How do I buy Avarice (need to make lots of money quick!)

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How do I buy Avarice (need to make lots of money quick!)

Post by perkint » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 07:02

Hi,

I know it's not a new question, but I couldn't find much from the last year (or specifics in the guide stickies), so I thought I'd ask again!

I am nearly 5 game days in and have 20(ish) UTs building me some cash. Thing is, I am still 600M short on the price I need for Avarice!

So - how do I make the cash?

Do I rely on the UTs (yeah, they're good, but 600M in 3 days?) or should I buy stations? If stations, what's the best?

SPP in the unkown sector by Light of Heart?
SPP complex in same unknown?
Or a Space Fuel Distillery?

Come on folks - help me start my galaxy domination with my own sector :D

Cheers,

Tim

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Post by pjknibbs » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 08:23

Why 3 days? You seem to be under the impression that the Avarice auction will end on game day 8, which is not the case. You have until at least day 15 (and possibly even day 20) to make your money.

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Post by NitroX » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 08:46

Buy a python or get the Hyperion, outfit the python with GPPCs in front and Flaks every where else, or outfit the Hyperion with GPSGs and attack Xenon capital ships. It takes a bit to get the hang of it, especially in the Hyperion, but when you blow it up you stand a good shot at getting them to drop PPCs and other weapons. I have blown up several Xenon K/Js that left easily 10million in weapons sitting around. Today I went out and got 120 million (UTs trading in the background while I fight) and I didnt spend that much time actually playing to do it (O-Chem doesnt study itself :( )

Good luck.

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Post by wathman00 » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 09:38

this has come up a few times recently, in addition to the above suggestions, Xenon Invasion missions get you cash quickly and will net you in the millions when you are able to kill the majority of the ships. This also contributes to fight rank, and gets you to the more lucrative assassinations which are my personal favorite.

As for factories, booze/weed complexes will rake in the dough as long as you set selling price 1 below avg. depending on how large of an operation you build, it may take 4 days to break even with a credit earnings of about 1mil/hr. (I believe that's how long mine took, 5x space fuel L Distilleries)

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Post by Lyth » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 14:35

What are your current funds?

If all you have is 4mill mobile mine to compliment UT's for more would be my suggestion as there are no overheads.

Don't build the distillery without a wheat farm connected to it of the same size, you'll find you have 10k+ wheat but never any energy or vice versa and energy is cheaper and more efficient to buy at the start. a 10x10 complex at the start will get you off the ground.

My druggie complex just got trashed but I do intend to rebuild it, not bad for generating money but the worst for race reputation gains and they will always lure pirates into the same sector. Great when it's freighters as you can kill them then have a TS take the resources they just bought back to your hub and resell it. :)

-Bad when its Falcons/Nova's/Buzzards/Raiders and your not IS to do something.

I've seen the calcs myself and energy is the best resource to sell but that's a supply and demand thing, unless you can supply all the crystals and inturn have the complete loop you'll never get stinking rich unless you can afford 20+ of them but then you'll force crystal prices sky high.

- Alternatively if your still in the buster or at the start goto a place thats a pirate highway and cap/kill pirates till you can afford something nice then do the Xenon missions. A few cap'd Nova's in good condition will make you a healthy profit. Best way to compliment your factories but I've not had chance yet in my current game.

^Just my opinion, not an expert.
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Post by perkint » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 15:29

pjknibbs wrote:Why 3 days? You seem to be under the impression that the Avarice auction will end on game day 8, which is not the case. You have until at least day 15 (and possibly even day 20) to make your money.
OK - I was under that impression. Thought I'd read it on here somewhere. I obviously misunderstood or maybe someone had posted it in error (more likely I misunderstood :roll: )

Brilliant - plenty of time, then :D

I've got around 30M at the mo. Enough for a SPP complex, and by the time I've built it, I should have enough cash to stick a super freighter on "Sell for best price".

I do the XI and assasination missions, plus sit in Brennan's Truimph occasionally. I pick off the pirates and the pirate lasertowers pick off any trader trying to run the north/south path. Gives me loads to pick up. I have three mercury tankers just collecting and then off seling :twisted: And, of course, lots of cap's!

