[X3, Vanilla] My First Space Fuel L Complex Loop

Deflatted · Post by **Deflatted** » Sun, 30. Dec 07, 21:37

I made a space fuel complex loop last night and it just seems like maybe I went about it the wrong way. I'm thinking about reloading and just buying the energy and having 1x Wheat Farm L. The complex I made cost me 30mil credits plus the hauler's pay, so it wasn't cheap (for a person just starting out).

1xSilicon Mine L (64 yield roid) (Also this mine is has plenty of silicon left over for other factories that require silicon)
2xSolar Power Plant M
2xCrystal Fab M
2xCahoona Bakery M
2xCattle Ranch M
3xWheat Farm M
1xSpace Fuel Distillery L

I know it's an odd setup but once it was all connected all I had to do was put in 2k of energy cells and the entire complex came to life (it was cool watching everything start up). Are large complexes like these just more than what's needed or is it better to make large loops?

I browsed through the forums and it seems people are on both sides. some prefer to just buy the energy cells, and others prefer to have more efficient complexes. Just keeping two Solar Power Plant M's running requires a lot of other support stations, so I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle of high efficiency loops. Also, I tried that guide in the sticky but my complex still turned out looking like spaghetti

maphys · Post by **maphys** » Sun, 30. Dec 07, 22:06

Loops are great in area with low energy supply but TBH I think that for fuel and weed unless you are in a dangerous sector it is a lot easy to buy the e-cells. I use closed loops when making weapons and other useful things because I like it that way, it feels more reliable, but for simple profits it is easier and better to build 3-4 small (Wheat+Fuel) complexes than a single closed loop one. NB: In my opinion. The open manufactories make less but the ratio of profit to overhead on a closed loop is painful! Plus ther eare not that many prime asteroids unless you use the scripts like Buy Asteroid. You need to run the closed loops a long time to breakeven and I don't find this useful for stations I only use for money. All my closed loops are fabs I need to survive the coming storm (when I finally start taking over the universe).

M

Deflatted · Post by **Deflatted** » Sun, 30. Dec 07, 22:16

Yeah I was thinking it was a bit much for just 1 space fuel distillery. It cost 30 mil to build and the profit was a mere 300-500k/hr. It was my first complex and I eventually want to start building 25,125MG shield factories to help supply my fleet once I get one. Those facilities seem a lot more complex than just a space fuel loop though. The loop I made for just one space fuel depot was huge, both in size and the amount of stations it require. I can't imagine what the higher tech things are going to be like

maphys · Post by **maphys** » Sun, 30. Dec 07, 22:36

My last high tech stations:
2 x Silicon Mine L
2 x Solar Power Plant L
6 x Crystal Fab M
4 x Cattle Ranch L
4 x Cahoona Bakery L
1 x Ore Mine L
2 x Beta PAC Forge S
2 x Chip plant S
2 x Alpha HEPT Forge S

2 x Silicon Mine L
2 x Solar Power Plant L
6 x Crystal Fab M
4 x Cattle Ranch L
4 x Cahoona Bakery L
1 x Ore Mine L
2 x Shield Prod. Facility 125 MJ S
1 x Wasp Missile Factory S
3 x Chip plant S
2 x Gamma PPC Forge S
1 x Wheat Farm L
1 x Rimes Factory M

So not that bad! Although I was damn glad to clear this complex out of the sector (a script that pushes it to the edge of the sector to improve the local frame rate).

Loops need to be monsters or they are hardly worth building! It is painful to spend a couple of hundred million and realise that you are doing all this to produce one or two factories worth of stuff for no future costs.

M

Skyblade · Post by **Skyblade** » Sun, 30. Dec 07, 22:42

Elena's fortune

1xsilicone mine L on a 64 yield asteroid
6xcrystal fab m
3x cahoona bakery L
3x cattle ranch l
3x wheat farms L
3x space fuel distillery's L
1x spp XL
this one generates good amount of credits it has all ready paid for itself and bought a similar space weed complex and a gppc complex wit 8 gppc forges
and helped buy my titan
the gppc complex bought my colossus and is now helping to arm my titan

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sun, 30. Dec 07, 23:52

Personally I would wait until you have your own TL before attempting complexes. That way you can simplify things massively by getting the right stations--for instance, you could jump in a Wheat Farm L rather than having to buy three Ms from Argon Prime because you can't wait forever for the AI TL to make the trip! 30 million would easily get you a TL, so I'd spend the money on one of those, THEN start worrying about getting the money together to build a complex.

