Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

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Brachra
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Brachra » Sun, 11. Aug 19, 19:31

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Sun, 11. Aug 19, 18:28
Politics has nothing to do with it, The evidence is quite real. There are young Car drivers who drive like they are in their game they have known since a young boy. Yet in reality crashing a real car has significant consequences. This same mental indoctrination can be seen through many game related attitudes amongst the young.
Young are swayed, and think killing is ok, and normal. So why weight a game to fuel that side of their thinking.
We need to be responsible. Not bullish gunghow, shoot at everything as entertainment.
X4 is a very good game, and need not be so violent,

Is this not the reason for a forum, to voice ones opinion on a subject related to the forum.
That being a game that kills things.
The Moto.
Trade, Fight, Build, Think.

Is rather backward.

It ought to be

Think, Trade, Build, ( Then as a last resort ) Fight.
Look. Im glad you have an opinion and are clearly willing to share it. I Disagree with you entirely. But no This is not the reason for a Forum. THIS forum is for X4 discussion not politics or personal politics. there is an Off topic forum and an X4 subreddit available.

Excuse the double post.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by ZombiePotatoSalad » Sun, 11. Aug 19, 23:00

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Fri, 9. Aug 19, 19:56
Good That someone else questions the war side of the game, I think the game is weighted too much on the conflict front.
Ok to have a war zone for those who wish to fight, but to have fighting everywhere is rather stupid and unrealistic. And for me spoils the game.
This big gun killing education from gaming is fuelling those real life death idiots who gun down real people. This we need to stop.
I think the game needs to show the devastating consequences of going into battle, the player needs to lose more and come out the other side wondering why they went into war in the first place. As war is immensely costly.
Letting a player kill and only come out with a scratch, is not how it is in reality.

I fly my personal ships with no guns at all, I have not fired a single shot. And I have no intention of doing so. I play a very quiet game, building, exploring, trading. That is all I need from the game.

Fighting is for fools, idiots, and the deranged.

What category do you come under?
Studies have been done that prove absolutely no correlation between violent video games and real-life violence. You don't see someone rampaging through a shopping mall with a sword, and blaming World of Warcraft.
I played GTA 3 when I was 11 years old (I'm 28 now), and I have yet to go on a single real-life killing spree.

War in the X games gives people another avenue of play. Even if you don't fight in it, it still affects what you do. It drives the economy. What good are all those factories you built if there's no demand? In fact, that's one of the complaints, if I recall. The war would practically grind to a halt, bringing the economy to a standstill, thus ruining the game even for people who avoided the war itself.

No matter your thoughts on the purpose of war in real life, in this video game, it's a necessary component of the universe.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by ZombiePotatoSalad » Sun, 11. Aug 19, 23:06

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Sun, 11. Aug 19, 18:28
Politics has nothing to do with it, The evidence is quite real. There are young Car drivers who drive like they are in their game they have known since a young boy. Yet in reality crashing a real car has significant consequences. This same mental indoctrination can be seen through many game related attitudes amongst the young.
Young are swayed, and think killing is ok, and normal. So why weight a game to fuel that side of their thinking.
We need to be responsible. Not bullish gunghow, shoot at everything as entertainment.
X4 is a very good game, and need not be so violent,

Is this not the reason for a forum, to voice ones opinion on a subject related to the forum.
That being a game that kills things.
The Moto.
Trade, Fight, Build, Think.

Is rather backward.

It ought to be

Think, Trade, Build, ( Then as a last resort ) Fight.
What violence is there that you can see? There is literally no blood. You don't even meet the beings in person that you are fighting.

As for driving dangerously? I'm just learning to drive a motorcycle. I took the safety course. I fully intend to drive safely.
People blame video games for everything.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Brachra » Mon, 12. Aug 19, 07:36

ZombiePotatoSalad wrote:
Sun, 11. Aug 19, 23:06
Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Sun, 11. Aug 19, 18:28
Politics has nothing to do with it, The evidence is quite real. There are young Car drivers who drive like they are in their game they have known since a young boy. Yet in reality crashing a real car has significant consequences. This same mental indoctrination can be seen through many game related attitudes amongst the young.
Young are swayed, and think killing is ok, and normal. So why weight a game to fuel that side of their thinking.
We need to be responsible. Not bullish gunghow, shoot at everything as entertainment.
X4 is a very good game, and need not be so violent,

Is this not the reason for a forum, to voice ones opinion on a subject related to the forum.
That being a game that kills things.
The Moto.
Trade, Fight, Build, Think.