I also have a freighter which I manually send round laser & shield plants. Find a laser plant with A, B & G lasers all full - pocket about a million in one trade run :D

I'm just not confident that they will bring me in the credits quick enough to buy Avarice. A little less concerned now pjknibbs has pointed out the deadline is more like ten days away, but still not convinced. Picking up a million here and a few million there is not reliable. I want something that will bring in hundreds of millions! If that's another 10 UTs, 10 stations/complexes or Xenon Sector clearances (and selling pick ups) - fine.

Just after speculation/advice. Are 20 UTs likely to make 600M in 10 days? If not, what other cash cows can I create & milk? :D

Cheers.

Tim

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Post by Whuppee » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 19:50

My 20 UTs pulled in roughly 50 million as of my last game day.

A few of them aren't max levelled yet, and I've been increasingly doing quick ware ejections / restarts when they attempt awful trades.. so I expect that they might be able to pull in a bit more in the coming days.


As to factories, I don't know how accurate the numbers are in practice.. but you might take a look at the factory page of Merroc's complex calculator. Specifically in regard to the factory cost / projected average daily profit.

Might give you some idea of how long they'd take to pay themselves off, as well as a rough projection of how much they'd pull in over the next 10 game days.


XIs are a great use of your time.

And whenever you're not doing XIs, I'd suggest working some Xenon sectors. It shouldn't be at all uncommon to pull in ~20m+ from a K.
Last edited by Whuppee on Tue, 23. Aug 22, 15:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by leebee » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 21:29

Yip Eeeeeeeeeeee

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Post by Nanook » Mon, 11. Feb 08, 21:38

perkint wrote:...
OK - I was under that impression. Thought I'd read it on here somewhere. I obviously misunderstood or maybe someone had posted it in error (more likely I misunderstood :roll: )...
Gameday 5: First mentions of an auction and what's currently being bid.
Gameday 10: Auction reaches 600 million, and the player is first invited to bid 615 million.
Gameday 20-25(?): Auction ends if the player hasn't bid. The reason for the (?) is that I've personally seen it out to 25 when I refused to bid. The end may be somewhat random past 20 days. But I think 20 is the lower limit.
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Post by perkint » Tue, 12. Feb 08, 01:46

Yeah - thanks, but I want to do it without resorting to scripting.
Nanook wrote:Gameday 5: First mentions of an auction and what's currently being bid.
Gameday 10: Auction reaches 600 million, and the player is first invited to bid 615 million.
Gameday 20-25(?): Auction ends if the player hasn't bid. The reason for the (?) is that I've personally seen it out to 25 when I refused to bid. The end may be somewhat random past 20 days. But I think 20 is the lower limit.
Thanks for the details. So long as I stay on the ball, should be able to make it OK :)

Just seen a BBS message saying a sector is probably going to be auctioned...
Whuppee wrote:My 20 UTs pulled in roughly 50 million as of my last game day.

A few of them aren't max levelled yet, and I've been increasingly 'managing' their moronic trades (1 mosquito, etc) via a quick ware ejection / restart.. so I expect that they might be able to pull in a bit more in the coming days.
I don't tend to keep that close an eye on them. But I have made about 40M more since posting this, in less than a game day. So I don't need to ramp up the rate much more. Let the rest of my UTs get up to 25 (range from one at 10 to half a dozen already at 25), add a few more (25/30 seems to be max that really works) and I think I'll do the SPP. Not sure if I'll do it as a complex or not yet, but even if I have to micro manage it, it should be a money spinner.

Whuppee wrote:As to factories, I don't know how accurate the numbers are in practice.. but you might take a look at the factory page of Merroc's complex calculator. Specifically in regard to the factory cost / projected average daily profit.

Might give you some idea of how long they'd take to pay themselves off, as well as a rough projection of how much they'd pull in over the next 10 game days.
Yeah, I've been looking at the calculators. My question was really about where & what would make the money in the game, rather than in theory. Just because you build a PPC forge doesn't mean anyone will buy. I know you can sell some things to equipment docks, but I was just wondering if there was a simple cash cow station that didn't need much supervision.
Whuppee wrote:XIs are a great use of your time.

And whenever you're not doing XIs, I'd suggest working some Xenon sectors. It shouldn't be at all uncommon to pull in ~20m+ from a K.
Yeah I always check for the XI's. If I've not had one for a while, I'll hunt round the suspect sectors until I find it.

Not gone hunting in a Xenon sector yet. Only running the one fighter ATM and that's my nice capped Eclipse - thank you kind Split weapons trader :twisted:

Blasted though a few times, but not taken on anything bigger than a P due to the number of other ships around.

