my first xenon invasion experience & tactics question

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xyzzy
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my first xenon invasion experience & tactics question

Post by xyzzy » Sat, 29. Mar 08, 21:57

I've been playing X3 for probably more than 6 months (on and off, not continuous) and I'd never seen one before. Today for the first time I saw one on a BBS in Nathan's Keep, so I took it. I didn't know anything about them before this.

The text told me to go to a Paranid Shipyard, which I did, and I got a message that a supporting fleet would be along shortly and I should get ready to jump to Xenon 534. I was flying an Argon MM6. So I stocked up on e-cells and missiles, and waited around. My first point of confusion: I saw some Paranid invasion ships gather, and then they started to jump out. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to jump too or wait for another message telling me to go. I decided to jump with them, so I jumped to 534, and boom, I ended up in the middle of some paranid M2 after the jump. Ok, reload and try again :)

I jumped again after the reload and that went OK. While preparing I had jumped my fleet to the N gate of Getsu Fune. This fleet was 3 M2 Titans with 9GJ / 24 GPPC each, plus BPPC and assorted other weapons. Each Titan is escorted by an M8 Custodian shield frigate. The M8's have 4xAPPC and some AFLAK and APBE for anti fighter screens. I didn't take any of my M3 ships because I didn't want them all dying to Xenon FLAK.

After I got to 534 in the MM6, three K's started to chase me. I killed their escorts with guns and missiles, and managed to kill the 3 Ks by myself in the MM6, which I was happy about. However, it seems that no matter how many Titans I put on the task, I cannot trust the AI to kill a single K using my whole fleet! I set all 3 of my Titans and their escorts on a lone K, thinking that 3xM2 + 3xM8 would be enough to get a kill without losing any of my ships. Guess again! One of my Titans cheerfully flew directly into withering GPPC fire without seeming very inclined to try to move or dodge it. Only his front guns could fire on the K at the time, so he didn't damage it much. He died within seconds, before his tactical retreat could even jump him out.

I had a similar experience later on. I was soloing a K with the MM6, and got it down to zero shields and about 25% hull. I figured my Titans could mop it up from there, which they did, but I dang near lost another Titan in the process. The K beat one of my other Titans to within 10% of total shield loss before it died, and that was with 2x Titans starting at full strength, and the K starting pretty well thrashed after I'd beat it up with my MM6!

There were some other K's and J's in the sector. I guess there were a total of around 6-8 K's and about that many J's. When I was just killing the last of the J's and mopping up some fighters, I got a message that there were too many losses to the invasion fleet and I'd failed the mission :(

My biggest problem is that I can kill a K using a ship I'm flying, but not using any of my AI ships, even if I put 6 of them on a single K. It seems like my M2's like to fly around 6 Km from each other, which means one of them comes into range of the K long before the others can get there, and he dies very quickly even with 9 GJ shielding. I can't seem to get all my M2's to beat on the same K at once. I wish capital ships fights took longer! Right now once the GPPC fire starts coming in, you've only got about 30 seconds before the ship is going to die - even less if its taking fire from several ships at once. I've seen capships die in under 10 seconds. So there just isn't time for nearby friendly ships to get in range, even if they're only a few Km from being in range already. I think I'd prefer to have *all* weapons toned down to about 1/5 of their current damage, so both dogfights and capital ships fights took longer.

Because of that problem, it seems like in the future I should not bother with an AI fleet and just try to solo the whole sector myself - but I'm not sure I could do it fast enough to pass the mission (and I'm an old-fart gamer so I don't have super fast reactions any more myself, either).

I did manage to collect 12 GPPCs, 3 BFLAK, and some other lesser weapons for my effort though.

I want to try another one now, but since it took me 6 months to find the first one, who knows how long it'll be before I see another :)

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Sat, 29. Mar 08, 22:19

Fine and dandy, but this "Xenon Invasion" sounds like a mission from some modded game rather than the vanilla. And if so, then this belongs to the gameplay forum of that mod. :|

xyzzy
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Post by xyzzy » Sat, 29. Mar 08, 22:22

XI missions are not in the vanilla game? I didn't know that :) I'd seen other references to them on these forums so I just kind of assumed it was a vanilla game thing.

