Mass Drivers Why all the rave?

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Mass Drivers Useless or Useful?

Useless
13
19%
Useful
56
81%
 
Total votes: 69

Daveofthewood
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Mass Drivers Why all the rave?

Post by Daveofthewood » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 18:33

Everyone has been raving about mass drivers so i thought id give them a go and used them in a Xenon XI mission, granted they cut straight to the armor which i like, but to the guy who said "they can kill a K in a minute flat" NO THEY BLOODY CANT!!!!

It would take at least 5 mins solid and buy that time you could have got its shields down with BHEPT's and rammed the bugger, you can kill an L far quicker wiht HEPT than you can a mass driver and you can do it for free as no ammo is needed, biggest waste of money i have ever spent....well apart from that cattle ranch in Herrons Nebula :roll:
Too close for missiles, switching to guns

Akula87
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat, 23. Dec 06, 03:42

Post by Akula87 » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:19

How many M3s do you know of that can take BHEPT? Short of flying the M7 or an M6... BHEPT is not an option. I would also say that 8xAHEPT is VERY effective but you can only sustain that slightly quicker kill rate for only... 1 or 2? L's until your laser bank is drained. The mass driver can do it consistently only a wee bit slower until the ammo runs out. Granted it is expensive- when you have money to throw around and you tried every weapon in the game save GKE, the MD adds a nice new kick. Not being the guy who claimed it could take a K in a "minute flat" I can't attest to what he is using... but putting 8x MD on anything that can mount them will shread ANYTHING rather quickly...

Daveofthewood
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Post by Daveofthewood » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:36

If your after sustained fire then yes i can see the advantage but Hept's rip things apart and you only have to pull away for a second to reharge and i doesnt cost you anythin. I havent tried them in an M3 just an M6 and M7 but theres no point in using them on the heavier classes as energy banks are higher and your less likey to want to get into a dogfight with M3's if your in an M6 that is, i see MD's as the opposite of the PBE's and in see them as being even less pointless.

But having used them against capitals it takes soooooooo much longer, and i like to be able to kill things quickly and MD's would only allow me to do that with fighters, but theres probly others prefer it being an effort+ i havent ried them and khaak might be interesing to see how they react.

I guess though like you say once you've tried every weapon the MD is a bit of fresh air, dont they sound the same as the IRE?!?!? egosoft being a bit lazy there :lol:
Too close for missiles, switching to guns

synctrance
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon, 14. Aug 06, 12:17

Post by synctrance » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:36

I voted "Useful" as i cleared 2 Xenon sectors with it in my first game.

The way i fight iam always short on laser energy and MD do the job much quicker. MD is just the fastest way to clear a sector in M3.

DeadlyDarkness
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Post by DeadlyDarkness » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:38

Try the m7, that can kill a K in 10 seconds flat, and it's free (well, 5mil and a station, so about 5.4mil). I quite like using them for small nimble fighters as it gets em pretty quickly, since they have no chance avoiding the hail of projectiles. Also good for capping, since you can damage the hull before you get the shields down and then hit it very lightly until it bails.
Last edited by DeadlyDarkness on Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:40, edited 1 time in total.

synctrance
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Post by synctrance » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:40

In 1.4 there was no m7, so M3 with MD was the only reasonable way for someone without M2.

Akula87
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat, 23. Dec 06, 03:42

Post by Akula87 » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:42

*sold M7*.... dosen't it get boring? That and the M3+s? Having the "I-win button" in a game where the AI already sucks takes even MORE fun out of it, no?

Daveofthewood
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Post by Daveofthewood » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:45

But it takes ages!!! i was peppering tha k for near on 4minutes before it went boom, maybe im not appreciateive enough as my ive always used corvettes and destoryers to tag the capitals, when i restart i'll give the MD's another go in an M3.
Too close for missiles, switching to guns

synctrance
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon, 14. Aug 06, 12:17

Post by synctrance » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:54

Akula87 wrote:*sold M7*.... dosen't it get boring? That and the M3+s? Having the "I-win button" in a game where the AI already sucks takes even MORE fun out of it, no?
Well, i think it adds more variation to a game. If someone couldn't accomplish something in M3 they might be able in M3+, so why not.

If DeadlyDarkness sais you can kill K with M7 in 10 sec, i would take it instead of M3 with MD just to get my fighting rep up. Its all good if you dont have own destroyer.

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Carlo the Curious
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Post by Carlo the Curious » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:57

They're extremely useful for taking out troublesome Khaak capships early on in the game. An Argon Nova (or similar) with 8xMD can kill a KM1 or KM2 in very little time.

I don't usually fly anything bigger than an M3+ so I can't really comment on M6 or higher usage. I believe some people like them on an M7 for clearing out vast numbers of fighters though.

humility925
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Post by humility925 » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 19:59

But if A.I use mass driver againt you, it's wasn't funny. I rather to have A.I have Hept shooting at me then they shoot at me with thier mass driver, if they shoot you with mass driver, it's near game over for you, but at least it's rare in X-3 2.02, watch out spits m3 plug.

Nyax
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Post by Nyax » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 20:05

I must vote useless. It's the Ammo factor. Much like missiles, Early in the game spending money on Ammo is something of a waste of cash. There are far more pressing needs for it. Then later in the game when you can happily afford the ammo, you can also happily afford better means of killing.

Added to that is that many other weapons do the job pretty much as well, and yet have no running costs, then you can see why i don't use them.

