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[WIP] X Rebirth: The New Frontier
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Marvin Martian





Joined: 08 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Mon, 23. Jul 18, 12:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Timianer wrote:
*Evry faction can overtake your zones and sektors, because they can build at evry buildspot, the player only can build at player buildspots

changed since some builds ago, in lack of visible buildsports you need to connect by call Architect for work in Zone ... (maybe require to have ship in squad)
Anyway, you can drop navbeacon and place a outpost wherever you want

Timianer wrote:
*you can sell an zone + an station in this zone to an faction (double money making for the same objekts--> bug using ?!

if you notice that could be a "exploit" - don't do it, i can't and won't do everything foolproof - this is a singleplayer, play after our own rules, free world

Timianer wrote:
*An xenon shippart/part circle with shipyard costs round 80 mio
Any other faction, also the player must build round 10 stations and pay round 800mio for the same circle , if he donnt want use the xenon stations.--> other factions run out of money

Xenon should more effective, from this point of view it is intendet
if someone will make a couple of stations and calculate a better economy that can be used in alternitive i may add it, actually we will use what we have, if you find this unfair, you can copy Xenon stations by blueprints - reason other factions run out of money is different, they simply earn to less money for her costs

Timianer wrote:
*NPC zone or sector patrols can not "de-Cloak" cloaked ships

in most cases this should necessary, in case of attacks the ship should attacked anyway - intendet is 1 or max a hand full of scouts that use this feature (and miners) - but all of them should not attack anyone (in theory), so useless to talk over cold coffee again and again .....

Timianer wrote:
*in some cases Stations dosnt recreat destroyed trading ships -> this stations run out..even if the Faction has enough money -> econemy breaks

the process is running each ~12h to restock smallships
actually i working on new AI that allow each (free capital) faction trader to get temporary connected to faction station pool and act as station trader for a while, then switch commander-stations after a period, or stock is full
hopefully that make trading more effective then all the free traders used up yet

Timianer wrote:
*Most factions bild there ships everythere.. Sure.. its funny to see RYK in Albion PMC home zone build ships there that destroys all ships that the Albion pirates build at the PMC shipyard after boarding this shipyard and selling it to Albion Energy Corp.. because AEC and the pirates are friends (spoiler?^^)
and so long ......

not best situation for sure, but you are welcome to present a solution for situation "ships need to build, but not each faction should have his own SY?!"
in theory build ships will leave before next (potential hostile) is ready, i assume the problem is that also trading ships of hostile factions will met at this SY and that may part of your problematic situation too

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BlackRain
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Joined: 15 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed, 25. Jul 18, 23:01    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Many of the weird and wonky things present are actually patch jobs in place to make things work the way the engine never really intended. I wonder if some people realize how much work and effort went into this mod. This mod is a continuation of the work done in CWIR. If you didn't know, Rubino and I spent many years working on that and coming up with so many new and interesting features that weren't really intended to be in the game. Marvin has been a huge support to me over the years and this mod was a brainchild of mine which Marvin has been essential in helping become a reality. The amount of work put into the mod by all of us is an insane amount haha. We have considered so many angles and ideas but things aren't so simple. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, not everything can be fixed or implemented in the way we want. Of course, it is excellent to receive feedback and ideas without a doubt. As long as people understand that many of these things just may not be possible hah.

Also, asking to scrap the mod and start from scratch? Sigh... It was probably meant as a joke so no offense taken but you really don't know how difficult and how much work and how much time of my life was spent . Same goes for Marvin and Rubino who is no longer around.To top it all off, I had to work mostly blindly because I was not as talented as Marvin is and probably wasted who knows how much time fumbling in the dark. I haven't been around for a bit and Marvin has done an amazing job keeping things together and improving the mod

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Marvin Martian





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PostPosted: Wed, 25. Jul 18, 23:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Add new build to github, wrecked ships can now recycled (it is very basic calculation ATM), not successful restored ships can now also used for recycle, but it is a huge chance it will fail in that case, the only sure chance is recycle the wreck directly - loot is a bit depending on your welder drone count, so you can recycle ships if you have only 10, but if you have more of them (or additional marines) yield is higher

anyway, best is test game at "normal" difficult setting

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Warnoise





Joined: 08 Mar 2016



PostPosted: Thu, 26. Jul 18, 10:05    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

You guys are doing god's work with this mod. I can't imagine the amount of work that went in it. Thank you.

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roy35150





Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 44 on topic

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PostPosted: Thu, 26. Jul 18, 16:44    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

The mod is Amazing,

And yes i was stupidly joking around.

Thank you for your continued time and effort...

