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Hank001
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Post by Hank001 » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 15:29

Morkonan noted:
AFAIK, it's optional. There is no regulation that prevents the President from returning a salute while in civilian clothing
For military yes. No salutes without "cover" except when reporting to a superior...etc.

For the President, it appears to be opitional, but protocol says no, but some presidents did anyway.

Obama took some serious @$!# over it, but Trump doesn't have much comment about his lackadaisical tap of eyebrow that looks more like he's flapping at a fly buzzing his head.

I'm in the same state now that I was once in the service where I didn't have to salute in uniform. My right arm's in a cast. :roll:
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Post by felter » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 17:35

Morkonan wrote:
Hank001 wrote:felter said about Trump saluting:
Yeah he does it all the time...
Well here's what SHOULD happen:...
AFAIK, it's optional. There is no regulation that prevents the President from returning a salute while in civilian clothing. He is, after all, at the top of the Chain of Command and must be saluted. It is not required that he return the salute, but he can if he wants to.

As far as I know, that is.
The thing is the protocol says you do not salute while out of uniform, it even says that when out of uniform you do not salute the raising or lowering of the flag, even for that you place you hand over your heart, if you are out of uniform. So it doesn't matter even if Trump was a five star general, he should not be saluting, it's written so in the book of protocols, but then saying that, Trump does have difficulty reading.
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Post by Ketraar » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 17:46

This long debate about him saluting is exactly the type of distracting thing people get worked up instead of focussing on discussing policies and/or solutions. It worked great last time. :roll:

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Post by felter » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 18:13

It is on topic, as the thread is about Trump after all and not Trumps policies. It's also a subject that we shouldn't start calling each other names over. :)

A thing about the royals saluting is that they are military men and women, they all served sometime in the military. Even the Queen herself served with the ATS during WW2.

Image

That is the queen in Uniform during her military service. I imagine even she had to salute back then.
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Post by Observe » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 18:17

Ketraar wrote:This long debate about him saluting is exactly the type of distracting thing people get worked up instead of focussing on discussing policies and/or solutions. It worked great last time. :roll:
I'm not sure what to do in this thread anymore. When we get to discussing important subjects such as economics and trade, there are those who bitch about it and would rather steer the discussion toward silliness. I think I'll step aside for a time and work on my farm. :)

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Post by Hank001 » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 18:41

Observe says:
I'm not sure what to do in this thread anymore. When we get to discussing important subjects such as economics and trade, there are those who bitch about it and would rather steer the discussion toward silliness. I think I'll step aside for a time and work on my farm. Smile
The more I look at that question the more I think the EU people here SHOULD use this forum to swap ideas on how Trump's "edicts" effect their countries and their lives. Perhaps I'm too focused on democracy dying around me and that the party I once respected has devolved into an ogliarchy of a rich few or obliged to a rich few for their positions. There's really nothing the those outside of the US CAN do but bemoan how Trump is ruining THEIR countries. Which were I in their postion I would be doing and loudly at that.

So I suppose I should tone down MY outrage and let them vent theirs.

:lol:
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Post by Ketraar » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 18:57

I dont think you need to contain yourself, but I do question this new notion of social media type outrage over trivial stuff that just clutters the bandwidth without any attempt at (going to blow your mind here) reflection. I get that at times having a McRanty rant is required, but wasting 2 pages worth discussing if a President that makes a daily use of vitriol, should salute troops or not, kinda bothers me.

I'm not saying people cant go in-depth on irrelevant things, but given the severity of the actions across the globe, directly or indirectly related to Trump and the rise of stupidity in general, I find history is repeating itself and I'm experiencing a sort of déjà-vu where everyone is busy with outrage and not paying attention to the real issues.

I guess this qualifies as a McRant, oh well...

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Post by BugMeister » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 20:01

stupidity is not on the rise - it's being carefully maintained so that the majority are kept in the dark..
even stupidity itself is being controlled by the power of wealth.. why do you think there are public schools..??
why else would education be under the control of people like Betsy Vos..??
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by Hank001 » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 20:12

BugMeister asks:
why else would education be under the control of people like Betsy Vos..??
Obviously. Need I remind you that Trump is merging the Department of Education with the Department of LABOR?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/21/white-h ... labor.html

And fully aware I'm going over the top here...

All the children sing:

We don't need no education...
We don't need no thought control...
No dark sarcasm in the classroom...
HEY TEACHER leave those kids alone!...
...All in all we're just another brick in the wall...

(Sometimes the ironies just astound me)
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Post by Mightysword » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 20:52

Ketraar wrote:I dont think you need to contain yourself, but I do question this new notion of social media type outrage over trivial stuff that just clutters the bandwidth without any attempt at (going to blow your mind here) reflection.
First guess would be because outrage feels good. :D
I think outrage is like a psychologycal drug, and it seems pretty damn potent.