I'm still a little wary about investing in any bigger ships rather than stations. I'm not confident of turning that into much more of a return than I get with the M3+ :? How many K's are there that I'm gonna be able to pick a fight with, without there being so much support I get my ass handed to me?

I suppose that could just be me being a coward. Never actually bought or flown anything bigger than a TL...

:oops:

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Post by Nanook » Tue, 12. Feb 08, 01:53

perkint wrote:....
I'm still a little wary about investing in any bigger ships rather than stations. I'm not confident of turning that into much more of a return than I get with the M3+ :? How many K's are there that I'm gonna be able to pick a fight with, without there being so much support I get my ass handed to me?

I suppose that could just be me being a coward. Never actually bought or flown anything bigger than a TL...

:oops:
I guess you haven't done the Bala Gi missions** yet. When you get a chance, do them. Then you get a great ship to go bashing Xenon in. It's how I got 500 million in three days the one time I decided to get Avarice. :D


**You'll need to own a station to be offered the missions, along with a few other requirements. Sounds like you don't have one yet. Check the Bala Gi sticky for more details. :wink:
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Post by Whuppee » Tue, 12. Feb 08, 02:27

perkint wrote:I don't tend to keep that close an eye on them. But I have made about 40M more since posting this, in less than a game day. So I don't need to ramp up the rate much more. Let the rest of my UTs get up to 25 (range from one at 10 to half a dozen already at 25), add a few more (25/30 seems to be max that really works) and I think I'll do the SPP. Not sure if I'll do it as a complex or not yet, but even if I have to micro manage it, it should be a money spinner.
Yeah.. I don't know that I'll care to maintain the level of vigilance I have been, especially with the mention that I may have a bit longer than I thought I did. Was thinking I only had til day 15, which.. having been near broke on day 8 after getting my 20 UTs setup nicely.. didn't leave me with the impression that I could afford to tolerate much slacking.
perkint wrote:Yeah, I've been looking at the calculators. My question was really about where & what would make the money in the game, rather than in theory. Just because you build a PPC forge doesn't mean anyone will buy. I know you can sell some things to equipment docks, but I was just wondering if there was a simple cash cow station that didn't need much supervision.
I thought that might have been your intent. Sorry to say, I don't have nearly enough experience with placement to be much of a help there.

And weapons aren't exactly a problem to get rid of, but I understand your point. I meant that the profit values seem to consider selling at average prices, so a well placed station in an unsaturated market might pull in a bit more.. and probably won't do too much worse.

Was mostly helpful to me for running numbers like.. if I spent 80m on this one complex, how many days.. roughly.. would it take to pay for itself?

While the difference between selling for average and max can surely bias that by a lot, when I am (or thought I was) dealing with less than 6 days, anything around that mark was too long of a payoff on my investment.
perkint wrote:I'm still a little wary about investing in any bigger ships rather than stations. I'm not confident of turning that into much more of a return than I get with the M3+ :? How many K's are there that I'm gonna be able to pick a fight with, without there being so much support I get my ass handed to me?
As Nanook mentioned, especially since it doesn't seem you'll be too horribly pressed for time, you may want to look into the Bala Gi missions. They have several nice rewards.

While I would expect that a good many here would tell you that a good M2 will easily pay for itself, the fact is that the Bala Gi reward is quite capable and doesn't require much investment at all.

I've only recently discovered the awesome that the Xenon sectors are, so I can't say a whole lot on the topic of finding unguarded Ks. I've only seen one that was completely unguarded.

Once you learn how to lure one far enough away from the rest, you'll only have to deal with its escort.. which, from what I've seen, is generally made up of around 4 Ms, 3 Ls, and 1 LX.

So far I don't believe I've seen more than 4 Ks in a sector, and I recently discovered one with 6 Js (no drops from them yet).. but, at least given my current capabilities.. I can't consistently kill them, counting all the flight time / ware retrieval, faster than they respawn.

Unless you can outrange them (with an M2 or similar), you'll probably have to take some hits. My current best is taking a K while only sustaining ~200MJ of shield damage. I don't believe you can get that in anything less than an M6, and I can't say I'd recommend that until you've had some practice =P


Just save before you head in, then reload as necessary to get a good feel for the experience.

Also: I would suggest either sneaking a freighter into the sector beforehand, leaving it someplace safe, and then leading the Ks toward it... or fighting them relatively close to a gate.

