X3 Vs Freespace 2 ... *Sound and Gameplay*

[Sugz]

so after playing Freespace 2, i diverted over to X3 recently, its good, very immersive but the sheer lack of sounds is quite disturbing, lets use Freespace as en example.
In Freespace, as you increase your throttle, you can hear the roar of your engines increase and when you hit the afterburner, wow, your engines suddenly release an all mighty Crackle then a high pitched wirrrl, until you finally run out of power.
In freespace, your weapons sound like they pack the punch.
In freespace, you hear your hull being ripped to pieces, as well as your shield taking hits.
In Freespace, when you are near a larger vessel, you can hear the power emulating from its engines.

Freespace, Your ship moves like a fighter, whereas the one in X3 feel very static


X3 is a marvelous Game no doubt about it, but i feel that in some aspects when compared to Freespace, its lacks immersion, excitement and the feeling that you are flying in or near to Very powerfull pieces of equipment

[Magirus]

I haven't played Freespace yet, so I can't really through a comparison. But one thing to keep in mind, Space is a vacuum, so is there really sound in space.

Magirus

[esd]

It's not exactly a fair comparison, as Freespace doesn't have a dynamic economy, persistant anything, and everything is mission based.

Bear in mind, I'm a Freespace2 online veteran with a serious amount of winning matches to my (and my wingman, lightspeed's) name. I was there when PXO closed it's doors.
Here's my biggest problem with what you've said:

Freespace, Your ship moves like a fighter, whereas the one in X3 feel very static

In Freespace, you're flying on rails, just like in previous X-Games. There's very little Newtonian physics in the game. You get a little drift, but not much.

Freespace 2 is the pinnacle of combat space games, none have surpassed it. But it is simply concentrating on one gameplay aspect - combat. X does so much more.

[Xmortis]

Freespace 2 is one of my all time favorites.. though I would never compare it to X. Freespace 2 is more or less a linear plot shooter, following such games as Wing Commander (but MUCH better).

The X game is a space simulator... a universe builder. Put in simpler terms. The genre each game targets is notably different. Not to mention the pace of gameplay. Frespace was adrenaline filled trigger pounding action. X has some of that, but it has a major 'plan and build' component.

Though.. now that you reminded me of Freespace 2.. I may just pull out my old CD of the game and give it a go . It was a darn fun game

[esd]

Though.. now that you reminded me of Freespace 2.. I may just pull out my old CD of the game and give it a go . It was a darn fun game

I wish I could, but my dying GPU has taken exception to it. Along with the Torque Game Engine editor, GalCiv2, The Moon Project and a whole host of other games

[Sugz]

Hi all thanks for the Feedback, no the physics are great in X3, but lets use another example, in X3 you Roll Left right, and Pitch and yaw up adn down, but theres no sence of moving a body inspace, i mean its just Move up or down very much like some sort of camera. whereas in freespace, homeworld, and others alike, there is no *this is very hard to describe* sortoff after movement, eg a slight movement until you stop.. as i said it is very difficult to describe, im a veteran of many Interstella and Earth-bound flight sims, and i dont know the Pitch,yaw, roll and strafe feel very mechanical and well stiff. What about the sound Aspects i mentioned.. ?

Oh and im well aware of the physical properties of Space, but i feel we shouldnt sacrafice Realism for immersion and Excitement.

[Ebyl Vampyre]

Are you talking about drift? There is plenty of drift in X3. Get yourself a fast ship, head close to an asteroid at full speed, then try to turn sharply away from it at the last instant. You'll see just how much drift there is right before you hit it.

[Orion JMD]

I understand and very much appreciate your point. I played both Freespace 1 & 2 and they were both very good games. Freespace 2 has long been considered a classic.
It was one of the first space, or flying combat games at I recall where wing men / women were actually very usable and mattered.

But in retrospect I now personally feel that the Freespace games were a bit more Flash Gordon / Star Wars while X 3, with certain liberties, is a more realistic presentation of the isolation one might experience in deep space with no one to else to depend upon but yourselfand therefore overall more immersive experience.

Freespace fighters did have more of a fighter feel, but would a space fighter craft really feel or respond the way we think a fighter would respond if there was no atmosphere to fly through?

Also the sheer depth of X3 and all the options you can utilize is amazing. It really conveys the feeling of being in control.

Best

JMD

[esd]

in X3 you Roll Left right, and Pitch and yaw up adn down, but theres no sence of moving a body inspace, i mean its just Move up or down very much like some sort of camera. whereas in freespace, homeworld, and others alike, there is no *this is very hard to describe* sortoff after movement, eg a slight movement until you stop

Newtonian drift. There's almost none of that in Freespace 1/2. There's quite a bit in X³.

Oh and im well aware of the physical properties of Space, but i feel we shouldnt sacrafice Realism for immersion and Excitement.

If you want realism, go play Orbiter (it's free!). After playing that, the chances are very high that you'll never ask for realism in space games again. Someone once said to me the Orbiter FAQ is the only FAQ to ever make them cry.