Second guess would probably don't even have to be a guess, but that's just social media. Those youtube video needs to be relinked. Those tweets needs to be followed. Those reddit post needs to be upvoted. Those facebook walls needs to be liked. And most importantly, those outrage engine needs to be fueled. And these things need to happen "daily", hell, hourly I would say, that's just the way of life now I think. You know, when TV only have a few broadcasting channel and every programmer have to share the wave, there was a need to put things that actually matter and substantial on the limited slot you are given, now instead people have to scrap every bit and piece to fill the constant 24/7 uptime.

I wonder if people see the irony in this. I always see in this thread people love accusing Trump for playing the media, for making noise distracting from "real, important issue". And yet, more often than not it seems people indulge themselves in playing that game for him. :rofl:

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Post by Hank001 » Wed, 8. Aug 18, 21:23

For fear of raising tensions some hard news:

US mid-term elections: Women break records for nominations -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45109836

US mid-term elections: What the results mean for Trump -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45119533

Iran sanctions: US can't stop our oil exports, says minister -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45115743

China to hit US with tariffs on US imports worth $16bn -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45113866

Just can in:

Russia faces US action over Skripal attack -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45122723

All from the BBC so I can't be accused of fostering American "fake news" hyperbole.


Think I'll go on hiatus from the thread and watch what it drifts off into.

While "cooler heads" delve into eclectic debate of some interesting symptom of the greater disease the thread is named after.

In the mean time while socioeconomics become the topic of the day and any real hard topics that can raise more than a mild yawn are stepped on for perpetuating controversial issues or if ones opinions become more forid than escoteric muelings told to calm down and look at things rationally.

And huge blocks of text appear that only the writer can understand appear and really summerize into two or three sentences.

Then suddenly one day one day the more controvercisl pages of the thread are deleated to comply with new laws on the books and you don't really care to notice.

Hank001 says:
See Ya!
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Post by Ketraar » Thu, 9. Aug 18, 00:14

Mightysword wrote:I wonder if people see the irony in this. I always see in this thread people love accusing Trump for playing the media, for making noise distracting from "real, important issue". And yet, more often than not it seems people indulge themselves in playing that game for him. :rofl:
I dont think there is any irony tbh, its sad and frustrating, yes, hardly ironic. Also I doubt Trump "plays the media", that would require cunning and planing, neither of which are within Trumps wheelhouse. He is a troll, a fat old rich troll.

I couldnt care less about Trump if I tried. I care about what he represents, what he enables, and the people that made "him" possible. Hence I much rather discuss the policies, effects, possible solutions, context, philosophy, pretty much anything other than Trump and his short penis complex, we have done that, it wont get any bigger, the complex that is.

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Post by Mightysword » Thu, 9. Aug 18, 00:39

Ketraar wrote: I dont think there is any irony tbh, its sad and frustrating, yes, hardly ironic. Also I doubt Trump "plays the media", that would require cunning and planing, neither of which are within Trumps wheelhouse.
The thing is ... it's not Trump claiming he's playing the media, it's other "people" who accused him of that, often the very same people who distracted themselves on trivial issues surrounding him on the daily basic, hence the irony. If Trump is a troll, than what of the people who feed the troll? :wink:
I couldnt care less about Trump if I tried. I care about what he represents, what he enables, and the people that made "him" possible. Hence I much rather discuss the policies, effects, possible solutions, context, philosophy, pretty much anything other than Trump and his short penis complex, we have done that, it wont get any bigger, the complex that is.


Hey, in that regard we are in absolute agreement. I had said many times in this thread (to the point I think I had annoyed those who are more enthusiastic) that Trump is just one man, I don't put as much interest or emphasis on him or what he does. I care more about how did we get here, and how we can move forward. In extra long words: I don't care as much to the fact Trump is our president, I care more about HOW did he manage to become one in the first place, and if he's presidency is a mistake, than how can that mistake won't be repeated. I also much prefer to talk about policies, effects, possible solutions, context, philosophy, in which I often do. I think I have never joint or participate in the bashing wagon that talk about his short penis complex. It had made me a Trump's supporter and enablers to some. To others, as you may have recently noticed, talking about "policies, effects, possible solutions, context, philosophy" seem to be taken as off topic. :p

We had talked many things before regarding policy and context among other things, and I think our difference is so big I doubt we will ever reconcile, but I do take comfort that we had never wasted our time debating about a penis complex or something similar. :D

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Post by BugMeister » Thu, 9. Aug 18, 01:46

a Replicant congressman faces charges of insider trading..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTO3eg0eBQ8

- and now Trump should be very worried about his personal finances..
- his dodgy dealings will eventually catch up with him, and he knows it..
- he has abused the office of President since he was installed, and he knows it..

- if he had an ounce of decency in him he would resign the office, and face charges as a "civilian"..
- those around him should inform him that his tenure at the White House will soon be placed under intense scrutiny,
- particularly given the Manafort/Gates trial and the upcoming Cohen investigation..
- the Mueller Special Inquiry will NOT go away, simply because he dislikes it..

- he knows this, and yet he appears to be intent on brazening it out - right up to the Supreme Court, if necessary..
- this will only drag the office of the Presidency through the mud,
- and further erode US citizenry's faith in jurisprudence and probity in high office..