Is rather backward.

It ought to be

Think, Trade, Build, ( Then as a last resort ) Fight.
What violence is there that you can see? There is literally no blood. You don't even meet the beings in person that you are fighting.

As for driving dangerously? I'm just learning to drive a motorcycle. I took the safety course. I fully intend to drive safely.
People blame video games for everything.
Exactly!
and if videogames dictate behavior so much. I used to play a lot of Sim City, Anno 1602, Utopia, etc. in the 80's and 90's. why am i not the ruler of a nation IRL? Or some kind of super rich Mogul?
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by LameFox » Mon, 12. Aug 19, 13:14

If the AI wasn't rubbish you'd never be safe in X4 anyway, since Xenons can hop in a highway and zip around the galaxy bypassing all defences along the way. It's only their sheer ineptitude that leads to them all ending up in different places getting wiped out piecemeal instead of causing serious damage. :-P

But I think war is just a logical extension of a game where you have the option to produce fleets and fight with them. Otherwise half the ships in the game might as well not exist. You'd certainly never need a lot of them. And without simulation of a civilian consumer economy there's little purpose in having much of a trade empire either unless all those resources are going somewhere. In my current game I'm friendly with everyone who can like you, and trade with all of them... I pretty much propped up the HOP economy in the start, with resources the others were generating, because with so few trading partners they weren't able to make much and their stuff was being slowly eradicated. If they weren't fighting each other, I'm not sure I could even do that anymore. That's where their stations and ships and so on end up going, which is why they need more stuff, which is how I can afford my trade ships and the basis of what they spend all their time doing.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by spankahontis » Mon, 12. Aug 19, 18:10

Though I feel the X Economy should be MORE than just War, it's a necessity in order to make sure the game isn't clogged up with stations constantly building and causing eventual FPS reduction; the price we pay for getting rid of the God Engine of X3, which I'm not sad to see go IMHO.
Everything was artificial under that engine.. Spawning traders, fighters and transporters, with spawning factories that I personally felt like we had LESS control in this sandbox if it stayed.
They needed to do away with the easy solution and find away to make it more realistic, which means allot less convenient solutions but if they get it right? The rewards will pay off; an economy that we can be apart of, manipulate for our own benefit.

Xenon have to be that force of nature to ensure the game doesn't expand out of control, but when you get rid of the God Engine that ensures how many stations spawn during a boom and how many are taken away during a bust cycle. It's hard to get it just right, getting rid of the Xenon also needs to be rethought.
Taking all the Xenon Sectors doesn't mean you get rid of the Xenon, they should exist out there beyond established borders, ready to retake space.
They should always exist in the game to serve as that force of nature to keep the Races in check.
Skeeter wrote:
Thu, 8. Aug 19, 15:39
Hey all.

Just wondering why i keep seeing topics about war this war that when the x games arnt about it really its suppose to be a open ended space adventure with some trading some combat some plot some station building if u want. Its not a war game or a rts game. I know some build up fleets but i dont see the point personally as waste of money and time as personally if i want space battles id play homeworld where it would be far far more enjoyable.

Now since with all the topics even egosoft are trying to put wars in because of this which i dont think they should have tbh but thats just me.

There was always wars in X Games before Terran Conflict, the Yaki, The Kha'ak, Terraformer Wars Etc. So they had conflict in X Games, just not the capacity to simulate them until Terran Conflict, which was where X Games were headed from the start, so I personally wasn't surprised that X:Rebirth and X4 was going to make wars on a much grander scale.
You must of known, right? Most the X Economy right from X: Beyond the Frontier was built around Ship building and War.
So I don't understand where you're going here? We've always had conflict in X Games.