Akula87
Posts: 435
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Post by Akula87 » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 20:14

Variation? Or super ownage weapon? Once you get a ship where you can win any engagement with no sweat and no concentration the game stays entertaining for only so much longer... the whole point is constantly building up your resources to get that better weapon's platform so you CAN win... but when you get it early on in the game.... and when it is better to M6s in ALL respects and better than M2s/M1s in MANY respects, it takes away from that achievment and you have no where to go once your on top in the very begining. NOW, if NPC ships flew the M7 or the M3+ regularly it would make it at least a challenge. Now I can hear people saying "ow, well the M7 is a prototype!" - that's not the point! This isn't real life! The game is played because it s fun. Without a challenge ( you have the only M7) the game is no longer fun, at least IMHO. Sure getting your combat rank up quicly is fun... but is it meant to be attained so quickly? Or is it something that you work for so when you CAN obtain those higher paying missions it will mean MORE then JUST a greater sum of cash? Allowing the player to get such great ships for relativily free (well, the BEST craft, buyable or not) Egosoft has done a foolish move IMO. The costumer will now put the product down sooner as the game has gotten boring sooner rather than having him WORK for his achievments. The best time I had in this game was frantically flying all over the X-verse trying to do missions to go from 1 million to 7 million for that new Dragon! (Even though when I got it- it was a let-down). At least let advanced players further along in the game who already have massive fleets get the M7- THAT would add variation.
*EDIT*- I only wrote to not to tell other people not to use these ships, but to rationalize why I don't so people don't think I am completely mad :lol:

synctrance
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Post by synctrance » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 20:45

Thats the best part of "variation", its up to player whats to do with the ship :wink: If someone thinks it spoils the game he wouldnt touch it and will stick to the means whatever he thinks are rightful.

I certainly dont mind M7. Its my second game, i've done all kind of fighting in my previous one, so this M7 variation i dont mind. Whatever gets me there quicker.

Surprisingly there are no rants about BBS donations, apparently there is nothing wrong with having own M2 on 4th game day (what used to be 15-20 days).

Switch 9
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Post by Switch 9 » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 21:29

Akula87 wrote:save GKE,
But the only thing that mounts GKEs is the Kha'ak cap ships? Can you cap thm?

Akula87
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Joined: Sat, 23. Dec 06, 03:42

Post by Akula87 » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 23:12

Nope. That's why you can't use them. As for the BBS donations... who can dish out 200+ million on their 2nd day JUST to get to the rank where you CAN buy the ship? AND THEN add ANOTHER 100+ million to buy the ship it self and THEN make sure the race you buy the cap weapons actually carries them OR you would ALSO need to donate another few dozen million to get to the point where you CAN buy such things as GPPC/ A/BFAA and so forth? So unless you script in the cash... I don't really see it happening :lol:
P.S.- the capital letters are supposed to be italics but I am too lazy lol

Lancefighter
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Post by Lancefighter » Thu, 26. Apr 07, 23:19

Umm. From what i understand, 50 mill is MORE than enough to get you REALLY high when donating stuff.

Akula87
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Joined: Sat, 23. Dec 06, 03:42

Post by Akula87 » Fri, 27. Apr 07, 00:57

Nope. It takes more the higher you go up in ranks... for instance I donted over ~100- 115 million to go from two levels below the Argon rank to buy caps... to just 1-2% to that level. Maybe at the bottom of the chart you can increase with just 50 million- but not near the top.

Dragoongfa
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Post by Dragoongfa » Fri, 27. Apr 07, 02:42

Mass drivers are very useful, you want my combat example you can have it:

Lone Buster Vanguard

Armed with:
2 APACs
2 BIREs
2 Mass Drivers

Enemy pirate force consisting:
3 Falcons (1 vanguard armed APSG)
1 Nova
5 M4 (3 busters 2 Buzzards)
3 M5 (all Harriers)

Going through hatikvah's faith, i see a 3 M5 patrol, decide to attack it, destroyed the first one only with energy weapons, the other two start taking sorties on me, what to do? Cuted down their speed with mass driver bursts and took them out with IREs.Right then a PSG shock wane starts, i quickly manage to get out of it and when i turn i see 3 falcons and 3 busters, i quickly target the only falcon that fires that PSG using only my mass drivers i manage to destroy it quick enough.I see that my shields are low, but those busters are faster than me, using short bursts i dropped their speed, enough so i can outrun them.
I managed to get some distance from them and my shields are recharging, i see that a nova with 2 buzzards is on intercept course, i make a quick mass driver sortie against the nova slowing it down to 60.I turn my attention on the buzzards, i quickly dispatch one with laser fire, the other one bailed at around 70% hull.Meanwhile the 2 falcons and the busters catched up, my energy is low so i am using mass drivers only, i destroy a buster, and then using only my IREs dropped down the shields on an other one that bailed right after that.When i destroyed the last buster i was left alone with 3 M3s, 2 falcons and 1 crippled but dangerous nova.I decide to take both falcons out simultaneously, using only the laser on one and the Mass drivers on the other, the one marked with the lasers bailed at 40%, the other went boom.
Finally with only the slow nova remaining i went into the sortie tactic against it (that rear AHEPT was SLOW), it went down fast enough...

This battle was over in about 14 minutes, if i had not armed my buster with mass drivers then i would most probably have seen "THE END" again.

Winnings:About a million credits in salvaged equipment (missiles) and ships...
Cost: 7 mass driver ammo...

EDIT:The cost for the ammo can easily be covered even by mosquito missiles (salvaged ones).

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Fri, 27. Apr 07, 11:56

Using Roguey's data:

Hull of K: 324,000; MD damage per bullet: 15
=>
21,600 bullets kill the K

Rate of fire: 741 rounds per minute. 5928 rounds per minute with 8 guns.
=>
21.600 bullets in 3 minutes 38 seconds.

Some of us have longer Mizuras than others. :wink:

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