Incidentally, I ran 2x Spacefuel L + 2x Wheat Farm L for a while in Elena's Fortune, then later added all the extra stations required to make it self-sufficient; just felt like doing that, didn't really have a reason to!

decnartne · Post by **decnartne** » Sun, 30. Dec 07, 23:58

Elena's Fortune is a great location for booze complexes - I've also read many posts that let on that pretty much *any* sector is good for *selling* booze (some sectors better than others for resources, of course)...

For grins I started with 1L booze complexes in Elena's Fortune as trading weapons and the occasional XT and XI missions (at my then combat level) lent themselves well to financing endeavors in the ~ 16M range (the price for a 1L complex

)

After 4 (haha) of those, generating ~ 1M an hour (combined) and a *really* lucrative XI mission I decided to fire up the Complex Calculator for a 5L booze complex. I built:

1 SPP XL (Boron)
5 Crystal Fabs (Boron)
2 Bofu L (Boron)
2 Bio Gas L (Boron)
1 Silcon Mine 64Y (Boron)
5 Wheat Farm L (Argon)
5 Space Fuel L (Argon)

for a cool ~ 72M credits...

They'll break even about 3 game days after start-up after which, pure profit with absolutely Zero intervention (the *true* beauty and worth for building booze and/or weed complexes - IMHO). With the sell price at 727 (avg - 1), the bootleggers can't get enough. I don't care who it is, but *someone's* partying like it's 1999...

and as pjknibbs wrote - using my own TL was *crucial*, if nothing else, to my sanity...

nurotc · Post by **nurotc** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 01:36

I've played two different X3 games and haven't ventured into illegal wares, but have read how good of money makers they can be. I thought I'd give a complex a whirl.

I own two L 64 yield silicone ore mines in Ore Belt that are currently unattached. I've come up with the following:

Argon Space Fuel Distillery L 2
Argon Wheat Farm M 5
Argon Silicon Mine L 1 64
Argon Solar Power Plant XL 1
Argon Crystal Fab M 5
Argon Cahoona Bakery L 2
Argon Cattle Ranch L 2

Is there any advantage to using one races crystal fabs and food farms over another?

xavierd · Post by **xavierd** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 02:20

nurotc wrote:Is there any advantage to using one races crystal fabs and food farms over another?

iirc the boron stations are cheaper, but as long as each crystal fab has a supply of it's race's food then there's no difference.

incidentally, has anyone made an XL SPP complex with one of each race's fabs/farms/processors?

Deflatted · Post by **Deflatted** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 03:30

pjknibbs wrote:Personally I would wait until you have your own TL before attempting complexes. That way you can simplify things massively by getting the right stations--for instance, you could jump in a Wheat Farm L rather than having to buy three Ms from Argon Prime because you can't wait forever for the AI TL to make the trip! 30 million would easily get you a TL, so I'd spend the money on one of those, THEN start worrying about getting the money together to build a complex.

Incidentally, I ran 2x Spacefuel L + 2x Wheat Farm L for a while in Elena's Fortune, then later added all the extra stations required to make it self-sufficient; just felt like doing that, didn't really have a reason to!

Yeah I took your advice: I bought a Mammoth instead. I made a new complex: 3x Fuel Distillery L and 3x Wheat Farm L. I have a fully upgrade Dolphin Super Freighter keeping it filled. Only spent ~17mil on this and I'm making more credits per hour

Also I've been looking for the factory that makes Space Weed but have come on bad luck. Can anyone hint what the name is, or even just the race that sells it?

Kor'ah · Post by **Kor'ah** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 03:37

I tend to go with far larger booze/weed operations now. Instead of trying to put everything in one complex I break it up into three complexes.

-First is a closed loop Silicon mineing operation in EF.

-Second is the SSP complex in The Wall.

-Third is the Booze/Weed (6x of each pluss base resource factories) in PE.

To move the resources around I use CLS1 TS ships. Doesn't need highly trained pilots since all three complexes are very close to eachother. The big long term problem is spending 3M credits an hour.

decnartne · Post by **decnartne** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 03:42

The Teladi Bliss Place manufactures Spaceweed. It uses Swamp Plant manufactured by Teladi Dream Farm

nurotc · Post by **nurotc** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 05:36

TY xavierd.