[NavyAICS]

Are you talking about drift? There is plenty of drift in X3. Get yourself a fast ship, head close to an asteroid at full speed, then try to turn sharply away from it at the last instant. You'll see just how much drift there is right before you hit it.

I know this to be true. I wasn't paying attention to where I was going at full speed and NOT on autopilot while dealing with one of my traders. BAM! Head first right into an asteroid. Not one chance in #$!! to get out of it.

To add to what Sugz said about sound... I hate to admit it but I do kind of agree. I recently gave up playing Dark Star One (after the story it was WAY LAME!) but the sounds of the missiles launching and the guns firing was completely AWESOME! The bigger the missile the more deep rumbling sound came out as you fired it and the explosion were wicked cool.

But no matter what - I came running back to X3 simply because it kept my interest and I'm willing to sacrifice some cool game sounds for the immenseness and expandability of X3.

-NavyAICS.

[Mightysword]

Freespace 2 is the pinnacle of combat space games, none have surpassed it. But it is simply concentrating on one gameplay aspect - combat. X does so much more.

Well, I have a comment on both of this. I think the reason FS2 is the pinnacle of space combat game is not because of its fly mechanic, actually the fly mechanic is pretty simple almost arcade style movement. What makes it so good is the story, the epic, and especially the atmosphere. The fly mechanic is simple, but you can "feel" the battles. One of a very few games ... in fact, probably the only one that can create intensity between ship to ship, battleship to battleship and ship to battleship combat. Think about it, the core fly mechanic between FS2 and Tachyon The Fringe are down right simple they're almost the same, but FS2 creates the battle and atmosphere a hell lot better.

If you want realism, go play Orbiter (it's free!). After playing that, the chances are very high that you'll never ask for realism in space games again. Someone once said to me the Orbiter FAQ is the only FAQ to ever make them cry.

As for realistic space combat ... heh, may I recommend Independence War II? I don't play Orbiter so I don't know, but if there is a game that can use Newton physic in space more then IWII, then the developer of that game gotta be nut , or a Physicist turns game maker

[pjknibbs]

Freespace 2 is the pinnacle of combat space games, none have surpassed it.

I'd actually have to disagree with Freespace 2 being the pinnacle of space combat games, because I think Tie Fighter (which came out in 1994 or thereabouts!) was superior in most respects. Sure, the graphics weren't as good and you didn't have cap ships firing MASSIVE beam cannon at each other, but I felt it had a much greater variety of mission types than FS2 did--for example, there was never a mission in FS2 where you had to protect a bunch of crates while they were hauled aboard a transport, or one where your target was launching from a distant space station and you had to absolutely flog your engines to get there in time to intercept--which meant, given the power balancing in the game, that your shields and lasers were nearly discharged, making actually taking him down really tricky!

[Mightysword]

I'd actually have to disagree with Freespace 2 being the pinnacle of space combat games, because I think Tie Fighter (which came out in 1994 or thereabouts!) was superior in most respects. Sure, the graphics weren't as good and you didn't have cap ships firing MASSIVE beam cannon at each other, but I felt it had a much greater variety of mission types than FS2 did--for example, there was never a mission in FS2 where you had to protect a bunch of crates while they were hauled aboard a transport,

Well, they're still protection missions right and I think in this regard FS2 has a much more variety. You do have to protect crates on one mission when they're transporting, and if my memory is correct FS1 actually has a lot of those. Then your protection mission can range from protecting a slow, powerless convoys, to an installation, to a defenseless cruiser or to a huge destroyer - one thing I love about FS2 is that when you have to protect a battleship, it feels like you ARE protecting a battleship, not just an oversize transport. In most other game while protecting a battleship I feel like my fighter is actually the battleship, not the one I'm trying to protect (think Battlestar Galactica on the Xbox if you played it).

or one where your target was launching from a distant space station and you had to absolutely flog your engines to get there in time to intercept--which meant, given the power balancing in the game, that your shields and lasers were nearly discharged, making actually taking him down really tricky!

While not required to complete the missions I think if you play on hard and want to accomplish some of the bonus objective, you'll find yourself managing your power supply a lot, I know I did.

[pjknibbs]

I suppose the reason I believe that way is that I can still remember a number of cool moments from TIE Fighter (and from its predecessor, X-Wing) even after a decade or more, whereas there aren't really any moments from FS2 that stick in my memory in the same way, despite it being a more recent game. OK, X-Wing and TIE Fighter both had the advantage of being Star Wars games and thus memorable in themselves, but then, so was X-Wing Alliance and I don't really remember much from that--other than the totally non-existent sense of speed when flying the Millennium Falcon through the guts of the second Death Star in the final mission!

[testpilot_bg]

What about the sound Aspects i mentioned.. ?

The sounds of Freespace 1&2 are pretty good, because it is an action space simulator and mission based game. Well, you can feel much more of the spirit of a space battle with so many sounds: explosions, breiefings, dying commrades screaming in your comm systems etc. That`s one of the aspects for a good action game ... to feel that surounding environment is pretty much "alive".
In X-3 there is lack of sounds in space endeed. Everyone knows that there are no sounds in the vacuum, but this is a game and I hope there will be plenty of them in the next Egosoft simulator game.

