Series 11 Dr Who

[Antilogic]

Well the sexist already left the thread before I watched it, woo \o/

OK, finally got to this last night. Episode itself was OK, not the best opener (Still Matt Smiths for me) but damn Jodie NAILED it as The Doctor. I was hoping she would be good but damn she was great.

Rest of the cast was OK:

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RIP Grandma as the best supporting actor there Would have loved to see more of her. I was hoping for "Doctor recent regeneration miracle moment" but nope

[Hemmingfish]

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RIP Grandma as the best supporting actor there Would have loved to see more of her. I was hoping for "Doctor recent regeneration miracle moment" but nope

I'm so glad they didn't cop out like that. Characters' deaths meant nothing under Moffat because he couldn't let them stay dead unless they were redshirts.

[Antilogic]

I'm so glad they didn't cop out like that.

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Agreed, I just liked her character and would have liked to have seen more.

[Aye Capn]

The original Romana was the same species as The Doctor. They could've kept the species sexually separated and given the show to her had they not retconned her change of species.

But as written The Doctor, as presumably every member of the species, isn't actually a woman but a transsexual. It would be a mistake to apply the rules of human biology and social development to a species that contains both sexes within each individual.

Transsexual Time Lords should have totally different conceptions about sex and gender than humans. If Romana (original species) and The Doctor fall in love while the same sex can they "wait it out" to have children until they are separate sexes? A non-bisexual Time Lord would be considered anomalous and weird:
"I can't wait for you, honey; I'm only attracted to women."
"But 100 years ago I WAS a woman. What's the big deal?"
"I don't know. I guess I was born this way."
"So when you regenerate into a man and I into a woman then we can plan our family?"
"Hmmm .... well, I ... guess so ..."

That Sonic Blaster Torchwood dude who had the gay hots for The Doctor probably had an even shot without ever understanding why. I wonder if he got his wish whether he would continue to feel the same toward The Doctor in her female form? The "Time Lord" species has been transformed by the writers into beings truly alien.

I haven't seen the new series but I'm going to guess they have no idea what they've done and are simply being politically correct. Making aliens alien is one of the best features of good science fiction, but almost no one seems to write them that way anymore.

[Antilogic]

The show also does a million other things different now from the original series but there's oddly a lot less discussion about that then that OMG THE DOCTOR IS A WOMAN HOW TERRIBLE FOR THE LORE.

****ing rubbish all of it. Note how this thread is constantly assaulted by this "not at all sexist driven discussion".

[brucewarren]

In all this talk about the Doctor's sex change I think we're missing the most important question.

Is she going to fix the damned chameleon circuit?

Come on Doc it's been stuck that way since you landed in a junkyard in the 'sixties. For someone who professes to care about the old girl you really ought to take better care of her.

[pjknibbs]

Is she going to fix the damned chameleon circuit?

No, for two critical reasons. Firstly, they don't have the budget for the TARDIS to appear different in every episode. Second, and perhaps more importantly, the way the TARDIS looks is iconic--so iconic that the Metropolitan Police actually lost when they sued the BBC for copyright infringement in 2002, because the blue police box had become more associated with Dr. Who than it was with the police! So, for much the same reason as the Daleks will always look much as they always have, the TARDIS isn't going to change shape anytime soon.

[Usenko]

Is she going to fix the damned chameleon circuit?

No, for two critical reasons. Firstly, they don't have the budget for the TARDIS to appear different in every episode. Second, and perhaps more importantly, the way the TARDIS looks is iconic--so iconic that the Metropolitan Police actually lost when they sued the BBC for copyright infringement in 2002, because the blue police box had become more associated with Dr. Who than it was with the police! So, for much the same reason as the Daleks will always look much as they always have, the TARDIS isn't going to change shape anytime soon.

Plus they've now built so many cool comments into the background . . .

"Every time the TARDIS materialises in a new location, within the first nanosecond of landing, it analyses its surroundings, calculates a twelve-dimensional data map of everything within a thousand-mile radius and then determines which outer shell would blend in best with the environment.... and then it disguises itself as a police telephone box from 1963."

[Antilogic]

Plus they've now built so many cool comments into the background . . .

"Every time the TARDIS materialises in a new location, within the first nanosecond of landing, it analyses its surroundings, calculates a twelve-dimensional data map of everything within a thousand-mile radius and then determines which outer shell would blend in best with the environment.... and then it disguises itself as a police telephone box from 1963."