If anything your choice to not take part in the war hasn't changed, you still can do that. The Xenon have always been 'by lore' expansionist exterminators, what you're reminiscing about is merely an incomplete mechanic of the past that Egosoft couldn't implement at the time; your nostalgia as a 'peaceful builder simulator' wasn't going to last.
Spawning events where enemy ships jump through the Gate and attack everything in sight was a 'bandaid solution' to the War Mechanics of today that Egosoft wanted to roll out from the start, but didn't have the time, money or resources.

Again, you can still CHOOSE to be that factory mogul or that trader, there are places in space that are safe spots and if that changes? You can still blacklist areas that are too high risk (Once Fixed in later Patches).
But X Games have always been about conflict and the Military Industrial Complex. You can't avoid that, in some way every X Game has it, but it didn't stop you being something else.
The X Games are supposed to be a refection of today's capitalist society and war is big part of the economy.


Skeeter wrote:
Thu, 8. Aug 19, 15:39
I know i wont be popular with this topic but i just dont know why the x games should have it as it will change the whole game if theres actual wars in, i wont be able to just play it safe like i usually do in x games if i have to worry about a big angry fleet crossing a system im in or have stuff in a system that i have made there. Yeah there was a chance some ship might get attacked in past x games but generally if u built in safe home systems u usually would be ok. But if we start making x games a rts as in active fleets and fighting anywhere then its gona mess up the x games i know and wont be x anymore. Not everyone wants a high threat chance when playing x games.

Now i wouldnt be apposed to say a scripted mission where u needed a fleet to combat another fleet in a designated area as thats more controlable as 1 u could accept or decline or ignore the mission and 2 u can read about what u need vs what u fight against and where it is so u can prepare. But this isnt it what the forum folk (some) are pushing for.
As I pointed out above, I like to personally learn about the lore of a game i'm playing, in order to immerse myself in the environment. So I can character develop etc.
Not every Character I make is a war driven persona; I like variety.
So if X4 was solely a war driven game? I'd agree with you.
I liked playing 'Colony Wars 1+2' growing up, but it was solely a Space Combat simulator; if I want that? I'll play that.

But you're wrong, the X Universe has always been about more than just war, so to get rid of war and make it solely a Railroad Tycoon game (Another Favorite Genre of mine)is to be dishonest to the X Series, it's lore and it's purpose as a sandbox game.
Taking something out because you don't like it gets people posting the opposite to you demanding why it was taken out?? And calls for it to return.
The classic case of compromise, you can have war, but you can also choose to not be a part of it too.

Don't get me wrong Skeeter, I'd LOVE for there to be MORE alternatives than just War, the more the better, right?
I'd like to run a Casino Business in space, or start a passenger transport company, or solely deal in food, medical supplies, entertainment systems, become a property mogul or run my own mining business. (Which some of those you can do already, but we want more, right?).
I want Egosoft to greatly EXPAND the Civilian Economy, so we ALL have the choice between getting rich in a War Economy or getting rich from a Civilian Economy.

As for the "big angry fleet" reason to your argument, the Main Waring Factions (The Argon Federation/Antigone Republic, Godrealm, Holy Order 'Split Famalies in Later dlc' Etc.) they do NOT attack civilian targets (unless you attack them first).
The Factions have rules to their engagement, they go solely after their enemies Defense Platforms and hit military targets like fighters, Destroyers Etc. They NEVER attack their enemies transport Freighters or any Freighters that belong to neutral Parties (Exception is the Xenon & Kha'ak).
All you have to worry about is your profits while Sectors change ownership, you're not part of the war unless you chose a side, which means you have to attack a Faction until your reputation drops below a level where they deem you a threat, stop trading with you, attack you on sight to eventually attacking everything you own.
But you can get rich without taking a side in the War between the Argon, Paranid Factions. They will leave you alone as long as you leave them alone.
The only exception is the Kha'ak and the Xenon that want to attack/destroy everything in sight; but that creates the flaw in your argument.. Getting rid of the Xenon however, because it's inconvenient for you to turtle your wealth isn't going to happen nor will a sizeable majority of this forum agree with you that the Xenon need to be more defensive and xenophobic, it's not in their nature to do that and is not Lore friendly.

