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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Mon, 20. Aug 18, 23:30

Strange tales from the Citadel of Mammon:

Back in 1986, while Thatcher was busily wrecking the economy of the UK, the Sun ( - at that time, the UK's highest selling daily newspaper)
ran the headline: "Freddie Starr ate my hamster" - followed by a completely fabricated story.. - you can imagine the uproar that this caused..

Fox News proprietor, the Lizard of Oz Rupert Murdoch, owns the Sun - so he's very familiar with the
idea of creating diversionary, sensationalist nonsense to deflect public interest from political meddling..

- we have had some pretty shameful conservative governance here, in the UK, in recent years,
but Thatcher's privatisation/trickle-down crap was a truly low point in modern UK history - we have yet to recover..

- consequently, we're used to this sort of garbage.. especially from Dirty Digger Murdoch and the right-wing press (- ie. the Mail, The Telegraph, etc..)
- they were all against the EU right from the word go, with crazy tales of straight bananas, etc..
- they were all very vocally pro-Brexit, and supportive of the proto-fascist, Nigel Farage and UKIP..

- it's all part of the con that Murdoch regularly pulls, to assist bad government..
- they actually pay him to do it.. :o :o
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Post by Skism » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 00:15

BugMeister wrote:Strange tales from the Citadel of Mammon:

Back in 1986, while Thatcher was busily wrecking the economy of the UK, the Sun ( - at that time, the UK's highest selling daily newspaper)
ran the headline: "Freddie Starr ate my hamster" - followed by a completely fabricated story.. - you can imagine the uproar that this caused..

Fox News proprietor, the Lizard of Oz Rupert Murdoch, owns the Sun - so he's very familiar with the
idea of creating diversionary, sensationalist nonsense to deflect public interest from political meddling..

- we have had some pretty shameful conservative governance here, in the UK, in recent years,
but Thatcher's privatisation/trickle-down crap was a truly low point in modern UK history - we have yet to recover..

- consequently, we're used to this sort of garbage.. especially from Dirty Digger Murdoch and the right-wing press (- ie. the Mail, The Telegraph, etc..)
- they were all against the EU right from the word go, with crazy tales of straight bananas, etc..
- they were all very vocally pro-Brexit, and supportive of the proto-fascist, Nigel Farage and UKIP..

- it's all part of the con that Murdoch regularly pulls, to assist bad government..
- they actually pay him to do it.. :o :o
Citadel of Mammon ?! :lol:

Thats rich and I don't know where you get the idea that Rubert Murduch is the 'Lizard of OZ'

And trust me the media is most certainly not anti EU from where I stand they are rabidly Pro EU.

but we are getting off topic here with Lizard Kings ;)
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest."

-Thomas Paine-

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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 00:17

- it's all about the lobbyist takeover of free government
- nowadays you don't invade a country - you just buy it..:D

- it's the only way to negotiate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Qcm24dxaA

Lemmy got it right - eat the rich.. ha, ha!!

:lol:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by Skism » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 00:26

clakclak wrote:
Skism wrote:[...]
Top comment at breitbart (im sure some of you will automatically discount it ...never mind ;) )
[...]
You are right. I will automatically discount anything coming from Breitbart or the Daily Stormer entirely. :)
Right The daily Stormer is a neo nazi website ;)

Brietbart is a right wing news website

Don't get those two mixed up it will get you in Trouble with the the latter as they will be offended at the slur, (they are nominally pro zionist) and the former will likely murder you in an alley given the chance to do so.

I would suggest you don't equate the two ;)
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest."

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Post by Skism » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 00:34

Chips wrote:Skism - do you know why they're allowed to "keep their security classification", what that really means and enables? Ignore the news for a moment, what do you think happens with this guys "security clearance"; what does he do with that clearance? How does he use it?
Well it means that he can't work in any area of the US federal government that requires clerance

Or if he wants to work in certain PMCs for example that contract for the US government.

And certain consultancies from what I understand.
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest."

-Thomas Paine-

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Post by BugMeister » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 00:56

Lt. Col. Ralph Peters outlines concern for the future safety of the US political system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEh-jF8CHEQ

Ex-CIA Director John Brennan threatens legal action against Trump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNxnVV5y1Ek

- there's a continuous mocking tone coming from Fox News..
- adding to the chaos and confusion - like a parade of clowns..

Trump gets a timely reminder from John Dean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLqy3fWFFH4

meanwhile, the Elliott Broidy saga continues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJ81maf1G0



- there's trouble brewing.. :o :o
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by Morkonan » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 01:58

BugMeister wrote:...- there's trouble brewing.. :o :o
Trump is simply picking fights that he doesn't have to fight.