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Vectorial1024





Joined: 30 Jul 2018
Posts: 11 on topic

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PostPosted: Fri, 3. Aug 18, 14:56    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hey there, I got a few questions/suggestions:

  • Should we try to convert other mods to use the Universal Ship Part production method? Like ships from the DLC, Lost Sectors, etc?
  • I was wandering in Roguey's X Rebirth Site to collect some info (great website btw), and saw an unused ware identified as "Economy Test: Station Part". If this mod is implementing the "Station Part" concept, perhaps we should start from there?
  • If the "Station Part" concept is implemented, then the turret wares will lose their purpose. (Neither ships nor stations would require turrets, and would use "Weapon Parts" instead) Then, in this case, should the Turret Forge in military tech stations be reconfigured to make "Weapon Parts"?
  • I think I have seen strange stuff like hostile I-Mk3 owned by Republic of Cantera when I am like +10 with ROC. Could this be related to "cover factions" and how does this mod handle "cover factions"?

The mod is great btw, and I hope to help improve it.


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Warnoise





Joined: 08 Mar 2016



PostPosted: Mon, 6. Aug 18, 13:24    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Marvin Martian wrote:
Add new build to github, wrecked ships can now recycled (it is very basic calculation ATM), not successful restored ships can now also used for recycle, but it is a huge chance it will fail in that case, the only sure chance is recycle the wreck directly - loot is a bit depending on your welder drone count, so you can recycle ships if you have only 10, but if you have more of them (or additional marines) yield is higher

anyway, best is test game at "normal" difficult setting


Will the NPC also recycle ships?


Edit: I have something to report, I am actually using the latest version of the mod, I ordered 3 sucelluses (2 normal sucellus and 1 Sucellus vanguard) to attack a xenon to check their fight pattern. 3 of the sucelluses boosted towards the target then stopped at around 12km away from it, they hit it with IHC cannon like once then they just turned upwards at the same time..

I gave the attack order again, only one of the sucellus jumped about 7 km away from the target (with its main cannon facing the target) and hit it with IHC like once then again it faced upwards...

I think the Sucellus fight pattern has bugged (the same with balor i guess)

Is there a way to check the log? I saved just before ordering the attack so i think i can reproduce it.

My mod list is: (other than this mod of course)
-Five star crew
-w.e_moc-t (it has radar ship military 01 macro)
-Repair laser
-prosper devries

And that's it.
===============================================
Ok after playing until i reached mid-late game (i exclusively only used canteran ships and balor as an exception)

-The beginning was great: factions build ships, economy is moving

-Starting from mid game freighters have almost disappeared, all of hem must have been destroyed, only small freighters still running around

-The economy is dead starting from mid game, nobody is selling or buying wares (very few L freighters in the world)

-Devries shipyard not buying ship parts despite lowering the price to minimum and being in the same zone

-There is a bug where if we hit a target with novadrones and the novadrones explode into the target before we get to pilot it, the player ship doesn't move anymore (need to reload to fix)i think this bug is not related to mod though

-The fight AI reminds me of Xrebirth 1.x: ships flying around randomly hitting targets, sometimes they boost into enemies, the same with fighters. I don't know why but ive seend them behaving correctly in previous versions but in this version the battle AI is very strange

-Factions stopped building ships from mid game because nobody is selling/buying ship parts

-Since all ships are carrying too many drones, ship battles become a slideshow from the sheer number of drones flying in the screen. I don't think this is related to the mod, but i recommend tuning down the type of ships carrying 100+ drones (only carriers should have that number, others should be around 20 for fps purpose)

-There are random stutters happening throughout the game, they make it almost unplayable, i don't know if this is related to the mod or not.

-Ally ships and player owned ships don't stop firing when i board a ship

PS: When i played this version I didn't start a new game, I reloaded a save in which i used an old version of this mod...is this ok?

I started the game as very hard then changed to normal, is that ok?

save file available upon request. I'll try to test more stuff (hard to have fun with the stutters and the dumb ai though Sad )

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Marvin Martian





Joined: 08 Apr 2012
Posts: 2544 on topic

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PostPosted: Tue, 7. Aug 18, 15:42    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

no, recycling is actually a player only thing to support pirate gameplay
maybe i can add something to traders to recycle wrecks in case it will result in usefull tradeware to his job - dedicated recyclers i think will not really make sense

some fixes effect only at a new(er) gamestart
for example all traders may use older AI
Economy should be tested best with newest build because it is added some stuff that can cause problems with old saves economy is still down

Sucellus and all derivates is very close to get removed from game Evil or Very Mad don't know whats happend again, don't use that crappy thing if it does't work Rolling Eyes

but savegame is always welcome to take a look into

next time i may add an update related to DV Shipyard, smallships there then should build based by Shipparts to prevent storage problems

