Can we see actual gameplay?

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unknown1
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by unknown1 » Sun, 11. Nov 18, 16:44

You will almost never see true gameplay videos longer than a couple of minutes, and even those will be made of tens or hundreds of different clips stitched togheter and heavily edited in order to give the best possible impression.

And there is nothing wrong with this . Everyone wants the best possible profit from the game they release, and that means keeping a low profile when it comes to showing detailed gameplay . Maybe you will notice something that will make you decide you won't buy it or you realize that it's not what you expected in terms of content and mechanics, and again decide not to buy it.

It's simple.

It comes down to the consumer to show some inteligence into not rushing to preorder anything before it is released and tested first.

csaba
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by csaba » Sun, 11. Nov 18, 17:22

Going by unknown1's logic they wouldn't want to make too many videos to spoil the game as some movies done recently. Rather have only a few prepeared which is most wise to release shortly before launch to attract customers. Instead of potential buyers saying " I'll think about it in a month" and forgetting it in a week, they think "'Oh preorder bonus and the game launches in a few days, better buy right now"

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by ZombiePotatoSalad » Sun, 11. Nov 18, 18:00

I don't care if they shows some bugs if they specifically say that there could be bugs. Even if it still may change in the final version, it still helps me feel more included than just "money for product." Just like all the trailers say "Alpha footage, may be subject to change." Okay, that's well and good. I know to expect a change in that department. Now, if they promised something up and down, and then didn't deliver on them, that's entirely different.
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nemesis1982
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by nemesis1982 » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:37

ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Sun, 11. Nov 18, 05:03
@csaba No, it wasn't you. It was CBJ saying "here we go again," which I interpreted as making an assumption of what I was saying instead of actually reading my post.

I remember watching this back when it came out, looking forward to X Rebirth. You know, all these posts we're making about wanting to see more? This is all we want to see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt4B4e3i5_0
Well the thing is many of the opinions are formulated as factual statements. Which make them read as such. Furthermore there are quite a few sentences which might be interpreted as factual statements that Egosoft is doing their job badly.

Now imagine you're doing anything you can (in your own opinion) to please someone, working tirelessly. Then a few guys walk in and keep telling you that it's a fact you're doing a bad job (interpretation). I think his reaction is understandable. Now if it's a good idea is a whole different story. However he's just human so give the guy a break.

@Showing bugs: You do understand how bad of an idea that would be right? If you really want footage of the game just wait till it's out for a week. There'll be sufficient footage by that time. If not PM me with a short list and I'll get back to ya.

@spoiling the game: I think this has become a trend lately. People want to see what they're getting before they commit. The thing is with a creative work that often means spoiling the content. I do understand since there are many cases of promises not fulfilled in recent history.
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VALERIVS
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by VALERIVS » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:51

nemesis1982 wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:37
People want to see what they're getting before they commit. (...) I do understand since there are many cases of promises not fulfilled in recent history.
I do not. People are not patient anymore, and I do not really know when or why that has started (Is it due to all this pre-order BS?)... I, for example, am very sceptical regarding X4 after what has happened with X Rebirth. So this time I just wait until X4 has been released. Maybe just a couple of days, maybe some weeks. And maybe I will never buy X4. That will depend on reviews, actual gameplay videos and whatnot, which I will be there plentifully soon. Egosoft has the chance to convince me with their product -- the moment it arrives or later (when they fixed enough bugs) --, but I have no problem if they are not willing to show off anything before the official release. Time and money are on my side. :)

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by nemesis1982 » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 10:02

HDRhineland wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:51
nemesis1982 wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:37
People want to see what they're getting before they commit. (...) I do understand since there are many cases of promises not fulfilled in recent history.
I do not.
It was of course a generalization and thus many people will not identify with it.
HDRhineland wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:51
People are not patient anymore, and I do not really know when or why that has started (Is it due to all this pre-order BS?)...
I think it has to do with the amount of information that is thrown at them now a days. It results in a kind of paranoia from a lack of information. I do not think preorders are the cause though, just a result/abuse of this impatient behavior.
HDRhineland wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:51
I, for example, am very sceptical regarding X4 after what has happened with X Rebirth. So this time I just wait until X4 has been released. Maybe just a couple of days, maybe some weeks.
It is understandable that you're apprehensive. The only reason I preordered is because I found a good deal (will not have directly available on launch though I think). I am however confident that Egosoft pulls through in the end. They might come out with something that you wouldn't want to call a finished product in anyway or form. However they keep supporting it for years to come! It just takes a year to get it in playable state (my opinion not fact!).
HDRhineland wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:51
And maybe I will never buy X4. That will depend on reviews, actual gameplay videos and whatnot, which I will be there plentifully soon. Egosoft has the chance to convince me with their product -- the moment it arrives or later (when they fixed enough bugs) --, but I have no problem if they are not willing to show off anything before the official release. Time and money are on my side. :)
That's sensible! (Time and money are on your side? Where are you can i join, need them to do somethings for me :P)
Save game editor XR and CAT/DAT Extractor
Keep in mind that it's still a work in progress although it's taking shape nicely.