See... That's not smart.

If you don't have to fight something, then don't. It makes it much easier to dedicated assets to fighting something that really matters if it comes up.

But, Trump lashes out at everyone and everything, which means he's dumping a lot of energy into useless tasks. And, more importantly, he's expending assets he may need, later.

For instance, he withdrew a security clearance because he was throwing a tantrum and now he's basically alienated the entire intelligence community. Or, at least, every senior retired intelligence official that is still alive... Just ONE of those could have possibly served a use for him, willingly, in a fight he actually needed to fight that was meaningful and useful.

But, now that asset, if it ever existed, has been thrown away or spent on a useless manchild tantrum a smart man wouldn't have chosen.

Every politician needs the support of the "Moderates." Trump has lost most of this formal political "Moderate" support already and is only keeping the moderates that could still be in his base by continually feeding them brown messy stuff that comes out of bulls... When he runs out of BS, what then? What moderates are going to speak out in support of him, then?

What going to happen when he lines his supporters up behind the podium and the only ones there are wearing tinfoil hats and have been convicted of trying to fornicate with their neighbor's cat after mistaking it for an outer-space-alien... Credibility? Probably not.

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Post by Hank001 » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 02:41

The subject of this piece about the Donald should go without saying, but I guess you can call it a "class struggle". :P

Americans want their President to have a little class:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/08/ ... ity-class/

(And that's really what they got. A President with little class :rant: )
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Post by felter » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 02:50

Skism wrote:
Chips wrote:Skism - do you know why they're allowed to "keep their security classification", what that really means and enables? Ignore the news for a moment, what do you think happens with this guys "security clearance"; what does he do with that clearance? How does he use it?
Well it means that he can't work in any area of the US federal government that requires clerance

Or if he wants to work in certain PMCs for example that contract for the US government.

And certain consultancies from what I understand.
LOL, clueless.

Now go and look it up.
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Post by Hank001 » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 03:35

Here's Anderson Cooper wrapping up today's trip down the rabbit hole:

https://youtu.be/ZUU1Vd2E3DY

Makes me wonder; If Trump can revoke clearances, can the Queen revoke Giuliani's KBE? (On the grounds of mental incompetence)
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Post by felter » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 04:18

Here's how the security thing works.

When these people who have security clearance leave a job, you know like the director of the CIA, M15, FBI, MI6 or whatever military service they loose the privilege of that job. The ex director of the CIA just can't walk up to the pentagon, walk in and log onto a computer to read classified material.

The reason they keep the classified security clearance, is that even though they have left the job they actually still work for the government and they can be called upon at anytime, mainly for advice on a subject or to give evidence in front of congress/parliament.

The thing is some of these guys have worked the job for forty years and more, and suddenly they are being asked about something or a conversation that could have happened decades ago, and this is why they have the clearance. It is so they can arrange for them to get access to material that is classified, so that they can look at that material and talk about it.

Even when they arrange to look at the material, that is all they will get access to, they will not be able to look at anything that is unrelated as they do not have access to it and they would not be given access to that material even if they asked, as they would not have a valid reason to be given that access.

Fox and Friends want you to believe these guys still have access to confidential material, they don't. Most of them will never look at anything confidential for the rest of their lives, but they may have to talk about it, and if you take their access to secret and confidential material, they cannot even talk about it to someone who still has that access, because the person who still has it would be breaking the law by talking to someone who doesn't have it. So as soon as you take it away, you loose that source of information. It's like burning all of the books in a library, if you need the information from those books it is no longer there.

Making money from it, they don't, these guys have more integrity in their little finger, than all of those from Fox and Brietbart put together. Out of all of these guys, the only person that is currently known to have given away classified top secret information is Donald Trump, and he gave the information quite freely to the Russians.

One other thing of note, you can't just give someone clearance but you can just take it away.
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Post by Skism » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 04:34

felter wrote:
Skism wrote:
Chips wrote:Skism - do you know why they're allowed to "keep their security classification", what that really means and enables? Ignore the news for a moment, what do you think happens with this guys "security clearance"; what does he do with that clearance? How does he use it?
Well it means that he can't work in any area of the US federal government that requires clearance

Or if he wants to work in certain PMCs for example that contract for the US government.

And certain consultancies from what I understand.
LOL, clueless.

Now go and look it up.
Charming as always Felter....0 manners as always :)

Its anyone with access to classified intelligence. Or who has ever had access.

