Not to put too fine a point on it, your estimation of what would be involved in order to give the game a full FPS element (and by that I mean actually running around shooting people, over and above what we are already doing with cockpits, bridges and landing platforms) is hopelessly optimistic, as is the apparent implication that the company could just pluck money out of the air to invest in doing it.

Whether Egosoft would want to develop this kind of gameplay is an interesting question but completely secondary to the simple fact that we don't have the resources to do so.

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Post by Rei Ayanami » Sat, 10. Mar 18, 13:40

nithilak wrote: it would liitterally take,

►a few more animations for npc's,, e.g. drawing a weapon, and firing it
►an added menu for the player (egosoft devs SURELY can handle menu additions!)
►some basic fps combat a.i.
►added textures/art for armor and weapons.
You underestimate and probably have no understanding of how much effort it is to make a decent first person shooters.
It's not just "a few more animations", "some basic combat ai", etc.

First-person shooters take a lot more than just a basic ai. A basic ai would just straight up run towards the player while shooting, Serious Sam-style.

While that works in Serious Sam, because that's what the game is about : simple mindless shooting. It wouldn't work in games like X. X games, being supposed to be a game with complex mechanics, would require also complex Ai to make it believable, that means taking cover, making intelligent decisions, etc.

That'll require tons of ressources to develop. As i mentioned before : Many developers struggle to make a decent FPS alone. Egosoft would have to develop the space and economy aspect AND make it a decent FPS shooter.

On top of that, all that would need to happen while the rest of the universe still get simulated, so there is a huge CPU load for the universe-stuff while playing a FPS. You know how many normal first person shooters struggle to stay over 60 frames per second, even though they are just first person shooters? Now throw in a full simulation of a universes with thousands of Ai ships and a working economy. I bet you wouldn't be able to keep the framerate above 60.

Games like No mans sky, Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen get away with having fps-elements it by either removing the universe-simulation-aspect while you are in fps-mode (meaning that the universe-simulation and economy-aspect is not real but just a fake) or by using an always-online server simulation.

And even if Egosoft manages so implement a FPS-element into X, then the ultimate challenge would be : "Is it fun"? Even if you have a fps-engine, even if you have complex ai, even if you have a large world, all that doesn't matter if your fps-element is not fun. And making a fps-element fun takes another huge amount of effort and ressources, otherwise they'll become as dull as (sry, x-Rebirth developers) the talking-minigames of X-rebirth.

If space simulation, fps-aspects, economy-aspects, etc were really that simple to make as you seemingly think it is, then we'd already have tons of "everything"-games where everything is possible.

Heck, even super-rich developers like Rockstar Studios, with seemingly unlimited amount of budget, would stuggle to implement a GTA game where every person in the city is simulated in real time while keeping the current gameplay. Development of features is limited not only by the budget of the studio to develop like 3 different game genres into one competent game, but also what the players PC can handle in terms of computational power.

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Post by Silicchilicchi » Wed, 14. Mar 18, 06:08

Sinceramente parlando X Rebirth ha un sacco di features anche senza atterrare e girovagare per le stazioni... Le interazioni con gli npc potrebbero essere effettuate a mio parere solamente dalle consolle di bordo delle navi e stop. La boiata dei pianeti alla ED Horizon non serve a nulla... Se implementi i pianeti o li fai bene o fai a meno di farli (stessa cosa per un sistema fps umanoide). Quindi non prendere in considerazione questi elementi è la cosa più corretta. Comunque complimenti Egosoft perchè l'universo di X è il migliore e più completo.

<"Honestly speaking, X Rebirth has a lot of features even without landing and wandering around the stations ... Interactions with the npc could be made in my opinion only from the ship's on-board consoles and stops. The boiata of the planets at ED Horizon is useless ... If you implement the planets or do them well or do not do them (same thing for a humanoid fps system). So not considering these elements is the most correct thing. Anyway, congratulations Egosoft because the universe of X is the best and most complete." - Google translate can be your friend. Alan Phipps.>

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Post by Rice » Wed, 14. Mar 18, 09:35

may sounds foolish , but whats up with these portugese / spanish answers recently in the english threads ?
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Post by CBJ » Wed, 14. Mar 18, 11:24

It's Italian. And I'm guessing the forum user wants to contribute to the discussion, but isn't confident enough in their English language skills to reply in English. However, this being the English language forum, it would be preferable if they did, or at least provided a Google translation of their text so that readers (and moderators) don't have to do it themselves.