*Edit* anyway the questions about how to get several of my ships to attack another one at the same time would still apply to vanilla I guess.

Rapier
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Post by Rapier » Sat, 29. Mar 08, 22:29

Xenon Invasion missions are in the vanilla game, but this isn't one of those. In the XI mission, the xenon are the ones doing the invading, this seems to be the reverse.
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xyzzy
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Post by xyzzy » Sat, 29. Mar 08, 22:37

Rapier wrote:Xenon Invasion missions are in the vanilla game, but this isn't one of those. In the XI mission, the xenon are the ones doing the invading, this seems to be the reverse.
I see... I'd kept reading about "Xenon Invasions" and had assumed that what I found was the same thing. Guess not :)

I'm still curious about ways to get several of my capital ships to all attack an enemy at the same time though. When they attack one by one, they always seem to die.

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Sat, 29. Mar 08, 22:40

xyzzy wrote:*Edit* anyway the questions about how to get several of my ships to attack another one at the same time would still apply to vanilla I guess.
Big ships spend time on collision avoidance. Way too much time. And they have no fixed guns. (So they could be on 100% missile mode with Wasps. Great distraction.) What their turrets do is what they do. But OOS is different story.

But how about a bomber squad? M6 ships with Typhoons. Group HotKeys of Group Management System (included in the Bonuspack) do have "Group fire missile". One tap of key and every ship in the group launches a missile. That is available in vanilla too.
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xyzzy
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Post by xyzzy » Sat, 29. Mar 08, 23:11

I could probably do M6s + Typhoons - in fact, with that approach again I could do it with a single ship probably and not even need the wingmen. Just need a big enough supply of Typhoons :D

Mostly I wanted to use the M2's because it seemed like it'd be cooler that way. I've had good luck with them when fighting smaller classes of ships, but against their own kind, they don't fare as well.

I think you're right and it's a collision bubble problem. They like to be pretty far from each other, which is good so they don't run into each other, but not so good if you want more than one of them to attack a target at once.

*EDIT* It also occurs to me due to the info above that I *still* haven't found a "real" Xenon Invasion mission from the vanilla game. Not sure what I'm doing wrong there... would like to try one sometime though.

dminor
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Post by dminor » Sat, 29. Mar 08, 23:49

Try the BBS's around the Xenon sectors. Scale Plate Green works well for me. And I think they happen every 12 hours.




Dean

xyzzy
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Post by xyzzy » Sun, 30. Mar 08, 00:15

Ok, I'll try that. I've stopped at quite a few stations in Scale Plate Green, but so far haven't seen one... but I'll make a more serious search of it and see if I can find one.

xyzzy
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Post by xyzzy » Sun, 30. Mar 08, 01:44

Funnily enough, I still couldn't find anything in S.P.G, but I was poking around in Menelaus' Paradise and found one of the vanilla game Xenon Invasions. As Rapier says, it was Xenons invading a Boron sector, not vice versa.

It was fun, and around 100X easier than whatever other XI mission I had done before :D

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Sun, 30. Mar 08, 07:42

xyzzy wrote:Funnily enough, I still couldn't find anything in S.P.G, but I was poking around in Menelaus' Paradise and found one of the vanilla game Xenon Invasions.
No mystery in that. There are six sectors that the vanilla mission "invades". Mission picks next target randomly from those six, and then it waits until you find it. Apparently you had not visited any station in Boron sector within 3 sector indices from X597 for a while, because they all have been ready to show the Menelaus event (until you finally took the mission).

(The latest vanilla XI that I've done were in: 18b, 18b, BHS, BHS, GF, BHS, SPG, TA, BHS, BHS, MP, 18b, GF, 18b, SPG, SPG.)
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