Which btw does include some consultancies and agencies like the one Edward Snowden was employed by....
Anyone with access to classified data requires a clearance at or higher than the level at which the data is classified. For this reason, security clearances are required for a wide range of jobs, from senior management to janitorial. According to a 2013 Washington Post article, over 1.5 million Americans had top-secret clearances; almost one-third of them worked for private companies, rather than for the U.S. government.[25][26]

Jobs that require a security clearance can be found either as positions working directly for the federal government or as authorized federal contractors. Over time, more clearance jobs are being outsourced to contractors.[27] Due to an overall shortage in security-cleared candidates and a long time frame to obtain the credentials for an uncleared worker, those with clearance are often paid more than their non-cleared equivalent counterparts.[28][29][30] According to one 2010 estimate, "people with security clearances are in the top 10 percent of wage earners in the country".[31]
So in other words nothing I said was wrong and you decided to take cheap shots because it was not worded EXACTLY how you think

And yes that would include as well PMCs as well as (though this is obvious) the FBI the CIA and other intelligence agencies.

Basically this severely limits his ability to work in a official capacity or talk about it ever I kinda thought that obvious TBH as I hinted at that with "any area of the US federal government that requires clearance"

But then I guess I have to spell it out for some to be satisfied!

Donald Trump's press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of "high crimes & misdemeanors". It was nothing short of "treasonous". Not only were Trump's comments "imbecilic", he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???
And by the way try calling your boss a treasonous imbecile and see if you have a job!

*hint you won't*

but some how the left thinks rules don't apply to it but expects this to apply to others!
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest."

-Thomas Paine-

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Post by Morkonan » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 05:05

Skism wrote:...And by the way try calling your boss a treasonous imbecile and see if you have a job!

*hint you won't*
Just a note: The President isn't their boss.
but some how the left thinks rules don't apply to it but expects this to apply to others!
Not sure exactly what this was pointed at, and I am certainly not volunteering myself to jump into the disagreement you guys are having.. but...

A security clearance can be needed in the private sector. This is true. It can also be desirable to have for certain sorts of private sector employment. That is also true. But, being an ex-director of the CIA isn't the only way to get a security clearance. HOWEVER, it is true that a certain level of pre-qualified security clearances may be required for a private contractor to work on or, yes, even bid on a particular contract.

But, not every swinging belt-buckle at Lockheed has some level of Galactic clearance...

And, for the people concerned with these clearances being revoked, many are not employed in careers where that level of security clearance is necessary or even needed. AND, more importantly, as has been pointed out, their need for "current secrets" that lie beneath that level of security is very likely nil. Zero. Nada. If a contractor needed "CIA DIRECTOR LEVEL" of security... Well, they wouldn't be bidding on many contracts, would they? Who would?

I believe that the reasons for the revocation of these clearances is painfully clear. I also believe that the current excuses being promulgated by the White House and argued in favor of by certain media are... BS and everyone knows they're BS.

Trump wanted to send a message and sent it. That's it. Why is there a need to proffer some fantasy that he acted to "stop these guys from making money off of the back of taxpayers?" That's friggin stupid.

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Post by Chips » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 08:18

Quickly, as I head off to work :D

@Skism

Essentially, security clearance is controlled by the Government - whether you're US, or any other nation. Private companies have zero control over security clearance, it is entirely the Government. The Government decides who has it based upon strict, stringent, incredibly invasive background checks and more. They decide whether to take it away, and as a rule of thumb, it lapses when you leave their employ. It is based around the presumption of "need"; if there is no need, you do not have it. It isn't a badge you're given, it'll be on a system somewhere. It will get regularly re-validated through interviews and checks again.

So the fact they "kept" (aka the Government didn't remove it from them) indicates that they're working for the Government in a role. Now that role may be a service provided by an external company, or as a contractor. But it is still a role for the Government.

Private companies/contractors may offer jobs that require you to have (or recently held) security clearance. But again, this is because they're doing a job for the Government; they're contracted to do said job. Think the likes of companies building the F35, or military ships/equipment and so on.

Having a security clearance means that you're essentially "trustworthy" - and they'll allow you to work on sensitive things that otherwise you would never be granted access to. By and large, anything protectively marked will mean that disclosure of said material could cause material damage to the nation - financial, reputational, or other.

So what does having security clearance for this Ex-CIA or whatever role he was - mean? It means he works for the Government still. It may be as a contractor, but don't get mistaken, he's executing a job for the Government.

What it means he can't do - he can't (for example) walk up to the CIA and say "Let me in". He can't just start striking up conversations about sensitive stuff that he has no business knowing about either (need to know).