My first kill dropped more weapons than I've seen from any of them since... and every single one of those crates timed out / self destructed while my freighter was taking its sweet time flying from the gate to them.

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Post by perkint » Tue, 12. Feb 08, 04:04

Whuppee wrote:And weapons aren't exactly a problem to get rid of, but I understand your point. I meant that the profit values seem to consider selling at average prices, so a well placed station in an unsaturated market might pull in a bit more.. and probably won't do too much worse.
I might have a play with some sort of weapons complex. More expensice to set up, but you can shift all the stock always to EDs (yeah - OK I might be changing my mind on that one...)
Whuppee wrote:As Nanook mentioned, especially since it doesn't seem you'll be too horribly pressed for time, you may want to look into the Bala Gi missions. They have several nice rewards.
Well, if I get a station, that's the only requirement I don't meet for Bala Gi so I might play them a bit. The M7 does sound cool :D And (I understand) you actually get an M6 as well?
Whuppee wrote:Once you learn how to lure one far enough away from the rest, you'll only have to deal with its escort.. which, from what I've seen, is generally made up of around 4 Ms, 3 Ls, and 1 LX.
If I could get one with that escort, that would be reasonable in the Eclipse. The few times I've played in the Xenon sectors they all seem to come hunting for me. That's one thing that was easier (and worse, realistically) in earlier versions. They didn't use to hold formation. If you ran, you would always be able to separate the ships - the fast ones would catch you and you could waste them easy. Then wait for the M4's, then the M3's and then you'd have your target with no escort :twisted:
Whuppee wrote:Unless you can outrange them (with an M2 or similar), you'll probably have to take some hits. My current best is taking a K while only sustaining ~200MJ of shield damage. I don't believe you can get that in anything less than an M6, and I can't say I'd recommend that until you've had some practice =P
Well I can take a K unaided during the XI just using my eclipse, but I'm not sure if they have the full load out.
Whuppee wrote:My first kill dropped more weapons than I've seen from any of them since... and every single one of those crates timed out / self destructed while my freighter was taking its sweet time flying from the gate to them.
Now that would be annoying!

I think, buy a station (or maybe weapon complex), set it running and then play the Bala Gi. I may store a save game from before that, tho ;)

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Post by Whuppee » Tue, 12. Feb 08, 06:23

perkint wrote:Well, if I get a station, that's the only requirement I don't meet for Bala Gi so I might play them a bit. The M7 does sound cool :D And (I understand) you actually get an M6 as well?
Yep.
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A (Paranid?) Nemesis, which I'd suggest flying for the last few kilometers of that leg of the mission..
perkint wrote:If I could get one with that escort, that would be reasonable in the Eclipse. The few times I've played in the Xenon sectors they all seem to come hunting for me. That's one thing that was easier (and worse, realistically) in earlier versions. They didn't use to hold formation. If you ran, you would always be able to separate the ships - the fast ones would catch you and you could waste them easy. Then wait for the M4's, then the M3's and then you'd have your target with no escort :twisted:
Well, the K/Js do seem to detect you somewhere around the 25km mark, so you could certainly end up attracting a lot of them depending on where you're at in the sector. You'll probably figure out how to split them up, though. And absent that, we'll be around to offer up some pointers :P
perkint wrote:Well I can take a K unaided during the XI just using my eclipse, but I'm not sure if they have the full load out.
I'll leave that for you to ascertain :)
perkint wrote:Now that would be annoying!
Oh, it was :cry:

The elation of killing my first super-toaster overridden by watching my material reward going up in smoke.

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My cash cow.

Post by Lyth » Thu, 14. Feb 08, 17:01

I finally managed to build my station without being attacked, took me a few hours but was worth it. All thanks to Merroc and the guys behind the Factory complex calculator. It cost alot to setup but with a few Xenon missions, good caps I had enough credits just before the roll over into day 5.
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Location: The wall, central to all my supplies if I need to make extra money cags will sell to pirate bases locally at extra profit. It's also a huge empty space with no additional elements to slow down FPS.

Argon 20 Space Fuel Distillery L
Argon 20 Wheat Farm L
Teladi 20 Dream farm L
Teladi 20 Bliss Place L
Argon 8 Solar Power Plant XL
Argon 17 Cattle Ranch L
Argon 17 Cahoona Bakery L
Argon 42 Crystal Fab M

Argon 3 Silicon Mine L 64 - Ore Belt & Elena's Fortune.
Argon 1 Silicon Mine L 56 - Ore Belt.
Argon 1 Silicon Mine L 43 - Herrons Nebula.

