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postaldude9 · Post by **postaldude9** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 19:42

Is it possible to make a M0 class?

Post by **Xenon_Slayer** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 19:44

With a good modder, time and a good enough reason...yes.

Tsar_of_Cows · Post by **Tsar_of_Cows** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 21:10

And a model or Modeller.

Stevio · Post by **Stevio** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 21:24

Moxy who is currently working on M7 frigate at the moment said his future plans are M0's and loads of other ships and stuff check his thread
http://forum2.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=117990

DeadlyDa · Post by **DeadlyDa** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 21:27

Is it possible to make a M0 class?

Yes...but what does it do that an M1 with more weapons, or an M2 with docking doesn't do?

I mean, to what purpose would the ship be put?

I don't want to come across as being negative, and I'm not trying to be provocative...this is a serious question I'd really like answered.

I've put many custom ships into X2/X3. Building and implementing new ships is not the issue. Let's face it, we can easily dress up an M5 as the ultimate "death machine", with more weapons and shields than you can count...does that qualify it as an M0?

I have heard number of people requesting an M0. I have asked many times, but no one can explain to me why we would want one. The plot doesn't use them. The non-plot missions don't use them. The races don't use them.

If the answer to the question "what is an M0" is that it is simply a big bad ship...then I'm certainly not interested in spending my time on it. On the other hand, if it would instead serve some valid purpose, or fill some gap in the game, tell me what it is, and I'd be happy to consider building some.

Skillers · Post by **Skillers** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 21:32

Well, the M0s in the X2 plot (the Khaak mothership) were planet destroyers, with a single superlaser. It might be a ship with a lasertower-esque weapon with unlimited range and firepower, destroying multiple stations in a single hit (line them up and BOOM). Of course it would be undefended to make it far, though it's sheilds would be immense, probably 2-5 10GJ. And it would be slow. Very slow.

Maybe a unique ship you get given the chance to build if your standinmg with all races is high enough?

Well, that's my thoughts.

nuclear_eclipse · Post by **nuclear_eclipse** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 21:34

DeadlyDa wrote:If the answer to the question "what is an M0" is that it is simply a big bad ship...then I'm certainly not interested in spending my time on it. On the other hand, if it would instead serve some valid purpose, or fill some gap in the game, tell me what it is, and I'd be happy to consider building some.

*me clapping*

I think the only 'goodie' that would set an M0 apart would be the weaponry of an M2, the docking of an M1, and the station-carrying, station-building of a TL. But unfortunately, due to the limitations of the game, an M0, M1, or M2 classed ship can't buy or build stations, and a TL-classed ship won't stand a chance in OOS combat. So there's really no way of even making a proper M0 in lines of my first statement, not to mention there's really no big purpose, considering the appropriate cost of an M0 that could do all that probably wauld be more fragile than all three combined, not to mention cost at least as much as all three together...

postaldude9 · Post by **postaldude9** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 21:50

but it would be a great sector defender for argon prime for example the argon one is just a ordinary m1 and when i think M0 i think a planet destroying 20gj shield super carrier monster that not even 3 titans could take down

daidalos · Post by **daidalos** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 22:11

DeadlyDa wrote:I have heard number of people requesting an M0. I have asked many times, but no one can explain to me why we would want one. The plot doesn't use them. The non-plot missions don't use them. The races don't use them.

If the answer to the question "what is an M0" is that it is simply a big bad ship...then I'm certainly not interested in spending my time on it. On the other hand, if it would instead serve some valid purpose, or fill some gap in the game, tell me what it is, and I'd be happy to consider building some.

But that is the only reason. I like to quote this one Admiral from Star Wars. Such a big ship (here the M0, in Star Wars it´s the Death Star) is just an ultimate power. The only reason to add such a ship into the game is for fun. You can make it cost like 1,000,000,000 - 10,000,000,000 Cr.

Baleur · Post by **Baleur** » Sun, 15. Jan 06, 23:56

Why build the Titanic? Because we could.
Why build a M0 with firepower superior of a M1, docking superior of a M2, and the TL ability to load any station? Because we can..

nuclear_eclipse · Post by **nuclear_eclipse** » Mon, 16. Jan 06, 00:02

Baleur wrote:Why build the Titanic? Because we could.
Why build a M0 with firepower superior of a M1, docking superior of a M2, and the TL ability to load any station? Because we can..

Actually, as I detailed in my post, we can't. We'd have to class it as a TL, and it would get it's butt whooped in OOS combat by M1's and other TL's...

Tsar_of_Cows · Post by **Tsar_of_Cows** » Mon, 16. Jan 06, 00:07

nuclear_eclipse wrote:
Baleur wrote:Why build the Titanic? Because we could.
Why build a M0 with firepower superior of a M1, docking superior of a M2, and the TL ability to load any station? Because we can..
Actually, as I detailed in my post, we can't. We'd have to class it as a TL, and it would get it's butt whooped in OOS combat by M1's and other TL's...

Whys that?

I thought OOS math was worked out based on sheild strength and weaponry? So surely it wouldnt unless it had inferior weaponry?

nuclear_eclipse · Post by **nuclear_eclipse** » Mon, 16. Jan 06, 00:13

Tsar_of_Cows wrote:Whys that?