And finally, it absolutely means he cannot sell his knowledge of sensitive material to companies for personal gain. That is completely, wholly, and legally, against the secrets act of any nation. Doing so would mean jail time. His clearance would be revoked in minutes.

So no, while he may have a role as a private contractor to consult on the Government given his experience and knowledge, he cannot work for external agencies that aren't providing services to the Government (or even if they are) and start leaking secrets to them for their, and his, financial gain.

Anyone (including those websites you link) insinuating, or accusing him, of doing so are smearing his reputation with lies. Do you think for one second that the Government would neither be aware, or allow, that to happen? No.

So, those media sites you are reading are smearing this guy because they dislike what he is saying.

To recap - his security clearance is to enable him to provide the Government with services that require security clearance. He doesn't have access to everything, only limited information they deem necessary to reveal to him to execute the role they want him for. If he was selling his knowledge of state secrets then he'd have been jailed years ago.

Stop believing every word printed by the press for crying out loud; they're full of garbage and have an agenda - if you hadn't noticed. But isn't it amazing that as soon as 20 odd former heads of intelligence and other agencies criticise Trump, that all the insinuations and revelations about them having clearance being inappropriate, sold for financial gain etc, comes to light? Coincidence? A sudden revelation? No, it's called smears and spin.
Whether he has security clearance is up to the Government and what they wish to continue to use him for. It's not up for the media to decide - they literally know jack shizzle as to what he does.

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Post by Hank001 » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 14:58

@Chips

Having held some hefty security clearances "back in the day" I'll vouch that your information on the mechanics as far as it goes to when someone keeps a security clearance after you leave government service goes. In the cases put forth by Trump thing get a bit sticky.

You see it's also very much about what these people know. They keep their clearanes not only so they can be brought in on future events where their expertice could be needed, but one other reason.
What they know that is presently still classified. And THIS puts these people into a very dangerous category if their clearanes are taken away. They then become categorised as possible threats to National Security.

This I think this might be Trump's real tack because some or most of his targets could them go under review by authorities that bypass almost every written legality and whose powers to "sanction" national security threats are in and of themselves classified at the highest levels. In fact this was the "legality" that kept the prison at Guantanamo Bay open when so many legal entities tried in vein to close it.

Given that people like Clapper still carry knowledge that is no doubt still classified at the highest level and now have the full weight of national security sanctions poised to be put on them you might see why there's an outcry against Trump's use of revocation as a political tool. Because it could and might very well lead to to the individuals incarceration without the habeus corpus, tried in secret and ect.

It's this possibility that I don't think has caught on with the media and the national security community are loath to talk about. But it's there.
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Post by RegisterMe » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 16:11

Hank001 wrote:Interesting stuff
I hope you're wrong, and if you're right I hope there's sufficient uproar that it gets revoked / cancelled / nullified / sanctioned asap.
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Post by BugMeister » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 16:24

more on the madness of Donald J Drumpf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKa4HuPA9Vo

- this is real
- he actually thinks he can investigate himself..!!

- his hubris has driven him right off the edge.. :o :o
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by fiksal » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 16:29

Hank001 wrote:very interesting stuff
Well damn, and here I thought this is simple as Trump throwing a tantrum again.

But now, he could be aiming for political prisons.

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Post by Hank001 » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 16:35

Actually I did some digging and what I was getting at is only hinted at and vaguely at that, which is probably why the media is staying away from it. There aren't any real facts out there in unclassified form, but some big hints:

http://theaccu-factscompany.com/nationa ... efinition/

If you want to spend a day wading thtrough the deep and dark:

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/ic-legal- ... ct-of-1947

This is a pdf download of the original act. Note that the classified parts span volumes:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 4861330578
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Post by BugMeister » Tue, 21. Aug 18, 16:40

the office of the President is in no way like the duties of a CEO..
the idiot Trump is so used to behaving like a tyrant while acting as a CEO

- the fool has no sense of public duty
- none whatsoever..

- look at the hopeless cabinet he has formed
- all of them are under the impression that they're CEO's of USA Inc.
- the ultra-rich lobbyists are treated as though they are the majority shareholders..
- Betsy De Vos and Scott Pruett are prime examples of this muddled way of thinking..

- Thatcher acted in exactly the same way, as she dismantled the UK economy..
- and as I've said before - we have still not recovered from her disastrous tenure in office.. :o :o
Last edited by BugMeister on Tue, 21. Aug 18, 16:49, edited 3 times in total.
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