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Post by Jeraal » Wed, 14. Mar 18, 21:59

Just to throw my two cents in, I am NOT in favor of FPS things. I would prefer to have none in an X game. There are plenty of FPS games out there. I play X games for the ship flying aspect( be it sight seeing, trading or fighting). Time and resources spent on FPS takes away from the rest, in MY opinion.
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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by nithilak » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 04:38

And here it comes,,, 'drum roll',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Starfield,,, by none other than,,,, wait for it,,,, drum roll,,,,,,, Bethesda
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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by nithilak » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 04:39

Ill STILL play all the x games tho..
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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by nithilak » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 05:09

now its been a long time since i made this original post, and i dont spend alot of time in forums,, obviously,, but now that ive FINALLY gotten around to coming back and reading some responses,, its funny that there seems to be a common theme in the perception others have in just what it is i am suggesting..
IM not at all suggesting that egosoft turn x into a full blown rpg game,, the comment i made,, "like a skyrim in space" was merely an example to save myself a lot of explaining. i also believe that i pointed out what i meant,,and I merely suggested perhaps lightly building on,, what ALREADY IS IN THE GAME,, already there at such a watered down level its rather perplexing why they even added the element at all.
adding some,, some,,, rpg element to the FPS aspect of the game,, THAT ALREADY EXISTS in the game , LMAO,,, (that people keep saying they dont want to see in the game,, even tho X, wether they realize it or not,, is in fact,, an FPS game...........
wow its getting difficult to keep up with my thoughts here,,, lol
so,, i will start over
I know its not gonna happen. Not likely to anyway. BUUUUT,,, Maybe,, just maybe,, Egosft devs will turn somtihing up that is along the lines of what i and many have suggested,, if not just to stay in the game,,, not sure if a pun is intended there.... or if , they are just going to hang their hats and consider it good while it lasted....
as i seemingly prophetically predicted,,, bethesda is in fact, releasing a very similar type of game,, called starfield.. and i gotta say,, its pretty impressive.. makes one wonder,, will the devs continue to re-gurgitate the same game with slightly better graphics (and a few pointless added features that its hard to tell if anyone really wants or doesnt want? e.g. pointlessly walking around in stations) or will they abandoned making x games to play Starfield? OR, will they X-PAND on the already awesome game theyve made by adding features that DONT take away from the core element of the gameplay, but rather ADD to it. Opening more options on just how you want to play the game yourself.
One response,, from a dev i believe,, suggests that i am not experinced in such matters and not well grounded on the subject.. yet,, here we are lol,,, Bethesda is releasing Starfield soon. and the space theme is becomeing more and more popular, in fiction and in real life. and such time would allow certain industries and genres,, say for example,, space themed video games,, to really 'take off' on levels they never did before..
This same dev i believe,, also says its out of their scope to put these elements into the game,,, but that bodes the question,,, WHY did egosoft add these incredibly watered down minimal rpg'ish elemnts to the game at all if its out of thier scope to add them into the game? i must say, i am a little confused by it..
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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by nithilak » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 05:25

and to address more on the subject of posts stating that these elements will ruin the game... im curious how?,, by adding elements,, to elements within the game that are already there that you dont even really have to indulge in for the most part (unless your playing the main plot) how is that going to ruin the game?
in XR,, you only really have to get out of your ship if you want to repair the 'Skunk" (after completing the main quest that is, if your playing the main quest) There may be a few other moments here and there where its necessary,, but only if you chose to do certain missions.
there is a post stating they dont want x to be an FPS game,, NEWS FLASH,, it is an FPS GAME,,, lmao,, but whatever lol... I think i know what you mean.. you want to play Starcraft in first person,, and thats great,, you can,, and all the other stuff, you can igonore, and someone else, that wants to run around the boreing stations and have stagnant repetitive converstations with static npcs can,,, That effects you,, how exactly? it doesnt force you to do it. so i dont understand your point,, or if you even actually have one,, and i say that because
ALLL the X games, are FPS space shooters/ simulation/ empire building/ strategy... the one element of the game that is for sure there, no matter how you play it, is the FPS element. the game is first person perspective no matter what.. well,, i suppose,, you could play the game entirely from menus and keep your camera view staring at the outside of a cap ship your docked on. and more power to you if thats how you like to play it.. but then,, x only isnt an fps game,, for those who are playing it like that. and even then,, your gonna find yourself in the "game ruining scenario" of being in first person perspective once in a whle i guess lol.
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Re:

Post by Socratatus » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 18:04

linolafett wrote:
Tue, 20. Feb 18, 09:17
Its rather easy to explain why we can not implement the named features above.
We are just a team of 20 people, only 4-5 artists.
This would be absolutely out of scope for us to try to make a fps/rpg/action multiplayer shooter.
TWENTY people???