- evidence of the madness of Donald Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmLxwMD3Q30

- his immediate family ought to be quite concerned for their own stability,
- they should rein him in and give him the advice and moral support that he obviously lacks..
- they must know that, through his actions, he has purposefully brought the Office into disrepute..

- has he no shame..?? :o :o
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by felter » Thu, 9. Aug 18, 03:30

BugMeister wrote: - has he no shame..?? :o :o
No, I thought everyone knew that already. :P
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Post by Antilogic » Thu, 9. Aug 18, 16:50

felter wrote:
BugMeister wrote: - has he no shame..?? :o :o
No, I thought everyone knew that already. :P
Also not he wouldn't feel anything he does is worthy of shame. Because he's right all the time. 100%. Never wrong so no shame needed.

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Post by Morkonan » Thu, 9. Aug 18, 22:39

Mightysword wrote:
Ketraar wrote:I dont think you need to contain yourself, but I do question this new notion of social media type outrage over trivial stuff that just clutters the bandwidth without any attempt at (going to blow your mind here) reflection.
First guess would be because outrage feels good. :D
I think outrage is like a psychologycal drug, and it seems pretty damn potent....
Obviously, it's very potent - Trump is now President of the United States.

I exercise my own outrage. Sometimes, right here on the forums. I indulge it, milk it, take it wherever it wants to go.

But, then I examine it.

I try to find out what the true nature of that feeling of outrage is. Is it justified? Am I actually outraged by something specific or is my outrage at something an emergent thing, derived due to something else?

Look at all of Trump's biggest "hits" and what is he normally addressing with anything he does? It seems to me to simply being someone touching on the "outrage" of others, even to the extent of creating focii for that outrage and then pointing his finger at them, usually at rallies, and telling people "This is why you're mad and I'm going to fix it."

Heck, people don't know what they're really pissed off about, most of the time... Go find an argument between two people and it's usually going to be really about something neither one of them is actually arguing about. If, at the right moment, you walk up to them and "identify" something else as really being what they're arguing about you might even convince them that's true. If you're vague enough, it's a pretty good guess that you'll be able to completely change their argument to something else. They might even team up and start agreeing with each other and then... arguing in tandem with you. :)

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Post by Santi » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 00:14

Bloody hell! Yoda was right all along.

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

But on topic now, the level of scrutiny and overanalyzing of Trump as a person is plain silly, I have to agree with that. It is some kind of Love Island/Big Brother circus but with a even major creepy/stalking attitude, seriously, reminds me of those that watch 24 hour Big Brother and get a hit out of looking at them while they sleep.

Outrage do not think so, but anger is one of the reasons Trump got elected, anger because people concerns were not addressed by governments. Think the hash of Brexit negotiations, that is angering those against Brexit and those in favour of Brexit, truly ridiculous. EU immigration policy, were every month they reach an agreement and progress is being made, very successful meetings but really nothing happens.
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Post by BugMeister » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 00:17

- are you sure you've never been R D Laing..??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86t5GWB5qRY

:lol:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by Mightysword » Fri, 10. Aug 18, 01:06

Santi wrote:
But on topic now, the level of scrutiny and overanalyzing of Trump as a person is plain silly, I have to agree with that...

Outrage do not think so, but anger is one of the reasons Trump got elected, anger because people concerns were not addressed by governments ...
There is a wisdom here in America that has proven true time after time after time, yet for some reason many time people pretend it's not as important: it's the economy, stupid!

Thinking back about it, Trump's campaign message was simple and raw. It was noticeably absent of the more glamorous elements that tend to be put front and center by other candidates. His message was exclusively focus on one thing: the economy. It was simple, but also effective. Not only he energized the Republican base, but also turned some section of the Democrat, section that I felt abandoned.

I'm used to be indifferent toward Obama, but I still remember the one turning point that make me into someone you can call anti-Obama. It's actually not because his weak foreign policy, but because I still remember clearly this one instance during a debate Romney during the re-election, Obama emphatically stated this: those jobs are gone governor, and they will not come back! Something inside of me died when I heard that, and I'm from a traditionally white collar family, with myself being a white collar. Can't imagine how would blue collar families feel when they hear their president just came out and said their prospect is death and buried, that he wouldn't even try to fight for it. The Democrat maybe surprised that their blue firewall was blow to pieces, but not me, not after what their previous candidate said. You know, people focus a lot on how close the result was, that he doesn't win the majority popular vote ...etc... I don't care about it, because I think when people try to find excuse in those things, they missed the important message. For me, this is why Trump won:

The last time Republicans won in Wisconsin? 1984.
The last time they won Michigan? 1988.
The last time in Pennsylvania? Also 1988.
And the last time Minnesota went red? 1972.

If you like Trump, you should give him credits for turning these states Red after decades of staying Blue. If you hate Trump, than you should at least admit the Democrat threw away these states by themselves. These are the places that suffered from the De-industrialized afford, afford that was born not by just necessity and practicality but also by political agenda and narrative. This is why I told Mork earlier there is a difference between a narrative and reality, no matter how strong or common the narrative seems to be. Believe it or not, but when people vote on election days, most would vote base on what they experience, not what other telling them. ;)

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