In freespace, your weapons sound like they pack the punch.
In freespace, you hear your hull being ripped to pieces, as well as your shield taking hits.
In Freespace, when you are near a larger vessel, you can hear the power emulating from its engines.

In X 3 they sound fine for me.
I agree.
In X 3 it`s the same, even louder.

I'd actually have to disagree with Freespace 2 being the pinnacle of space combat games

Everyone has the right of a bad opinion.

[Jimmy Jazz]

TIE Fighter was a great game. It had cool missions with primary and secondary goals, a great variety of different tasks and a very simple to use but fun energy control system. But what I remember best is the immersion through the mission related com chatter. Don't remember whether it was actually spoken text but it gave this great feeling of being there.

And wingmen really mattered since the ships you were flying most of the time didn't have any shields which often lead to a quick death.

I guess I should never touch TIE Fighter again so that I don't destroy my fond memories.

[Paranoid66]

I think the OP has a point. We all know the sounds have to be simulated by your on board computer. however their is no reason why this couldn't be improved. Sounds in X3 are OK but they don't make you sit up and listen. Maybe ES likes it that way as they maybe prefer to promote X as a little less frivilous superficial than more combat orientated competition, I don't know!

As to drift I also have to agree. Yes in a fast fighter you do drift in the way others have mentioned but this is only really noticable when going pretty fast and doing something stupid IMO.

However the actual controls do seem - I don't know too precise - unless they are over prtimised! It is something I have been struggling with from the offset I just wasn't sure how to describe it. In some games you do tend to keep moving for a brief instant if you whack the stick really hard then go to make a sudden change of direction. In fact big stick movements is often not recommended.

I wouldn't want to see full on realism but if you try something drastic and severe it should feel that you are straining the ships control systems. A bit of drift a few creaks and moans from the superstructure whine from the engines that sort of thing would be very nice indeed!

As to game comparisons largely this is a waste of time except for helping to illustrate individual features you might like to see. You can't really judge one game against another if they have radical differences in gameplay and features.

[destyre]

I have to admit I've been thinking about the two games and how they compare. I realise that X3 offers more than just combat, but considering that freespace 2 is 8 years old in a business where 8 months is even a long time, there is really no excuse for Freespace to be more exciting space combat wise. Strafe engines are excellent in X3 as well as a number of other things, but the overall feel of combat (at least in my opinion) isn't quite as immersive or instinctive.

Did I mention that missles are a hell of a lot better in Freespace? (as in they actually have a chance of hitting your opponent without being easily shot down/outrun by "victims" that aren't even trying to do so?) Missles are a mere annoyance in x3, dont actually do much damage if they hit anyway, which in itself is a miracle.

Also the sounds and music are much better, even to this day in Freespace. The music is far more dramatic, the guns actually sound really nasty and powerful.

Last but not least, wingmen (although pathetic) are easy to command in battle. In X3, its a nightmare

[Paranoid66]

Still to be fair ES have a lot wider ground to cover than just tweaking the combat and feel of the fighter craft. As to sound and X3 a lot seems to have been imported from X2. I think a lot of the weaker parts of X3 are the result of its mismatched expansion to full game genesis.

If it had all been from scratch just retaining the background then every single part of the game would have garnered the same degree of attention although the developments cost would no doubt have been higher. Instead some parts seem just to have been ported over and xpanded rather than being reinvented. This reduced the overall quality and integration of the final product. After all items are often judged by their weakest components! While not new is VERY OLD in the computer and software business.

I have said this before discounting the economics of which I know nothing but am sure played a major role, ES would have been better IMO putting out The Return and then taking a breather and doing X3 all new and shiny with everything fully integrated rather than thrashing together something that was destined to include ill fitting old ideas, code, text sound files, video clips etc!

I am hoping this is what they are now planning to do release an xpansion? for X3 [in which they can try some stuff out] then go to work on X4? with a fully fresh new approach from the ground up.

Still I know nothing which is why I am free to speculate.

[Anubis_xian]

I'd actually have to disagree with Freespace 2 being the pinnacle of space combat games, because I think Tie Fighter (which came out in 1994 or thereabouts!) was superior in most respects. Sure, the graphics weren't as good and you didn't have cap ships firing MASSIVE beam cannon at each other, but I felt it had a much greater variety of mission types than FS2 did--for example, there was never a mission in FS2 where you had to protect a bunch of crates while they were hauled aboard a transport, or one where your target was launching from a distant space station and you had to absolutely flog your engines to get there in time to intercept--which meant, given the power balancing in the game, that your shields and lasers were nearly discharged, making actually taking him down really tricky!

Actually, FS/FS2 had a pretty hardcore homebrew mission fanbase, as I recall. The actual missions in the game itself were very bland, to put it mildly. However, the inclusion of the mission editor (a great piece of software) enhanced the ability of fans to make their own missions without requiring any extensive programming knowledge. I even made a few.

Somebody should mod some Shivans into X3... even though they operate very similarly to the Khaak (jump in, kill everything that isn't their species, leave) the design of the Shivan ships was simply awesome.