20 Mobile Miners set to supply silicon. (Home of Light & Antigones Memorial)

Cost = 638mill creds : Output 250mill creds per day.

NB: Use the tow to group together aload of the 23 silicon asteroids in ore belt and make yourself a large silicon distributor if you want to save on the Mobile miners, I probably will do later.

My Brewery & Bud complex has no Cags attached, I just supplied it with a few thousand crystals and let it run from their. Each Mine has a single CLS collecting energy from the Brewery and depositing silicon wafers.

In my game I had to fork out on 2 wings of Nova's for sector defence as my mines/freighters kept getting trashed. If you plan to be afk it's a good idea especially around the complex itself as pirates will start hoarding around the Space Weed/Fuel. I've a Centaur and Nemesis for that.

Almost forgot, Have a super frieghter collecting wares in my complex sector with an Eclipse protecting it, not a bad way of getting free/recycled goods. Just a shame when you kill them before they'd had a chance to buy from you.
Now I just need to turn Antigone into my own personal weapon & shield place but as you can see it is achievable to afford Avarice without the need of any factories aslong as you go on a full war footing. I'm trying to not do that this time but had to make sacrifices to my plan due to the fact half the NPC Race stations have been blown up, for some reason all the Crystal fabs in AP have been replaced with Quantum Tube factories so needed serious funds to rebuild things properly. I have bigger plans than making money so this is just the means to an end for me, hope it helps.

No, I'm not using any UT's. Tried and failed a few times with atleast half of them always being destroyed regardless of where I put them.
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Post by Madeiner » Thu, 14. Feb 08, 17:50

I only have 1 whetfarm/space fuel complex, but my CAGS only seem to sell 16 or 32 at a time, which is definately too slow.
Especially since they could be hauling 8000 teladianum or 20k ecells...

Maybe its because i've set pirates to "foe"? But if i dont, my CAGs go boom too easily

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Post by Lyth » Thu, 14. Feb 08, 17:57

Cags should be set to No on setup list as player as foe above so thats right unless selling illegal goods but I think your getting confusef.

I sell at 700/2900 respectively, I've set wheat to max price and sell only in the adjust box. This should stop your cags selling/buying it.
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Fuel and Weed is bought by everyone including your own workers. If you have a police licence sit outside and scan everything that leaves. Expect to generate alot of pirate ships though. If you turn off all trade it is still bought aslong as you have workers that require a food product.

It doesn't need any cags in this respect unless you want to sell at 1200+ prices but you have to weigh the risk/rewards. I chose not too as cags would always try to buy wares I didn't require unless I spent alot of time configuring them. May do later. I'm lazy and have other plans atm.

Guy that started the thread was after a complex/setup that required zero maintenance. That's what this is. Bit of a beardie way to make money and there are far more profitable ways, just so happened in my game I was roadblocked so took this option instead and sharing the info.
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Re: My cash cow.

Post by perkint » Fri, 15. Feb 08, 00:19

Lyth wrote:I finally managed to build my station without being attacked, took me a few hours but was worth it....
Daaamn! That's one hell of a complex!! Did you build it by hand, or using a script?

Little bit out of my league ATM. Only got 150M to play with. I think I'll go for the XL SPP complex. Not the most profitable, but still profitable.

Once that's set up, do the Bala Gi missions and get the M7. Then just go hunting, big time :twisted:

The SPP will sit there earning me cash, even if not the fastest in the world. Once I've got Avarice, time restrictions are remobed, so the rest can be done at any rate.

Cheers.

Tim

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Post by Lyth » Fri, 15. Feb 08, 01:01

By hand, pure vanilla game.

Without the mistakes it would probably have only taken 2 hours but I kept misplacing stations and forgetting to resupply my orca with energy.

With 2 mammoths and a bit of paper to scribble down which was your last location its not that hard. I used neither :(
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Post by perkint » Fri, 15. Feb 08, 01:35

Lyth wrote:By hand, pure vanilla game.

With 2 mammoths and a bit of paper to scribble down which was your last location its not that hard. I used neither :(
I'm using my Elephant. Not used to building complexs so on quite a learning curve. Just gonna put the hub under the SPP and then build up. From first attempt, looks like it'll work OK :)

Tim

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