Chris Roberts new project... Star Citizen

[Tycow]

Watching these is going to be a struggle... The guy's cadence is all over the place and he sounds like a smug Kermit the Frog.

I'm going in!

[Morkonan]

I watched the first, will watch the rest later. I like the commentary, probably because I don't know much about SC development and have no actual stake in the game other than desiring to see it actually made.

[Tycow]

Videos were good, informative and well made. I'm glad people are holding CIG to task over progress so far.

[felter]

For me I was surprised by the amount of cash some people have spent on the game and that RSI/CIG are very happy to let them do it. Especially as I have just watched another video the other day there, where the guys behind Warframe removed a microtransaction feature because one guy was spending far too much cash on it. They thought they had created a slot machine and it was unethical to let their customers use it as such. And here we have RSI/CIG screwing people for as much cash as they can scam out of them, for a game that should have been released years ago.

[Chips]

SC hasn't created a slot machine though... the people who are paying for something know what they're paying for. The fact it isn't there in a playable game is all you can argue about.

You don't like the fact people are buying something that doesn't exist yet - however we have people who spend millions reserving the latest, greatest, not-actually-made-yet supercar, and paying for the extras/addons/paint colour.

[felter]

It's just the pure ethics of it. While there may not be a slot machine they are just asking for massive amounts of money right from the start and playing on the weakness and vulnerabilities of some people in society, and doing it without a care if it harms them or not. That is the issue, Digital extremes noticed that a single person was paying hundreds of dollars and realised that letting someone do such a thing was wrong, where as Chris Roberts openly grabs and abuses the trust in him that he wont do such a thing to stop on the contrary he will go to court to defend his right to screw them over. Where do you draw the line, when does it become an issue and when is it wrong.

If the game had came out when it had, how many of these people would have spent this sort of money on his game and the longer he goes without releasing the final game, the more he can wrangle out of the hands of compulsive buyers. Has he deliberately delayed the game so he can make more cash. Maybe he is not doing it intentionally but he is doing it all the same, especially as he keeps coming out with new ways to get his investors to come up with more cash, while not actually giving them anything. It's easy create a new ship and sell it for $400 dollars or create a new planet and sell the land plots for $100 - $400.

Some will say, but they know what they are doing and can afford it or they wouldn't do it. I watched a video a few months back, where a guy spent $5000 on Guild Wars 2 in a weekend, now while he could afford it or so he said, he was also having to receive psychological counselling because he can't help himself from spending his money on such things. To him it was just like a gambling addiction, he got a buzz from it, he knew it was stupid and wrong but he cannot help himself. This is the type of person Roberts is praying on and it is just wrong, the man is a dried up ethical well.

[Chips]

Do supermarkets check your bank balance before accepting a payment? Does a restaurant check you're living within your means before it accepts your booking? Does the travel company check you can afford without saddling yourself with debt? Does "clothes shop" ask for financial statements before you're able to buy new clothing?

We live in a very consumerist society. Do people *need* to spend $1200 on the new iPhone or will the old model see them through? Should Apple therefore do financial checks on the individuals before allowing them to buy?

Yes, SC could be said to be supplying rope with which fiscally incompetent individuals hang themselves, but all the purchases you can make are not a necessity to play the game; they're voluntary. Just like most voluntary payments you make, no-one is actually checking you can continue to spend that money.

I do agree that there's the possibility that they're reliant entirely upon the continued purchase of items by individuals to support the development, and do agree that it's in their best interest to therefore produce more in the hopes that people buy it. I.e their development is predicated around continued supplying of things people purchase.

But I don't think it equates to gambling and taking advantage of someone suffering an addiction to the risk/reward cycle gambling relies upon. I'm sure if someone sought medical help (or was given it) they'd be able too get refunds on the items... and you could always do a charge back.

I can kinda see where you're coming from, but unless it's an illness someone is suffering from, don't see why the company should stop making and selling things if the demand is there.

[Morkonan]

...I can kinda see where you're coming from, but unless it's an illness someone is suffering from, don't see why the company should stop making and selling things if the demand is there.

You can create demand.

In an environment that you completely control, you can place so many inducements for purchase that a player who enjoys that environment is practically guaranteed to develop a "want" for an item.

If you control the environment, control the rewards, control the activities, control how that environment works, how it's built, how it's presented to those within it, there is very little to keep you from actually controlling the people in that environment.

This is the premise behind the most profitable, and most disgusting, "freemium" games out there. Developers actually hire psychologists to help them make their products more desirable, more necessary, for fans who play these sorts of games.

You can control a devoted fan's desires to the point where the "choice" that we assume must always exist is truly, practically, nonexistent. For those who successfully resist that compunction to purchase what you've tailored for them, they'll likely quit the game anyway, since they don't wish to continue experiencing the game if it costs them a certain amount of money. But, for others, those who are deeply involved with the game, they'll make what others would consider to be irreconcilable sacrifices to continue their experiences, all due to your carefully constructed Skinner box that is designed to capture such players.

Sometimes, people need to be protected from themselves, especially when it is legal for developers to construct games that are specifically designed to control a player's real-world desires in favor of giving the developers more money.

[Chips]

So what part of an unreleased, unplayable game fits with that description? How is applicable to SC whatsoever? Furthermore, it'd need some evidence to back it up.

The original comparison was between a game that had been released where they'd inadvertently created a gambling scenario involving real money, and SC producing content you know what you're getting when you buy (absolutely zero gambling involved - other than promise the game is released I guess - but that hardly fits the typical gambling definition).