@Vectorial1024
some partial supported Mods that add ships are still supported by Shipparts

if you play with additional shipmods and shipyards the turrets not fully out of business, because of that i won't remove them fully

StationParts still not implemented, because it would be huge amount of work to add/change ressouce-wares of all Stationsparts that can build and additional mods may bring some parts too, so it seems to difficult to manage this idea finally
covering is long discussed point - i start thinking it would be less problematic i send only common mining ships for "scouting" so nobody take much notice about them, instead of big Xenon-Ships Shocked

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Vectorial1024





Joined: 30 Jul 2018
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modified
PostPosted: Wed, 8. Aug 18, 09:01    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

There is a serious problem that needs to be solved as soon as possible.

(I will limit the Universe to Albion, DeVries, Omicron Lyrae, and Maelstrom for now)

There are a total of 9 stations in the Universe that produces turrets, but in the Universe, turrets (weapons) are installed using Ship Parts (Weapons).
As a result, there is basically no demand for turrets; demand for turrets while building stations is low compared to demand for turrets while building ships.

With a lot of unwanted turrets sitting at the top of the production chain, the economy slows down.

I propose:

  • Turret Forge (in various stations) produce "Weapon Parts" instead of the many kinds of turrets
  • Civ Ship Parts Lots (and its OL counterpart) no longer produce "Ship Parts (Weapons)"
  • Turrets on ships require "Weapon Parts" instead of "Ship Parts (Weapons)"

This should:

  • restore the economy back to its optimal level by restoring demand for "turrets"
  • increase production of Ship Part at Shipyards (no longer cycles between Ship Parts and Ship Parts (Weapons))


We can never be sure that we cover all other mods. We only have to expand this mod to cover the other mods when needed.

EDIT: I think we should split the Weapon Parts into Standard and Advanced version. I was trying to come up with ratio patterns, and realized Standard Turrets and Advanced Turrets use different ware ratios.

EDIT2: ...

EDIT3: Deleted EDIT2; my bad...


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Last edited by Vectorial1024 on Thu, 9. Aug 18, 13:31; edited 3 times in total
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Warnoise





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PostPosted: Wed, 8. Aug 18, 15:21    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

by the way is there a version of this mod with 4.3 vanilla fight ai?

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Tenlar Scarflame





Joined: 30 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed, 8. Aug 18, 21:18    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hey folks ^^ I'm looking at both NF and CWIR for all my galaxy-wide slugfest needs, and it's a little ambiguous which is the most stable at the moment. Is NF more or less in good shape for general use? Or should I go for the 1.67 release of CWIR?


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Vectorial1024





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PostPosted: Thu, 9. Aug 18, 04:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Tenlar Scarflame wrote:
Hey folks ^^ I'm looking at both NF and CWIR for all my galaxy-wide slugfest needs, and it's a little ambiguous which is the most stable at the moment. Is NF more or less in good shape for general use? Or should I go for the 1.67 release of CWIR?

Personally, if you want to have smooth gameplay, use CWIR 1.66 (1.67 should be similar to 1.66 anyways); but if you want to "try new stuff", then use NF.

One thing though: CWIR might break shipyards from other mods, but for NF, as long as you use mods that it supports (check the NF GitHub repo), you should be fine.


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captainradish





Joined: 30 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Fri, 10. Aug 18, 00:00    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Since we have a great ship builder associated with this mod is there any way we can make requests? I've been looking for a physically small, very fast L-class ship that can be used as a combo light freighter, scout, and light warship. The "Loki" from lost sectors fits the bill exactly, but it is really rare and a bit ugly.

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BlackRain
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PostPosted: Fri, 10. Aug 18, 01:55    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

captainradish wrote:
Since we have a great ship builder associated with this mod is there any way we can make requests? I've been looking for a physically small, very fast L-class ship that can be used as a combo light freighter, scout, and light warship. The "Loki" from lost sectors fits the bill exactly, but it is really rare and a bit ugly.


There are already ships like this in the mod, it is the Sennin line which I made for the pirates. There are a few different variants of them that use different weapons.

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captainradish





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PostPosted: Fri, 10. Aug 18, 20:26    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

BlackRain wrote:
captainradish wrote:
Since we have a great ship builder associated with this mod is there any way we can make requests? I've been looking for a physically small, very fast L-class ship that can be used as a combo light freighter, scout, and light warship. The "Loki" from lost sectors fits the bill exactly, but it is really rare and a bit ugly.


There are already ships like this in the mod, it is the Sennin line which I made for the pirates. There are a few different variants of them that use different weapons.


I suppose. The Sennin's are decent and I use them quite a bit, they're just a bit bulky and dull.

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