Skeeter wrote:
Thu, 8. Aug 19, 15:39
Cant blame the forum folk too much tho as egosoft themselves are all over the place with the last few games which where their direction is for x games and what they actually are suppose to be. xbtf - x3 had a plot, no war but a annoying enemy sometimes, gameplay was casual. Then rebirth which had a plot but was pretty bad overall in gameplay not just bugs but features lacked alot and added ones were meh imo like 1 crap ship with 1 stupid name, 1 companion instead of multiple ones u could hire say like in kotor u could have 8 different ones with their own story, now if rebirth had that i think id enjoy the heck out of that then but nope. X4 just seems like u sit in the map mainly and u dont struggle with earning money like u did in xbtf and the game is tailored to war scripts which i dont think have been fully finished iirc.
X4 was what previous X Games were supposed to be but couldn't be due to constraints, again you're being nostalgic over a by-product that was going to be eventually removed by future machinations of the genre.
X Games by Lore are about War/Capitalism/Personal Freedom in a chaotic universe, always have been, always will be.

As for the game being too easy to make money? LOL
Every X Game has been a piece of piss to exploit for money.
I don't know how you can say that.. "X4 is the only X Game in the series where making money is easy" and with a straight face?
Sadly every X Game has that problem and it's not easy to solve or Egosoft would of done it by now.
Then there is the case that if Egosoft seriously Nerf the economy so it was the case of earning Nickels to the Dime, you would anger those that want making money to be a gradual achievement than it being a total Grindfest.
Where do you find balance in that? What rate of making money will please everyone?
Skeeter wrote:
Thu, 8. Aug 19, 15:39
Never played terran conflict or AP exp packs btw tho i have them on steam. I think this is probably where the whole active war thing and territory had started from from what i hear about what happens in em but not sure 100%.
Nothing to write home about, you had the Sectors Omicron Layrae to Heretics End changing Hands between the Terrans and the Argon, both sides would spawn a massive Fleet do battle until they reached the opposite Sector and then the other side would rinse and repeat the same strategy.. It was entirely scripted. The Terrans would fight to Omicron then crumble and the Argon Navy would push to Heretics End then crumble. It was a scripted war to make it look like there was war, but you had no control in it.
Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Sun, 11. Aug 19, 18:28
Politics has nothing to do with it, The evidence is quite real. There are young Car drivers who drive like they are in their game they have known since a young boy. Yet in reality crashing a real car has significant consequences. This same mental indoctrination can be seen through many game related attitudes amongst the young.
Young are swayed, and think killing is ok, and normal. So why weight a game to fuel that side of their thinking.
We need to be responsible. Not bullish gunghow, shoot at everything as entertainment.
X4 is a very good game, and need not be so violent,
This debate about Games encouraging violence has been around for nearly 30 years and is the "Excuse" Politicians turn to whenever there is a mass shooting that they need to deflect when put on the spot about their inactivity on the gun control issue.

And for that I explain.. Why is it that only America has this problem with Video Games causing mass shootings? Why does Japan have a Gun Homicide rate of almost "ZERO" in a place that has a massive gaming industry?
In Countries with a mix of Gun Control and regulated "Gun Ownership" have a similar low homicide rate with guns?

Because it's not games that is causing this violence, it's other factors, mental illness being one of the main reasons.
It's not a surprising knee-jerk reaction either; they said Music would "Corrupt the Youth" back in the 60's and 70's.
Hell to go back even further, Greek Philosophers like Socrates and Plato made similar arguments about censoring poetry and stories that they argued effected "Impressionable Youth".

There is a ton of research where violent computer games actually do the opposite to what they say it does, when people play out their frustrations in a game, it takes away their need to act them out in the real world.
Censoring only helps those that benefit from censorship which are generally those that are at the top and fear solutions that effect their wealth and privilege; why America will never solve the gun problem, cause the rich/politicians benefit from arms sales, so they deflect by finding a scapegoat, video games is once again getting unjustly attacked.

"Think, Trade, Build, ( Then as a last resort ) Fight."

How about Change the Slogan to.. "Please, Compliment, Bake, Play Pattycake". I wanna see THAT game!
Last edited by spankahontis on Mon, 12. Aug 19, 18:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 12. Aug 19, 18:12

I play Stellaris a lot.