One of my favorite lines.

Is she going to fix the damned chameleon circuit?

No, for two critical reasons. Firstly, they don't have the budget for the TARDIS to appear different in every episode. Second, and perhaps more importantly, the way the TARDIS looks is iconic--so iconic that the Metropolitan Police actually lost when they sued the BBC for copyright infringement in 2002, because the blue police box had become more associated with Dr. Who than it was with the police! So, for much the same reason as the Daleks will always look much as they always have, the TARDIS isn't going to change shape anytime soon.

I wish I could agree with you, but then I recall that ST:Discovery has screwed with core designs themselves...and I could see some foolish people in the future deciding to do so well for Doctor Who

[matthewfarmery]

Plus they've now built so many cool comments into the background . . .

"Every time the TARDIS materialises in a new location, within the first nanosecond of landing, it analyses its surroundings, calculates a twelve-dimensional data map of everything within a thousand-mile radius and then determines which outer shell would blend in best with the environment.... and then it disguises itself as a police telephone box from 1963."

One of my favorite lines.

Is she going to fix the damned chameleon circuit?

No, for two critical reasons. Firstly, they don't have the budget for the TARDIS to appear different in every episode. Second, and perhaps more importantly, the way the TARDIS looks is iconic--so iconic that the Metropolitan Police actually lost when they sued the BBC for copyright infringement in 2002, because the blue police box had become more associated with Dr. Who than it was with the police! So, for much the same reason as the Daleks will always look much as they always have, the TARDIS isn't going to change shape anytime soon.

I wish I could agree with you, but then I recall that ST:Discovery has screwed with core designs themselves...and I could see some foolish people in the future deciding to do so well for Doctor Who

I think the reason why ST:Discovery did screw over the designs, was due to copyright reasons.


As for the TARDIS, that is just iconic, and O doubt it will change anytime soon.

[pjknibbs]

I wish I could agree with you, but then I recall that ST:Discovery has screwed with core designs themselves...and I could see some foolish people in the future deciding to do so well for Doctor Who

I don't think ST: Discovery really screwed around with core designs that much? The Discovery itself is a really odd design, that much is true, but their version of the TOS Enterprise that appeared in the final episode actually looked fairly close to the original--it was sort of a combination of features from the 1960s series and the movie refit version, and it looked absolutely fine, IMHO. The equivalent with the TARDIS would be changing the size of the windows, which they do from time to time anyway!

[Antilogic]

I wish I could agree with you, but then I recall that ST:Discovery has screwed with core designs themselves...and I could see some foolish people in the future deciding to do so well for Doctor Who

I don't think ST: Discovery really screwed around with core designs that much? The Discovery itself is a really odd design, that much is true, but their version of the TOS Enterprise that appeared in the final episode actually looked fairly close to the original--it was sort of a combination of features from the 1960s series and the movie refit version, and it looked absolutely fine, IMHO. The equivalent with the TARDIS would be changing the size of the windows, which they do from time to time anyway!

Starfleet designs were fine, good even. I'm mostly referring to the Klingon's. Generally because I think they made them oh so much worse, in both species and ship design.

[pjknibbs]

Starfleet designs were fine, good even. I'm mostly referring to the Klingon's. Generally because I think they made them oh so much worse, in both species and ship design.

I think they were following the lead set by the reboot movies for the Klingons' appearance at least, not sure about the ship designs.

[Golden_Gonads]

Starfleet designs were fine, good even. I'm mostly referring to the Klingon's. Generally because I think they made them oh so much worse, in both species and ship design.

From the trailer, Klingons and their ships for Season Two will be much more inline with previous appearances. Though Klingons are more Next Generation in appearance compared with the originals.

[Antilogic]

Starfleet designs were fine, good even. I'm mostly referring to the Klingon's. Generally because I think they made them oh so much worse, in both species and ship design.

From the trailer, Klingons and their ships for Season Two will be much more inline with previous appearances. Though Klingons are more Next Generation in appearance compared with the originals.

\o/

[pjknibbs]

From the trailer, Klingons and their ships for Season Two will be much more inline with previous appearances. Though Klingons are more Next Generation in appearance compared with the originals.

I don't think anyone was actually asking for Klingons to look like dusky humans with impressive moustaches, were they?

(Having said that, I just went and watched a season 2 trailer for Discovery and didn't see a single Klingon in it...have you a link to the one you saw that did?).

