The best M6 is a Boron Orca???

[Gavrusik]

Whilst stuck in a the Pirate sectors above Cardinals Domain I jumped in a couple of M6s to protect me. I was piloting an M4, am not a good dog fighter and was pinned in the middle of the three sectors. The M6s lasted seconds against the opposition both in sector and OOS (I tried clearing the sector with anarchy port in to run for freedom that way. ) In desperation I jumped in a TL OOS and the ship easily dealt with 15 M3s and dozens of M4s and M5s ... Now there is not a massive difference in cost between a TL and M6 so why would you buy an M6 (other than as personal transport) . I've seen my Dragons buy it when engaging just two opponents. Yet the Orca does not seem to damage the opposition they just take one hit and are gone.

Am I missing something??

[Player.]

I believe that there was a BIG problem with balance in X3 with the M6 and TL clas ive seen many topics saying that a TL is stronger then an M6 and is absured i mean a fighter agains a huge trasport ship and the trasnport wining?

[Yellow Melos]

OOS is a calculation on ship hulls and weapons power (if i am not mistaken)

if your in sector then the caculation is done differently

[Gavrusik]

In sector the Orca was a beeched whale and died in about a minute without a single kill.. But the fact remains.. TLs are far better as OOS sector defence.

Yes this has to be addressed.

[jlehtone]

What does the Orca have? Four turrets with two APPC each? Almost the same as 9 APPC in Dragon. But how about shields? OOS, Orca is likely to win.

In sector you do need light anti-fighter weapons. Does the back-turret of Orca even work in sector?

Shields are critical OOS. With good shields you will not loose. With guns too you can even win.

In sector you really need those guns that actually hit and damage your opponents.

The price of M6 and TL is not quite the same. M6 is around 10mil, TL above 20mil.

[Gavrusik]

I think it is BHEPTs front Alpha FAA sides and APPC's rear. It never damages any ship they just disappear OOS. One wallop and it is gone. But surely with their speed and weapon loadouts and shielding they could take on anything but M2s and M1s. Thats simply wrong. I can only imagine what a Split Elephant with Beta PPCs will be like.. No I don't think the back turret works in sector. but obviously it will OOS as that is just maths.

[ceogreen]

But surely with their speed and weapon loadouts and shielding they could take on anything but M2s and M1s. Thats simply wrong.

Why is it wrong, they are the next down ship in terms of pricing from M2/M1's
Also this info is for out of sector combat where it seems a ship's laser generator is at least as important as the weapons it is equiped with (which would explain why TL's work better than M6's the M6's don't really have big weapon gens)

Given the cost to buy and upgrade a TL you can buy 2 M6's so I'd say this is fair.

[TwistedPhoenix]

Speaking of the Elephant, its less of transport ship and more of a light carrier. It can only really carry 1 large factory at a time, making building a large complex with one... drawn out. However it is capable of carrying 15 m3's. And its weapons and shields are on par with or better with any m6. So in that sense, I would expect it to fair much better than any m6 in combat.

[rizzo420]

I can only imagine what a Split Elephant with Beta PPCs will be like..

Hell, I use it IS for bigger assination missions. Jump it in and blow up the other TL in seconds with bPPC's, then launch a few fighters and switch to bHEPT's for the M6's. The speed really gives it an advantage.

[funkybadger]

quick question. i see OOS all over the place here, yet have no idea what it means?

[TehFreak]

Out of sector.

[Nanook]

But surely with their speed and weapon loadouts and shielding they could take on anything but M2s and M1s. Thats simply wrong.

Why is it wrong, they are the next down ship in terms of pricing from M2/M1's

Except that TL's are not supposed to be designed as combat ships. Their added cost is because of their cargo-carrying capacity. You don't buy a TL for it's guns, or at least you shouldn't. That's why it's wrong. Kinda like saying the Exxon Valdez should be able to take out a couple of modern destroyers.

Also this info is for out of sector combat where it seems a ship's laser generator is at least as important as the weapons it is equiped with (which would explain why TL's work better than M6's the M6's don't really have big weapon gens)

Given the cost to buy and upgrade a TL you can buy 2 M6's so I'd say this is fair.