In real life, I haven't commit my first planetary wide genocide, yet :P

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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by spankahontis » Mon, 12. Aug 19, 18:37

mr.WHO wrote:
Mon, 12. Aug 19, 18:12
I play Stellaris a lot.

In real life, I haven't commit my first planetary wide genocide, yet :P
It's a gateway drug!!!

Candy Crush got me shooting up on heroin.. It's how it starts!!
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Mon, 12. Aug 19, 20:11

Other reasons war can be reduced and still maintain game dynamics.

Accidents, They happen all the time. You have a pilot who falls asleep at the helm. This affords many opportunities to create damage to ships and stations.
Mechanical Failure, This again can generate many destructive situations.
An inbound asteroid, Random, unstoppable, and a catastrophe that space is well known for.
Solar Flair, rendering all in the system inoperable, and requiring maintenance, or rebuild.
Other as yet unknown anomalies that can have devastating effects on ships, stations, and temporally gate function.
An epidemic that kills off a percentage of species specific employees. Thus stopping production.
Degradation, Stations fail from bad maintenance, as can ships.
So you need to get your ship serviced.

Then there are the bills you have to pay, your station rates. Maintenance fees.
Oh ! And your family! Yes you have a family to not only support, but keep your partner happy. Now that is way harder than any war situation. ( can sort of see why war is an easy option )

I am off to war Honey, Is that the reason War is so popular. ? May be hoping your partner has been a victim on your return.

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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Brachra » Mon, 12. Aug 19, 21:34

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Mon, 12. Aug 19, 20:11
Other reasons war can be reduced and still maintain game dynamics.

Accidents, They happen all the time. You have a pilot who falls asleep at the helm. This affords many opportunities to create damage to ships and stations.
Mechanical Failure, This again can generate many destructive situations.
An inbound asteroid, Random, unstoppable, and a catastrophe that space is well known for.
Solar Flair, rendering all in the system inoperable, and requiring maintenance, or rebuild.
Other as yet unknown anomalies that can have devastating effects on ships, stations, and temporally gate function.
An epidemic that kills off a percentage of species specific employees. Thus stopping production.
Degradation, Stations fail from bad maintenance, as can ships.
So you need to get your ship serviced.

Then there are the bills you have to pay, your station rates. Maintenance fees.
Oh ! And your family! Yes you have a family to not only support, but keep your partner happy. Now that is way harder than any war situation. ( can sort of see why war is an easy option )

I am off to war Honey, Is that the reason War is so popular. ? May be hoping your partner has been a victim on your return.
The problem with your entire point is nobody once said that none of the things you mentioned shouldn't exist.
We just also want the war aspect to be functional.
as for pilots falling asleep at the helm? Lol no it doesn't afford Many opportunities to create damage. First theres Autopilot. now Bugs aside we have to assume that function works. Second we have auto parking cars and cars with Backup & Collision detectors IRL. just..just no its not a reasonable thing. The chance of that happening OFTEN is astronomical. Inbound asteroids wouldnt make since as its not like asteroids just homing-lock onto moving objects in space. maybe stationary objects sure? But stations have defense that could easily shoot missiles or lasers at said asteroids and solve the problem rather quickly. not to mention they would see it coming probably days in advance.
I don't want "Commune Utopia" simulator where the only negative challenge is natural disasters and incompetence of workers.
As of right now. in X4 i make far too much money. and nothing to spend it on. If they would fix the war aspect then i could spend it on defense. and expand my empire. If they add new features like Salaries, disasters, etc. Then i will also have another challenge. as for adding a Family & Partner to keep happy in x4? I don't really know what to say to that one....... but i'm gonna go with no. yeah...definitely no.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Tya » Tue, 13. Aug 19, 17:47

Because the economic side of the game is already fleshed out (after the whole engine parts issue and a few others are resolved).

What's NOT fleshed out is combat. Why bother hunting down enemy ships for a measly 120k when a single haul of nividium from an automated miner brings in 400k? This is a problem that only scales up as the game goes on. Other than capping ships, there's no point even installing weapons onto your ship.

