Mouse lag

diode · Post by **diode** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 00:40

I'm experiencing mouse lag in all areas of the game - ie. noticeable delay between moving the mouse and the mouse pointer moving on screen. Not sure if it's the game or something with my system (other games seem to work fine in this respect), but it certainly makes X3 difficult to play.

Brief system info:
WinXP Pro (SP2)
DirectX 9.0c
AMD Athlon X2 4800+
2Gb RAM
GeForce 7800GTX SLI
Logitech G5 mouse connected via USB

Post by **CBJ** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 00:51

When it moves, does it move smoothly or in jumps? If it moves in jumps then it may simply be that your framerate is low (though obviously with your system it shouldn't be!). Have you tried running Fraps to see what performance is currently like?

diode · Post by **diode** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 01:04

It moves perfectly smoothly but there is a noticeable latency between action and reaction (so to speak).

Post by **CBJ** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 01:05

That's interesting; I've not heard of that happening before. Do you have a non-USB mouse that you could try?

Harabec Weathers · Post by **Harabec Weathers** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 01:59

CBJ wrote:That's interesting; I've not heard of that happening before. Do you have a non-USB mouse that you could try?

I'm pretty sure it's linked to the refresh rate of the screen. The way the X3 engine seems to do it, the mousedrawing is just another part of the HUD that is drawn. In other words, it calculates the change in position between frames, interpolates the position and then draws the cursor in that frame. What makes it slow is that if the time between frames is large, the positions will be extremely different, and the mouse would appear jumpy and/or slow.

It is different from the way Windows works, as Windows has a separate hardware thread that takes care of drawing the mouse position into the frame buffer directly. That's why when windows is chugging along at a snail's pace, the mouse cursor reacts smoothly to the user's command, as it is circumventing a slow software threads.

There are only a few fixes:
*Make another thread dedicated to the mouse position
*Render the scene to a texture in memory and then render the mouse using that texture that is updated at every engine 'tick'
*Midway through the 'thinking' process, cut out and re-render the entire scene (heinously inefficient, and will surely produce strange AI)

In other words, this is normal and there's not much to be done about it except wait for the 1.3 patch to increase framerates.

(CBJ, feel free correct me if I'm waaay off base here)

Post by **CBJ** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 02:05

No, you're quite right that the mouse is part of the HUD and that its movement is dependent on framerate. That's why I asked about that. But this user's problem seems to be somewhat different, with the initial movement of the mouse lagging behind but at the same time moving smoothly. This sounds like some kind of signal delay problem, but quite how that could happen I don't know.

bondservant · Post by **bondservant** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 06:38

I've had the same or a similar problem. My mouse doesn't jump around, it just "floats" past objects that I'm trying to point to, and is generally difficult to control. What gives?

I try to point to an object, and the mouse doesn't stop when I stop moving it... the icon just moves right on past, and then I have to readjust, and readjust until I finally get the stupid icon positioned over the object of interest.

Post by **CBJ** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 11:30

Is yours a USB mouse too?

MadBoris · Post by **MadBoris** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 12:40

A stab in the dark, but is there any third party mouse software that does any acceleration features, etc.

Also, as a side note, if you have a USB mouse change your sample rate from the default 100 to 200 in your PS2 mouse hardware properties. It provides for smoother USB mouse response overall by doubling the signals per second in hardware.
http://img498.imageshack.us/img498/4287 ... ate8sg.jpg
I don't know what the input buffer length does, so probably best not to mess with it.

Edit: Actually many with PS2 mice also change from the default 60 to 200 with very noticeable results, but you would be overclocking your PS2 port.

But I've never heard of anyone damaging it.

kalrus · Post by **kalrus** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 13:26

I get this too, soo your not the only one..... I use a Microsoft optical usb.
it runs smooth'er when im in a less busy system... and when in a busy system it lags and jumps..... Oh and also at energy stations... mouse lag's and jumps big time... i gues there is too much graphical stuff going on.

craigr1982 · Post by **craigr1982** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 13:53

Hey Mad Boris,

Changed the Sample rate from 100 to 200 even though I dont have lag in X3 or any other game for that matter.

Turns out I DID have lag I just never noticed it! Now it is super smooth and super responsive.

Thanks a lot.

Diode, If you havent tried it give it a go, it wont damage your system so its a win win situation.

Post by **CBJ** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 14:07

kalrus wrote:... and when in a busy system it lags and jumps..... Oh and also at energy stations... mouse lag's and jumps big time...