It's only fair if both types of ship were designed to be combat ships. And as pointed out, two M6's get owned OOS, whereas a single TL doesn't. No, in X3, the M6 is the whipping boy of everyone else. There's simply no use for a ship that slow and unmaneuverable with most of its firepower pointed forward. To make them at least slightly useful, they need to have more guns in turrets and less pointing forward. The AI in particular cannot hit anything with the forward guns on an M6 due to their poor steering. But they make a nice big target for smaller, nimbler fighters and their missiles. I've flown a Centaur in combat and it sucks compared to my Nova Raider. As a player-flown ship, an M6 is a real POS, IMO.

[McPhearsom]

M6s simply don't have the firepower to be useful.

I'd save the expense and buy a TL (only 2x the cost of an M6) which will be much more useful since it can dock ships, mine asteroids, and transport cargo and stations.

You can use your TL as a mobile base until you have enough to afford an M1/M2 and unlike the M6 a TL has lots of TURRETS and can use capital ship weapons like Flak, PPCs and PBEs which are essential defence for a slow ship.

IF the M6s had more turrets and the forward guns could use larger weapons (and the reload rate was higher) then they might be useful but as they are it's just an expensive ship to lose to a group of pirates/xenon/kha'ak. The classification of the M6 seems to be either an anti-fighter role or an anti capital-ship gunboat but as it is it can't perform either task.

If you want good offense you can spend the same amount on 3 M3 Ls which combined deliver a lot more firepower than a single M6 and are faster and you're not putting all your money into a single large target. M3s even have the same number of guns and use the same type of guns as an M6.

[Gavrusik]

But surely with their speed and weapon loadouts and shielding they could take on anything but M2s and M1s. Thats simply wrong.

Why is it wrong, they are the next down ship in terms of pricing from M2/M1's
Also this info is for out of sector combat where it seems a ship's laser generator is at least as important as the weapons it is equiped with (which would explain why TL's work better than M6's the M6's don't really have big weapon gens)

Given the cost to buy and upgrade a TL you can buy 2 M6's so I'd say this is fair.

My reference is to OOS combat. It doesn't work for the TL. It is a slow turning leviathan which should struggle to hit nimble ships even with four turrets. In sector my Orca never hit an M3/4/5 once before it bought it.

I will concede that the M6 is underpowered now. There is such a huge chasm in size and maneuverability between an M3 and M6 I think alterations should be made.

BUT the fact remains the best M6 is ANY TL.

[Reptilian1]

I prefer the Boron Hydra as it is a bit faster i have been using that for a few days now and have not had any problems

[Kraznor]

I fully outfitted a Boron Hydra with AHEPTs and BPACs, cus I couldn't find any BPBE's available when I bought it (now I won't bother with the BPBE's, I reloaded and spent the cash on factories).

I couldn't believe how fast the laser energy went down, as quick if not quicker than in my mamba. I was seriously disappointed that I couldn't kill the tiny xenon swarm (10ish ships, 1 P) with a M6 that I could wtfpwn with my Nova Raider.

The M6 needs a couple of things:

1 - More maneuverability
2 - Side guns for missile defense
3 - More energy for guns, or faster recharge rate
4 - Better recharge rate on shields (cmon these things got massive generators)
5 - MUCH MUCH More maneuverability

I'm not saying it needs to be as nimble as a fighter, but it can surely be closer. Gunboats are not supposed to be sitting ducks, Carriers and Destroyers are. Gunboats are supposed to be swift and pack a nice punch.

As far as OOS patrollers, nothing short of 8-10 M3s whalloping on it should destroy a single M6 IMO. Or a hammerhead missile . But a single pirate patrol (3-4 fighters, 1-2 M3s) shouldn't stand a CHANCE vs. a M6 (assuming all AI controlled).

[craigtom]

I'm fairly content with my own hydra - in any long firefight, my Mamba Raider runs the risk of taking a nick or two from the hull if I'm slow on the strafe keys.
But with 3x125MJ shields & BPBEs (good shield shredders btw) to use before switching to the HEPTs I can toast anything short of a TL with one full salvo and still fly like a brick.

TLs are next on my list after discovering how to get easy money from the XI missions. Probably won't want to pilot the thing personally though.