In X3 you could happily shoot your way to the top. While you can do that in X4 too, it revolves around doing nothing but capping ships. Which, frankly, is dull because now all ships will bail eventually.

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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by spankahontis » Tue, 13. Aug 19, 18:31

Tya wrote:
Tue, 13. Aug 19, 17:47
Because the economic side of the game is already fleshed out (after the whole engine parts issue and a few others are resolved).

What's NOT fleshed out is combat. Why bother hunting down enemy ships for a measly 120k when a single haul of nividium from an automated miner brings in 400k? This is a problem that only scales up as the game goes on. Other than capping ships, there's no point even installing weapons onto your ship.

In X3 you could happily shoot your way to the top. While you can do that in X4 too, it revolves around doing nothing but capping ships. Which, frankly, is dull because now all ships will bail eventually.
Problem with that is Trade Stations that buy Nvidium, there is no sink for it, it's broken.
Once you fill up their storage with the Nvidium they ask for? They never ask for any more Nvidium, it just sits there doing nothing.

9/10 times you're right that they just bail, just pound their shields, wait for them to recharge and repeat, eventually it will trigger the crew to abandon ship increasing your chances that they will all abandon the ship.
1/10 chance they are stubborn and will go down with the ship.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Tue, 13. Aug 19, 19:46

Human error, ! An element that is slowly being replaced with Ai. Good some say , less accidents. And I agree. Yet to make a game void of error, leaves it dull and boring, a predictable outcome based on statistics.

I have been playing a sailing game for many years, It started out as real people controlling a virtual yacht around the globe. This showed by the tracks that were varied and very different from others.
Over the years more and more players have adopted to use computer routing software to get the best track through the live weather. This now makes the game dull boring and predictable, as all the top racers take the very same track around the globe, almost finishing within seconds of each other.

X4 is written with predictable results based on certain ingredients, I have watched some of the U tube, where some of you sit there for ages firing at a ship till it blows up. To be honest it is dull, boring, and plane predictable. Why do you do it?

The game requires human error, or alien error.
Yes auto pilot can take out the sleeping captain and get the ship safely to its destination. Boring. Why not introduce equipment failure, so odd stuff happens that you could not predict. ! most games have a patten, they are inherent, as they are bound by the programming rules. This patten once learnt by the player then renders the game boring.

To assume an inbound asteroid is easily taken out by using missiles is ok if said asteroid is small. A large Megalathon of an asteroid would bowl everything in its path. Missiles included.
This kind of introduction to the game can replace the predictable and for me the boring war side of the game.

For those who desire war, there ought to be certain sectors dedicated for you thugs to go and scrap the ?rap out of each other. Fine, But to have war all over the sectors, and those annoying reds that are quite frankly childish. Not very clever, and an insult to ones intelligence, making the game less believable, and silly.

What I am saying is it need not be war, guns and missiles that drive the game dynamics, there are may other opportunities to stimulate the game as-side from War.

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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Exsign » Tue, 13. Aug 19, 22:15

Brachra wrote:
Thu, 8. Aug 19, 21:21
build FIGHT trade think?....why does everyone act like war isnt a part of X games? the motto isnt TRADING & ECONOMY SIMULATOR.

Edit: While i do realize a huge portion of the game is trading, owning stations and building your empire and amassing insane amount of credits
it kind of makes no sense to allow me to have giant fleets of capital ships if theres nothing real to do with them.

Also, I mean cmon theres Xenon, Pirates own whole sectors (SCA) not all of the factions are allied with eachother. look at ARG and HOP... theres apparently a "War" going on between the two of them but yet after 200+ Hours in my save they are still peacefully existing next to eachother. war would be nice.
Can only second this! It is boring now after having a huge fleet and nothing to do with it, I want challenge also in war. (Just sitting back and printing more and more money, well not really fun for me if this is all.)

Also, I don’t like that the universe feels so stable, I mean there are Xenon, there are wars and still nothing major happens even after ~200h in my save. Even allied with HOP to supply them and build ships for them, still nothing noticeable… You can just peacefully trade and build your empire and once you have a fleet of 50+ Destroyer, well you won, you are an unstoppable force and can wipe the system clean. Why does no faction try to stop you? They should challenge you BEFORE you are at this point.