Other than a possibility of failure, SC isn't a gamble when buying something they offer. No more so than any other transaction you partake in during normal life. If they created a $20 pot luck crate, whereby you've got perhaps a 1% chance of winning exclusive ship, 10% chance of winning the free insurance, 50% chance of winning ingame credits, and 19% chance of laughing emoji...

Yes, if someone needs help - seek help from the medical company. It isn't for SC to diagnose every individual purchasing anything whether they've somehow (unproven to this point) become "addicted" to buying "things" for the game to the point its damaging their living. By all means dislike how they raise funds, I do as well because there's no game at present. But lets not paint it into a picture that it really isn't...

[segmentationfault]

Anyone here going to CitizenCon next week?

I'm pretty exciting about the presentations they have in CitCon this year. All the presentations will be published in YouTube and as far as I know there should be about 10 hours worth of presentations to listen/watch.

Evocati testers has been testing a3.3 and a3.3+OCS versions about a week now but hopefully wave 1 PTU is not too far away.

[felter]

Evocati testers has been testing a3.3 and a3.3+OCS versions about a week now but hopefully wave 1 PTU is not too far away.

That was another scam by Roberts, I was supposed to get both Alpha and Beta access to the game as part of my crowdfunding pledge I made but they took that away from me. along with everyone else who made that pledge for that access and gave it to everyone in a PTU, and a few with the title of Evocati. I'm actually surprised the game is still going, it is taking far to long to develop. X4 was started after it and is going to be released long before Star (scam) Citizen is going to be released. Hell, ED was started after it, been released for years and is about to have a major update, but still no sign for Star (scam) Citizen.

[segmentationfault]

That was another scam by Roberts, I was supposed to get both Alpha and Beta access to the game as part of my crowdfunding pledge I made but they took that away from me. along with everyone else who made that pledge for that access and gave it to everyone in a PTU, and a few with the title of Evocati. I'm actually surprised the game is still going, it is taking far to long to develop. X4 was started after it and is going to be released long before Star (scam) Citizen is going to be released. Hell, ED was started after it, been released for years and is about to have a major update, but still no sign for Star (scam) Citizen.

I'm not sure if I understood right but eveyone who are able to fly a ship in a game has Alpha and Beta access. You are not able to test Alpha 3.2 either? Anyone can also become a member of Evocati testers just by testing the game.

[Chips]

A good reminder that it's > 6 years since I made this thread, and he claimed a year development prior to that - 7 years, not bad!

[segmentationfault]

I don't personally care how long time it will take to develop Star Citizen PU or Squadron 42 as long we are going to get a amazing game as it looks like it is going to be. I'm than happy to play E:D, X4 (and older ones), Helium Rain and many other space games along side of Star Citizen Alpha versions :). None of them is a replacement for Star Citizen and doesn't have to be. Space game fans have great times.

[Chips]

You may not care about when it gets released, and in truth I could argue I do not - but that's simply because I've near lost interest. It's morphed from what was claimed it'd be into something else.

What I have increasingly found irritating over the years is the lack of adhering to promises from which people funded with money and, no other word for it, diabolical incompetent management.
Not. Even. An. Apology.

I'm sure it'll be amazing when (if) it gets released. It just may not be the amazing game I chucked my money towards, but some hybrid garbage that's jack of all master of none

[segmentationfault]

You may not care about when it gets released, and in truth I could argue I do not - but that's simply because I've near lost interest. It's morphed from what was claimed it'd be into something else.

That's true, the game has grown a lot since Kickstarter times. Still, I'm pretty sure it has gained more new gamers than it has lost because of the scope change. The game which was originally planned (Squadron 42) is still there but it includes lots of other stuff as well. I also assume all disappointed people has refunded long time ago already.

What I have increasingly found irritating over the years is the lack of adhering to promises from which people funded with money and, no other word for it, diabolical incompetent management.
Not. Even. An. Apology.

They are adding new features in all releases. OCS is insanely important feature and without it the project is not be possible. They are not able to add new stuff without it anymore, so in that sense the current a3.3+OCS patch is the most important patch so far. OCS should one of last huge features (if not last) which are absolutely required.

Which features and promises to get fulfilled are you waiting most?

[Santi]

They are adding new features in all releases. OCS is insanely important feature and without it the project is not be possible. They are not able to add new stuff without it anymore, so in that sense the current a3.3+OCS patch is the most important patch so far. OCS should one of last huge features (if not last) which are absolutely required

What is OCS?

[segmentationfault]

What is OCS?

Object Container Streaming. It is a key technology so CIG can start to add stuff like planets or pretty much any kind of objects. OCS patch includes Hurston and some new moons. Hopefully in CitizenCon they will show some more planets, progress of ArcCorp, etc.

[Observe]

I couldn't care any less about all that. Give me single-player Squadron 42 for 50 dollars or so and I'll see what I think. I'm not interested in endlessly opening my wallet for any game - real or not. In the meantime, all things Star Citizen are pure hyperbole scam in my world.

[The Q]

Anyone here going to CitizenCon next week?

Unfortunately, I cannot join this year. But I bought the official streaming pass (for only $20), the high quality upgrade (for $10) and the stream early pass (for $5; lets you check-in a little earlier than the rest). I also bought 5 of the exclusive CitizenCon sticker packs. (These are limited to only a 5,000 pieces; cost about $1.99 each. I think this is a fair price.) I also heard about a summary video deal, where you get a summary of the most important points of the presentations, i.e. you do not have to watch the whole 10 or what hours it usually takes to learn about the really interesting stuff. Unfortunately, the support hasn't answered my requests yet.
@segmentationfault, would you please ask your guys at the office, whether they received my messages? What's the request quota for backers again? Maybe I sent too many messages this month? I haven’t found an option to increase this, though.