I thought OOS math was worked out based on sheild strength and weaponry? So surely it wouldnt unless it had inferior weaponry?

It's also based on statistical averaging based on a ship's class as well, which is why a TS with the same stats as an M3 will always lose to an M3. The extra shields would help for a little bit, but eventually, the actual M1/M2 ships will deal more damage over time than a TL can, and will come out victorious.

Jesse Bennett · Post by **Jesse Bennett** » Mon, 16. Jan 06, 00:19

I honestly don't see a point to players have an M0 ship. I understand people want to have power trips, and such, but that's just a bit much. They're interesting for plot reasons, fo course. I remember how cool it was to see the huge Xenon M0 in X - BTF, but I couldn't stand actually having one. Just too bug, too slow, and too much of a "My ship is bigger than your ship" kind of thing.

Exxodus · Post by **Exxodus** » Mon, 16. Jan 06, 00:30

@postaldude9

Check out Andras and his Exodus Fleet mod. This will step you through a story and allow you to find a ship called the Genesis. This is an MO class ship that allows you to repair/build new ships specific to his plot.
I have played the beta and have enjoyed the twist to the game. Read the plot and it will have you hooked.

He is just about done with the whole mod.

http://forum2.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=108498

Remy · Post by **Remy** » Mon, 16. Jan 06, 00:54

Why not make an M0 capable of docking M6's (about 10 sounds right) but limiting it's own firepower so you are dependant on a fleet to protect it

nuclear_eclipse · Post by **nuclear_eclipse** » Mon, 16. Jan 06, 01:02

Remy wrote:Why not make an M0 capable of docking M6's (about 10 sounds right) but limiting it's own firepower so you are dependant on a fleet to protect it

Something like that could be interesting if a capital ship could have external docking for some M6s (possibly even an M2?

) and TSs, and a rather large internal bay for fighters, could be a super-carrier of sorts used to control and move your entire fleet in one go.....

Exxodus · Post by **Exxodus** » Mon, 16. Jan 06, 01:18

Hey Nuclear_eclipse

This is what Andras did. You can dock an M6 ship named Broadsword with Genesis. Haven't tried any others yet. It has about 60 fighter bays and also has a built in AI called Sentinel that you can us to call in Genesis and it's fleet if your in a heavy fight and you don't think you will make it.

Here's what Andras wrote:

sentinel retrieves the damaged ships
looks for a safe position (hardcoded to herrons at the mo)
asks player for the derelict trader
strips all non battleworthy ships of materiel to outfit trader a bit
(including genesis itself)
and proceeds to restore it to full functionability.
earning money to finance repairs and refit.

it also starts up ecell production and does some slow repair on itself.

Omenkoshi · Post by **Omenkoshi** » Tue, 17. Jan 06, 08:53

Hmm. Uses for a M0... thinking out aloud:

One thing that bugs me about the current capital classes is that all they have is turrets, they just have more of them and can put bigger guns in them. What I'd love to see is the addition of "primary weapons", specific large weapons perhaps specific to each race, maybe. Something like the Yamato cannon

Perhaps an M0 could have a new, previously unseen kind of armament?

Or perhaps even more of a support/command ship role. Designed to be the command ship, rather than flagship of your fleet and be able to repair all other class (including capitals) in the field, as well as resupply them? Perhaps a "superjumpdrive" that would jump itself and it's entire assigned "fleet" with it (ala Homeworld) without the need for each ship to have it's own jump drive... It could become the heart of your fleet, you could use it to keep your fleet alive behind enemy lines, and losing it would be a crushing blow...

By giving it more utility, you save it from becoming an uber-m2/m1.

-XTM- · Post by **-XTM-** » Tue, 17. Jan 06, 11:33

Having a M0 imo would make just as much sense as having a M1 or M2, it's just a possibility and history clearly shows that whatever can take a shot at being the ultimate weapon or ship will be called for sooner or later.

Russians built superhuge tanks, multi turreted, the french tried as well....when WW2 ended, the battleship had been replaced by the carrier in it's fleet leading role and current carriers are again superhuge compared to those (I know I take a few shortcuts here but I'm just building an argument).

To ad to the point, there is mentioning of M0 and afaik it's also coded in the engine as a seperate class of ship.
Also, X3 is about the only SF game or creation that I know of which doesn't use huge ships in one form or another.
Babylon-5, Freespace, Starwars and such all have ship-built philosphy's based on bigger and more (not meaning better at such).

About it's role, imo it shouldn't be the ultimate Juggernaut capable of whiping out entire fleets at a glance.
The resources needed to built one would mean a gradual tech built-up towards ever thinking about owning or being able to afford one.
It would require a massive power-train and a support fleet of it's own to be able to function at all thus special factories would have to be built
to equip it properly.
If you'd picture the current development-tree of X3 as a piramid I'm merely thinking of chopping it's current top of and expanding on it a little more...giving those players with 200 factories someting to do or look out for.
Special weaponry and lots of new tech and wares would only complement.
I'd welcome further input on this.

Edit : If ES would have equipped the stock X3 with a M0 class my bet would be anyone would have taken the shipclass for granted.
Because they didn't/ran out of time or whatever, I'd only suggest to try it ourselves before cutting down the idea in it's infanacy.
The possibilities are endless, I'm sure we can figure someting out which is agreeable by most.