Wow, I had no idea it was that small.
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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by Rei Ayanami » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 20:15

nithilak wrote:
Fri, 19. Aug 22, 05:25
there is a post stating they dont want x to be an FPS game,, NEWS FLASH,, it is an FPS GAME,,,
When saying they don't want X to be a FPS game, they most likely are talking about military call-of-duty-style having a gun/rifle in the hand, shooting at enemies with iron sights and such.

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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by CBJ » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 23:32

nithilak wrote:
Fri, 19. Aug 22, 05:25
and to address more on the subject of posts stating that these elements will ruin the game... im curious how?,, by adding elements,, to elements within the game that are already there that you dont even really have to indulge in for the most part (unless your playing the main plot) how is that going to ruin the game?
I will answer this for you on behalf of those other people. They are not saying that it will spoil the game; they are saying that they want the finite development resources that are available to be spent on improving and expanding on existing features they enjoy, rather than being diverted into a completely different type of gameplay that they may not be interested in. You saying that they don't have to play that element of the game just emphasises their point.

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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 20. Aug 22, 01:05

Rei Ayanami wrote:
Fri, 19. Aug 22, 20:15
nithilak wrote:
Fri, 19. Aug 22, 05:25
there is a post stating they dont want x to be an FPS game,, NEWS FLASH,, it is an FPS GAME,,,
When saying they don't want X to be a FPS game, they most likely are talking about military call-of-duty-style having a gun/rifle in the hand, shooting at enemies with iron sights and such.
Indeed. Of course it is "FPS" ... as long as you fly a ship. It is "full blown RPG" too (unless you mean RPG-7), because you are free to do what you please: kill Terrans, slaughter Terrans, massacre Terrans, or let them die. (There might have been other options, but nothing comes to mind. :gruebel: ) I don't care what the ships look like as long as I hit what I aim for.
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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by nithilak » Mon, 22. Jan 24, 09:26

CBJ wrote:
Fri, 19. Aug 22, 23:32
nithilak wrote:
Fri, 19. Aug 22, 05:25
and to address more on the subject of posts stating that these elements will ruin the game... im curious how?,, by adding elements,, to elements within the game that are already there that you dont even really have to indulge in for the most part (unless your playing the main plot) how is that going to ruin the game?
I will answer this for you on behalf of those other people. They are not saying that it will spoil the game; they are saying that they want the finite development resources that are available to be spent on improving and expanding on existing features they enjoy, rather than being diverted into a completely different type of gameplay that they may not be interested in. You saying that they don't have to play that element of the game just emphasises their point.
LMFAO,,, you must not of read ALL that i wrote....... IM not suggesting ANYTHING beyond doing exactly what you just said,, "improving and expanding on exsisting features they enjoy".... you already have physical character, that even already has a personal inventory, that already has weapons, that can already walk and run around stations. that being said, where they left it with that,, its silly that any of it even exists in the game at all.

you HAVE to go walk into a station, walk to the appropriate room to HACK a station terminal, and there is absolutely no resistance from any station security,, an npc can be watching you do it and it doesnt matter. but the npc's have lives so to speak, they travel and trade and look for the best deals.. its interesting that added a character that can do all that, and cut it off there,, not give stations a shop, be able to change your charcters outfits, be able to engage in combat with npc's on the stations, especially in the event you get busted trying to hack a terminal, perhaps enemy npc's may attack you on certain friendly stations. anyway. ive been playing the x games since they started putting them out.

I just am not going to explain it again lol
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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by CBJ » Mon, 22. Jan 24, 09:41

Six years on and you're dredging up this thread again to insist that everyone's explanations of why this neither feasible for a small studio, nor a particularly good idea anyway, are wrong. This time, however, it's particularly ironic given that last time you revived it, it was because of Starfield - a game which, according to many, fell into the trap of adding too much first person gameplay to what was ostensibly a space game. ;)

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Re: new cockpit ineriors :/ build on the fp player aspect PLEAAASE

Post by Nanook » Mon, 22. Jan 24, 09:44

Let me help. 'CLICK". There, ancient thread headed into the abyss. :P
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