But for those of us who like it that peaceful and just build their empire, why not make (heavy) war a different game start? Making all the factions a bit more aggressive (maybe increasingly with time so you have time in the beginning to start?). Would totally go for that!
Additionally, me and my CPU would appreciate it very much to have less stations and ships in the universe by blowing some up in the war.

All in all the universe is too silent, peaceful and stable, thus it gets boring for me once I build my stations and ships. War needs more attention from the Devs, give it some love :D

EDIT: Also what was discussed in an different thread: there are quite a few options/ideas of how and when the AI could react smarter, but of course we don't know the limit and complexity to improve that. I am placing my believe that the Devs will do it the best way once they have the time to do so (some other things had to be addressed first).

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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by CaptainX4 » Wed, 14. Aug 19, 14:09

Exsign wrote:
Tue, 13. Aug 19, 22:15
Brachra wrote:
Thu, 8. Aug 19, 21:21
build FIGHT trade think?....why does everyone act like war isnt a part of X games? the motto isnt TRADING & ECONOMY SIMULATOR.

Edit: While i do realize a huge portion of the game is trading, owning stations and building your empire and amassing insane amount of credits
it kind of makes no sense to allow me to have giant fleets of capital ships if theres nothing real to do with them.

Also, I mean cmon theres Xenon, Pirates own whole sectors (SCA) not all of the factions are allied with eachother. look at ARG and HOP... theres apparently a "War" going on between the two of them but yet after 200+ Hours in my save they are still peacefully existing next to eachother. war would be nice.
Can only second this! It is boring now after having a huge fleet and nothing to do with it, I want challenge also in war. (Just sitting back and printing more and more money, well not really fun for me if this is all.)

Also, I don’t like that the universe feels so stable, I mean there are Xenon, there are wars and still nothing major happens even after ~200h in my save. Even allied with HOP to supply them and build ships for them, still nothing noticeable… You can just peacefully trade and build your empire and once you have a fleet of 50+ Destroyer, well you won, you are an unstoppable force and can wipe the system clean. Why does no faction try to stop you? They should challenge you BEFORE you are at this point.

But for those of us who like it that peaceful and just build their empire, why not make (heavy) war a different game start? Making all the factions a bit more aggressive (maybe increasingly with time so you have time in the beginning to start?). Would totally go for that!
Additionally, me and my CPU would appreciate it very much to have less stations and ships in the universe by blowing some up in the war.

All in all the universe is too silent, peaceful and stable, thus it gets boring for me once I build my stations and ships. War needs more attention from the Devs, give it some love :D

EDIT: Also what was discussed in an different thread: there are quite a few options/ideas of how and when the AI could react smarter, but of course we don't know the limit and complexity to improve that. I am placing my believe that the Devs will do it the best way once they have the time to do so (some other things had to be addressed first).
except war will not give any challenge to your fleets, the AI will always be too damn stupid to bring anything other than entertaining you with their stupidity itself. resources wasted on it could be used much more on basic ai behaviour and then you could just wage war on other factions as it was pretty possible in x3 and it at least worked
a war either have to be scripted from step to step like early call of duties or have a superb ai that can simulate the same... there is no middle ground or it will be boring laughable and pitiful as is in x4

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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by ScandyNav » Thu, 15. Aug 19, 00:37

Skeeter wrote:
Thu, 8. Aug 19, 15:39
Just wondering why i keep seeing topics about war this war that when the x games arnt about it really its suppose to be a open ended space adventure
Because the top level product, the end of production chain, is warships and weapons. It looks kind a dumb when all this arsenal goes nowhere. Build, to build, to build further? Really?
Did you play X3:R and X3:TC ? Which is more popular? The one, where fleets got their usage, the X3:TC. At least some usage.

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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by spankahontis » Thu, 15. Aug 19, 19:53

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Tue, 13. Aug 19, 19:46
Human error, ! An element that is slowly being replaced with Ai. Good some say , less accidents. And I agree. Yet to make a game void of error, leaves it dull and boring, a predictable outcome based on statistics.