If anyone is interested in a new save game editor for X4 and would like to contribute to the creation of one let me know. I do not have sufficient time to create it alone, but if there are enough people who want it and want to contribute we might be able to set something up.

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VALERIVS
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by VALERIVS » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 10:49

nemesis1982 wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 10:02
It was of course a generalization and thus many people will not identify with it.
...which is a good thing, because it keeps discussions alive.

Yes, Egosoft is not known for letting their games die some weeks after release. I have to say though that X Rebirth indeed was an all-time low point in their company's history, at least in my opinion. And I am not talking about the questionable game design: The bugs were unfathomable plentiful and did kill every attempt on actually liking the game. I seriously hope they do not got this route again with X4.

Well, just 3 more weeks and we will know more. Until then: Time, money... and COOKIES! :xenon:

Alci
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Alci » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 12:05

nemesis1982 wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:37
@spoiling the game: I think this has become a trend lately. People want to see what they're getting before they commit...
I won't touch the "generic" formulation of that but in X4 case it's not about spoilers really. The so called "spoilers" are all just things you would put in the manual in the "old days". Noone bothers with those anymore, but they were standard issue to EVERY game and they "somehow" managed to provide information without "spoilers". So manuals vs. spoilers, think about it :)

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Alci » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 12:40

HDRhineland wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:51
I do not. People are not patient anymore, and I do not really know when or why that has started (Is it due to all this pre-order BS?)...
now this is extremely shortsighted, so I guess you just don't "remember".

Obvious question would be "when people ever were patient?", but the answer is simple: "never, so far". It's curious the same phrasing (specially the "anymore" part) can be found in 19th century literature, in 18th century newspapers and in fact goes as far as 400BC, and that's not where it "started" that's as far as I've read about it. The only difference is, 21st century internet version starts with "these days...", that's new.

Truth is nature is not patient. Life always takes what it wants by any means necessary. So with the lack of better judgement I would say being patient is unnatural. And people are not far enough to not struggle with their primal instincts.

So now we have internet, didn't changed ANYTHING in people. It's just another "means" to ask for things. The part of "wanting" them NOW, the "people" part, is just the same as it "ever" was.
HDRhineland wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:51
I, for example, am very sceptical regarding X4 after what has happened with X Rebirth.
if I may, this is very shortsighted either. If someone says "flu" way too many people imagine "fever". While I imagine the virus. Same as way too many people just "pay for a product". ...just something to thing about :)

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ZaldronTheSage
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by ZaldronTheSage » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 13:47

Alci wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 12:05
nemesis1982 wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:37
@spoiling the game: I think this has become a trend lately. People want to see what they're getting before they commit...
I won't touch the "generic" formulation of that but in X4 case it's not about spoilers really. The so called "spoilers" are all just things you would put in the manual in the "old days". Noone bothers with those anymore, but they were standard issue to EVERY game and they "somehow" managed to provide information without "spoilers". So manuals vs. spoilers, think about it :)
Oh man, what I would do for a good ol fashioned manual with that fresh printed new box smell. :)
"Since, in the long run, every planetary civilization will be endangered by impacts from space, every surviving civilization is obliged to become spacefaring--not because of exploratory or romantic zeal, but for the most practical reason imaginable: staying alive... If our long-term survival is at stake, we have a basic responsibility to our species to venture to other worlds."
Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994

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Vandragorax
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Vandragorax » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 13:54

I can't believe people are still pining for a written manual in 2018 lol :D Astounding!
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csaba
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by csaba » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 14:29

Vandragorax wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 13:54
I can't believe people are still pining for a written manual in 2018 lol :D Astounding!
For a game this complex? Ofc I need one. Built in guides usually fade away after one use and you have to restart them to appear. A book can be always by your hand.