As I said before, if it jumps around then that is framerate-related. The original poster specifically said that that was't the problem in their case.

MadBoris · Post by **MadBoris** » Tue, 20. Dec 05, 14:14

craigr1982 wrote:Hey Mad Boris,

Changed the Sample rate from 100 to 200 even though I dont have lag in X3 or any other game for that matter.

Turns out I DID have lag I just never noticed it! Now it is super smooth and super responsive.

Thanks a lot.

Diode, If you havent tried it give it a go, it wont damage your system so its a win win situation.

Yeah, the 200 is supported by USB, back in the day when I had PS2 at 60hz and bumped it to 200hz(over 3x difference). Mouse smootheness was very noticeable in Windows as well as FPS games, it's an old tweak but a good one. It won't fix this issue people are having but it makes the mouse more responsive overall.

lif_andi · Post by **lif_andi** » Wed, 21. Dec 05, 23:30

I have the same problem, doesn´t jump around but it seems to follow my pointing it very slowly, specially difficult in combat. My framerate is pretty slow too though, I´m using the bare minimum graphic card, and when I reduce the pressure on the card the mouse moves a "little" better, but not much.

BaronDeKalb · Post by **BaronDeKalb** » Thu, 22. Dec 05, 06:05

i have noticed this mouse issue also, it's much worse in stations where
the fps is around 9 a bit better when fps is at 20. i think it's deffinately
tied to screen refresh rate. the algorhthum is just trying to smooth out
the movement and thus your mouse "floats" past your target when you
overcompensate (because it's taking too long) the lower your fps the
worse it will be.

im thinking this issue will get better when a patch that speeds up the engine
is released.

Xaffax · Post by **Xaffax** » Thu, 22. Dec 05, 21:13

lif_andi wrote:I have the same problem, doesn´t jump around but it seems to follow my pointing it very slowly, specially difficult in combat. My framerate is pretty slow too though, I´m using the bare minimum graphic card, and when I reduce the pressure on the card the mouse moves a "little" better, but not much.

I have the same problem. though a ati 256mb 9600pro should do the job.
it doesn't jump it's just slow.

RJV · Post by **RJV** » Fri, 23. Dec 05, 01:20

Hello,

I'm getting the same (I think) problem.

Whizz the mouse from left to right, and I can be on the other side of the screen before the pointer has started to move. It then catches up and whizzes along nice and smooth, but just a fraction behind me. Hard to describe really.

No game-lag to speak of, no framerate problems, no stutter particularly. Navigating (either in ship or in menu) is now almost impossible to do at speed, as I just can't say for certain where the mouse pointer is.

USB mouse by the way.

Cheers,

Rob.

Red5hark · Post by **Red5hark** » Fri, 23. Dec 05, 02:11

Am I going mad but has anyone suggested trying a bog standard PS2 mouse ? Also remove the mouse software if installed. This alone would show up a mouse driver or usb lag problem.

I have also seen this if using a wireless mouse as the batteries wear down, but its effects are also obvious in windows (obviously).

RED.

RJV · Post by **RJV** » Fri, 23. Dec 05, 08:57

Just a quick addition to this...

The mouse pointer doesn't move as far as it used to. A bit difficult to explain but you know how you get used to how far a mouse pointer moves when you physically move it? Well, it doesn't move as far now.

It's as if the game is jumping into my mouse settings and setting the speed to 'Slow' on the fast/slow slider. (As well as putting a fraction of a second delay on the movement).

Cheers,

Rob.

NebulaSniffer · Post by **NebulaSniffer** » Sat, 24. Dec 05, 04:40

Egosoft,

I just wanted to add that I am experiencing some sort of severe mouse lag problem as well. In the game my FPS is not great but it is decent.

I am running X3 Reunion with the 1.3 Patch

My System:
2.99 GHz Pentium 4 630 Hyper Threaded
ATI Radeon X600 (Budget card, I know, but honestly my FPS seems OK)

Mouse is a Razer Diamondback

I tried uninstalling the Razer Drivers and going with the default Microsoft. Same problem. What's curious is that the joystick does not exhibit the same behavior. It appears quite responsive in general. Even if you rendered the mouse at the END of your event loop, it seems it would not lag as badly as it is lagging. I honestly do not know what the problem is, but it appears to be isolated to the X3 application.

Any help / investigation would be appreciated. It seems I am not the only one having this problem.

Cheers,
NS

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