I have been playing a sailing game for many years, It started out as real people controlling a virtual yacht around the globe. This showed by the tracks that were varied and very different from others.
Over the years more and more players have adopted to use computer routing software to get the best track through the live weather. This now makes the game dull boring and predictable, as all the top racers take the very same track around the globe, almost finishing within seconds of each other.
You're kidding, the autopilot can't even traverse around a stationary asteroid.
Creating a 'self-learning AI' able to determine your attack strategy isn't going to happen, or at least anytime soon.
I can see why people opt for Multi-player opponents, a good AI is extremely hard to come by.
Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Tue, 13. Aug 19, 19:46
X4 is written with predictable results based on certain ingredients, I have watched some of the U tube, where some of you sit there for ages firing at a ship till it blows up. To be honest it is dull, boring, and plane predictable. Why do you do it?
Question should be, why do you buy X Games? Because Dogfighting has always been a big part of the game, extremely hard to avoid conflict, whether it's War or a Xenon/Pirate skirmish.
But that's the X Series; that's what it's always been.
Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Tue, 13. Aug 19, 19:46
The game requires human error, or alien error.
Yes auto pilot can take out the sleeping captain and get the ship safely to its destination. Boring. Why not introduce equipment failure, so odd stuff happens that you could not predict. ! most games have a patten, they are inherent, as they are bound by the programming rules. This patten once learnt by the player then renders the game boring.

To assume an inbound asteroid is easily taken out by using missiles is ok if said asteroid is small. A large Megalathon of an asteroid would bowl everything in its path. Missiles included.
This kind of introduction to the game can replace the predictable and for me the boring war side of the game.
All Games have this inherent flaw. It's like Difficulty settings, all they are is Buffs and Debuffs helping the AI cheat.
AI can only operate under the rules it's given, AGI is years away and even if it was here? The power needed to operate it in condensed PC Game Format? Is there even a way??
I'm all for random events happening, but if those events get you Insta-killed or don't provide you with a means to THINK your way out of a Rabbit Hole then they will just do damage to the enjoyment of the game.
I've argued for the X4 to have randomised events, like a Meteor Shower, Solar Flare, something of that nature to spice things up.
I'm sure there can be things that could be done to bring randomness into the game, but improving an AI Pilots ability to out-think you is never going to happen.

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Tue, 13. Aug 19, 19:46
For those who desire war, there ought to be certain sectors dedicated for you thugs to go and scrap the ?rap out of each other. Fine, But to have war all over the sectors, and those annoying reds that are quite frankly childish. Not very clever, and an insult to ones intelligence, making the game less believable, and silly.

What I am saying is it need not be war, guns and missiles that drive the game dynamics, there are may other opportunities to stimulate the game as-side from War.

It's realistic, keeping with real life geo-politics. We don't get along with other Countries, so why would you assume that in the future it's all Patty-Cake?
There are limitations to the War, only the major factions are fighting each other, they wont turn on each other or the Teladi or anyone else, it's only going to be between the big 3 and the Xenon. So war isn't your only choice.
When they fix the War Mechanics eventually, one of the 3 Factions are going to lose and then the War is over. No more conflict other than Kha'ak/Xenon and Pirates. So I really can't see why it's a big deal?

A Civilian Economy on the side would be nice though for those that don't want to take part in war.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by graphicboy » Fri, 16. Aug 19, 03:00

spankahontis wrote:
Thu, 15. Aug 19, 19:53
We don't get along with other Countries, so why would you assume that in the future it's all Patty-Cake?
:lol:

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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Cabrelbeuk » Fri, 16. Aug 19, 04:12

An actual dynamic system of war and alliances like in Mount & Blade (simple but efficient) would be enough actually.

It makes every game feel different.

But i also agree than "total war" is boring. Don't have to get space battle at every corner to bring life in the galaxy.
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Re: Why is everyone wanting war in x games?

Post by Falcrack » Fri, 16. Aug 19, 06:02

If the game had a way to tell us well in advance when and where a major invasion would take place (say if we are allied with a faction), so that we could plan to be there when it starts and make a contribution, it would go a long ways towards making war more immersive and engaging.

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