I ran it on the calculator and it came up with same efficiency but lower initial cost and of course, a quicker ROI.

Wish I'd have asked before I popped my posting cherry and before I did my other two SPP loops...

Carlo the Curious · Post by **Carlo the Curious** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 05:57

Also note that Teladi mines are the cheapest.

Deflatted · Post by **Deflatted** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 06:20

Well I have another 30+ mil complex (this one ran me about 34mil).

It started off as this:
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3755 ... sfdei4.jpg

and ended up as this:
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5084 ... sfdqz0.jpg

I'm almost bringing in 1 million credits per hour with this complex. I might just keep adding more to see how much it takes to saturate the market with alcohol. Oh where or where will the bubble burst.

Yeah yeah my complex isn't perfect. If you want it to look better you can make it yourself

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 10:09

maphys wrote:Loops need to be monsters or they are hardly worth building! It is painful to spend a couple of hundred million and realise that you are doing all this to produce one or two factories worth of stuff for no future costs.

And if the product is high tech you have to ask yourself how to sell. Selling PPC manually is no fun, and a monster would make you sell a lot. In that sense Spacefuel is easy.

But why would Elena be a good spot for distillery? Fuel sells everywhere just the same, and fuel needs no Ore. Elena has some Ore, enough for maybe 38 weapon forges. For 4 billions one can surely make a small loop out of Ore Belt and Elena's Fortune to churn out 246 aIRE per cycle.

For Fuel&Weed perhaps some other system with only Silicon deposits?

Besides, Elena is said to have rubble. Bunny estimated it would take three weeks from 50 collectors to remove all the dust. And Distilleries need clean environment, don't they?

maphys · Post by **maphys** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 10:25

And if the product is high tech you have to ask yourself how to sell. Selling PPC manually is no fun, and a monster would make you sell a lot. In that sense Spacefuel is easy.

Aye, monster loops are only really that useful for stuff you have to make anyway. They are the background independent infrastructure to any self-contained empire! A CAG on top of one of these is great as it sells the excess but most of my closed loops are supplying about 50% of their produce straight to either my HQ or another weapons dump.

As I said, the only reason (other than 'I can') I tend to make them is to make sure that when the X-universe is slowly fading embers one faction will still have the ability to make warships!!

M

Kor'ah · Post by **Kor'ah** » Mon, 31. Dec 07, 19:23

If you want to try something different that still rakes in the cash.

6x Chip plant
4x Quantum Tube
4x Computer plant
6x Drone factiries
4x Advanced sat
3x Nav sat
3x Crystal Fab M

Spred out the factories to target food markets of choise. Set the jump range to 33, leave prices at avg and give it a 10M credit starting float.

Now all that's needed is three max level CAGs configured like this. Best to also have ASats watching some of the hotter systems so the CAGs will avoid them more-or-less.

CAG 1 - Seller only in a fast TS ship. All resources locked out,
CAG 2 - Buyer only in a Superfreighter TS. All products locked.
CAG 3 - Buy/sell to back up the other two in a Hauler type TS. Nothing locked.

Pulls in around 2.1M - 2.3M credits profit per hour selling the end product at avrage. Since CAGs with full access to all of X do a pretty good job at selling at above avrage when possible the profit margin will be higher.

Big enough market in X to support two of these thanks nearly all the trade stations buying something produced by the complex. UTs get stuck in that annoying low profit loop less often. Steady race reputation allways comming in. Game economy won't grind to a stop late in a game. More fun to see in action than the classic booze/weed.

The total cost, includeing the three TS and 10M starting float, is around 125M. About 50M less than a closed loop booze/weed operation that pulls in the same credits.

Same general thing can be done with IREs, 1/5MJ sheilds, wasp missiles, mass driver ammo and maybe APACs. Those are easy to sell to NPC EQ docks but the market is smaller and more static. That means less money to be made. Still an option if your game is overflowing with 50 credit ore.

Last game I built this complex (slightly smaller than listed) it cleared 750M credits in profit in it's 12 days of operation. Really have to target the right food markets but most games normaly are drowning in two of them, so pick your factories wisely.

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[X3, Vanilla] My First Space Fuel L Complex Loop

[X3, Vanilla] My First Space Fuel L Complex Loop