[Golden_Gonads]

(Having said that, I just went and watched a season 2 trailer for Discovery and didn't see a single Klingon in it...have you a link to the one you saw that did?).

It was the same trailer you saw, and if I'm honest, I never caught it either. However I heard of it elsewhere and a quick nose around shows this screengrab: https://www.newsweek.com/star-trek-disc ... te-1160456

[pjknibbs]

Ah, OK. I actually quite like the explanation given (Klingons shave in time of war and grow their hair out when they're at peace)--it adds a bit to the lore without directly contradicting anything we've seen before.

Back on topic, I just watched the second episode of Who, and I definitely wasn't as impressed with it as I was with the first episode. It seemed to me that Chris Chibnall was deliberately trying to add more "sciencey bits" and making a hash of it:

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There was the perfect Prometheus moment where the group ran straight in front of a crashing spaceship without running up the short bank to the side and getting out of the way. They said at least twice that the atmosphere of the planet was toxic, which made it pretty amazing that nobody had any problem breathing it for a day or more. The "acetylene fields" were an absolute joke--first off, acetylene being lighter than air doesn't mean it settles into a layer 3 feet off the ground, it disappears off into the distance; if they *had* somehow ignited such a layer of acetylene immediately above them, it would have blown more than their socks off; and carbon dioxide is heavier than air, so it would fall out of that flaming layer and suffocate the people lying underneath it in short order.

Then there was no reason for Epzo to change his mind as massively as he did at the end and no reason for Ilin to kow-tow to his threats. As for the new TARDIS interior--I hated it. It looked gloomy, and I still don't understand why the TARDIS can completely re-build its interior but still has to use controls on the console that look like they came from a skip sometime around 1953.

[Bishop149]

Ok, first the Star Trek tangent about Klingons.

I dislike almost everything about the way Disco treats the Klingons, from the entire aesthetic to the stupid stilted way they made them talk. Yes Klingon is a rather guttural language, but this doesn't mean you have to sound like you're tripping over your syllables the whole time, example: literally every other time any actor has ever spoken it. I disagree however that they inherited all this from the recent reboot movies, because generally speaking I like the Klingons in these. The brief amount of time a D4 was on screen in into darkness almost made me yell "Yes! finally thats what a Klingon ship should look like!" Mean, sleek, manoeuvrable and looking like it might actually deserve the title "Bird of Prey".
I can see the similarities in the character design, but again it seems like the into darkness Klingon are the Discovery ones just done properly. Its like Disco looked at them and was like "Ok, that. . . but more. . . and worse. . . so much worse."

Klingons aside though I will say there's a fair bit of Disco I liked.

Right back on topic.
The second episode, some excellent concepts and ideas all rather poorly executed

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I too disliked the way that Epzo suddenly decided to be a nice guy right at the end in sharp contradiction to his entire stated philosophy as if the Dr merely going "You're wrong!" is sufficient to change someones entire worldview. I could of sworn he was going to die, in the classic move: "Here's the character you're meant to hate so its ok when we kill him". Also an epic race across a deadly planet that seems to take 10 minutes and present 3 threats (one of which they just give you a boat to overcome). Oh and the convenient "exposition painting" on the floor. But these are hardly new criticisms of a Dr Who episode.

However, Jodie continues to do an excellent job of the character and (in contrast to Pjk) I absolutely love everything about this seasons "Dr Aesthetic", clothes, screwdriver, TARDIS the lot.

Edit: Oh I just read the the next episode is going to focus upon a historical figure. . . . specifically Rosa Parks. This seams deliberately engineered to make the Daily Mail comments section froth at the mouth over "political correctness" which is ****ing brilliant and I applaud them for it. If you're going to enrage bigots merely by casting a woman, hell go all out and REALLY upset them by focusing a whole episode on a black, female civil rights activist. Wonderful.

[Antilogic]

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The episode was OK.

I agree with pjknibbs, "Prometheus school of running away from things" came into my head.

The story was passable. Only "enemy" I liked was the race owner holo, who I feel was fun and well acted. The two race computing people were pretty bland. Not a fan of a story arc coming in involving the blue tooth fairies from episode one, cannot get into them as a villain at all.

Really starting to warm to Graham as a character, definitely my favorite of the supporting cast right now.

Jodie did OK. Not as good as Ep1.

Tardis is a bit meh IMO. Shall see how it goes.