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VALERIVS
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by VALERIVS » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 14:41

Alci wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 12:40
(...)
While I appreciate your attempt on a philosophical and even a historical analysis of patience, you either miss or simply ignore the context in which my answer has been posted. That of course allowes for some waxy elocution, but it does not mean that it makes sense. The same goes for my restraint regarding pre-ordering X4 after the X Rebirth debacle. But what about the initial question? What do you think: Should we get to see more gameplay before the release of X4?

nemesis1982
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by nemesis1982 » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 14:49

Alci wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 12:05
nemesis1982 wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 09:37
@spoiling the game: I think this has become a trend lately. People want to see what they're getting before they commit...
I won't touch the "generic" formulation of that but in X4 case it's not about spoilers really. The so called "spoilers" are all just things you would put in the manual in the "old days". Noone bothers with those anymore, but they were standard issue to EVERY game and they "somehow" managed to provide information without "spoilers". So manuals vs. spoilers, think about it :)
I whole heatedly disagree! You've defined what is and is not a spoiler for yourself and present it as fact. X games for me is about discovering the mechanics. So seeing them beforehand could be classified as a spoiler!

Also a manual would NOT be provided before release. It would be packaged with the game. Think about that was it?

PS this the way of formulating things I mean. Why not keep a opinion a opinion and please try to see a view point other than your own.
Save game editor XR and CAT/DAT Extractor
Keep in mind that it's still a work in progress although it's taking shape nicely.

If anyone is interested in a new save game editor for X4 and would like to contribute to the creation of one let me know. I do not have sufficient time to create it alone, but if there are enough people who want it and want to contribute we might be able to set something up.

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Slashman » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 14:51

csaba wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 14:29
Vandragorax wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 13:54
I can't believe people are still pining for a written manual in 2018 lol :D Astounding!
For a game this complex? Ofc I need one. Built in guides usually fade away after one use and you have to restart them to appear. A book can be always by your hand.
And become totally irrelevant with a few patches. So you know...your mileage may vary.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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Vandragorax
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Vandragorax » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 14:57

csaba wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 14:29
Vandragorax wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 13:54
I can't believe people are still pining for a written manual in 2018 lol :D Astounding!
For a game this complex? Ofc I need one. Built in guides usually fade away after one use and you have to restart them to appear. A book can be always by your hand.
The last time I bought a 'manual' / game guide book, it was out of date within 6 months after a whole bunch of patches massively changed everything that was in the book lol. They had their place years ago when games were released and didn't change a lot, but now with DLCs, streaming online patches etc. they just don't last to be useful past the first few weeks :)

Edit: ninja'd by above post lol
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by sd_jasper » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 16:49

Slashman wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 14:51
And become totally irrelevant with a few patches. So you know...your mileage may vary.
This! 100%! Like it or not, many games evolve and change over time. I for one like that ES is a company that listens to user feedback, and adjusts their games for years after release! But that means that instructions are going to be be changed over time. Putting something in print can just lead to more confusion.

Hell, I've seen games the get day one patches that make the printed instructions wrong.

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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by csaba » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 17:58

Use a pen to put in notes or get an updated version. I don't mean to get a full colored picture handbook just some basic guidelines I don't feel bad about messing up with some ink.

Got to love having a printer at home. I can write my own and print it out if neccesary. Alt-Tab still doesn't quite work for XR, so having Roguey's open in the browser doesn't help me much. :lol:

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sd_jasper
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by sd_jasper » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 18:34

csaba wrote:
Mon, 12. Nov 18, 17:58
Use a pen to put in notes or get an updated version. I don't mean to get a full colored picture handbook just some basic guidelines I don't feel bad about messing up with some ink.

Got to love having a printer at home. I can write my own and print it out if neccesary. Alt-Tab still doesn't quite work for XR, so having Roguey's open in the browser doesn't help me much. :lol:
Set your screen to "borderless window" and that should help. Or use "alt tab" (steam overlay)... which is less than perfect, but works for me most of the time (just don't try to open IGN...)

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JSalzbrunn
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by JSalzbrunn » Mon, 12. Nov 18, 18:41

Go to your steam - X-Rebirth. On the right side just click "Manual" There you can download a .pdf manual for it. Should maybe helpfull :wink:

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