The Wasp Nest

[Tritous]

Generally in X3 I've always disregarded missiles as expensive and ineffective but recently have taken new consideration. While an afterburner and laying a firestorm on a lead ship makes for a grand entry, and while thunderbolt and tempests have actually impressed me for raw power once shields are down, I've recently rediscovered the wasp missle.

After being convinced that it is more effective than I thought for shutting up m5s, I have just had the fun of taking down an m1 without it even thinking about firing at me. After using up 100 very cheap wasp missiles to distract it, I sat there stationary firing at it while it sat confused at what to shoot at.

It also has to be said that it's doubly entertaining with the xtended mod since the missile trails look great buzzing around your target like flies (or at least like wasps).

I'm starting to consider a question at this point: Which is more effective: the use of 80-90 wasp missiles to distract your target while your main weapons fight, or the use of 30ish typhoon missiles to more directly take out that cap ship in your way. There is a definate price advantage to wasps, similar use of space, but is there likely to be more risk?

[Nanook]

Missiles have all sorts of uses, limited only by your imagination. You've touched on a few good ones. As for Wasps, I find lots of uses for them. They're excellent for distracting that Pirate Nova rear turret when you're in a Buster, for example. Recently, I took down two Kha'ak destroyers with my MD-equipped Mamba, using a combination of Wasps and fighter drones to distract it while I climbed in its back door.

Typhoons can be good at taking out capital ships at a distance, but you need at least an M6 to launch them. Firestorm/Hammerhead bombing runs are fun, used them recently on a couple of K's in an XI mission, but you really need an afterburner to escape the blast radius, otherwise if you fire from too far out, the target's weapons will probably destroy your missiles.

Tempests and Thunderbolts are good for eliminating the M and L escorts of Xenon cap ships when you're 'harvesting' their weapons in a Xenon sector. T-bolts have a 90 km range, and Tempests retarget if their initial target is destroyed. I also like to use T-bolts to help kill the L's in an XI mission. Drop the shields with my PBE's and fire a missile to finish it off. Saves a lot on laser energy, and kills the target before an NPC 'helper' can steal the kill.

So in answer to your poll, I don't really have an opinion on which is more effective, since it really depends on the situation. I've used all of the examples to good effect at one time or another. Missiles are definitely fun.

[Tritous]

pretty good answer still

I suppose they are the good accompaniment to PBEs, but I generally find HEPTs just have more umpth

Thing is, I have XTM and I find the missile ranges massively less than stats suggest as they rarely take a direct route (especially swarms). The firing speed of wasps is what makes them my favourite though. You can pelt them out faster than most lasers . Also, their low power and their small blast means if they get shot down right on firing, you basically take no damage and that is a major factor in a dogfight. They are the only ones ive found to be no danger when surrounded

[Aro]

I've found I hate wasps mainly due to their life time/range. Typhoons are quite fun though.

Mainly sticking to thunderbolts/silkworms. Would use others but we can't produce them in vanilla. *goes to search dev boards for something*

[Tritous]

silkworms are the ones i've really got no respect for. they seem to be too slow for their lack of power / too weak for their lack of speed. Rarely hit and if they do it's not worth the effort lol. at least hornets have an area of hit?

[pja]

I've found I hate wasps mainly due to their life time/range. Typhoons are quite fun though.

Mainly sticking to thunderbolts/silkworms. Would use others but we can't produce them in vanilla. *goes to search dev boards for something*

You can make Tempests and Typhoons in vanilla, I have a complex for them in my current game, one Boron shipyard sell the Tempest forge and one Teladi the Typhoon, I'll let you hunt round for which ones though.

[beholdtherazgriz]

Haven't used wasps that extensively, but they seem fun, it's also amusing to see a ship you're tailing get hit with six small explosions. Also like mentioned before probably good at distracting back turrets in Novas and LXs.

I like silkworms and hurricanes. Whenever I see a cluster I close to about 8 km, tap off two hurricanes and watch the fireworks. Usually only have to deal with the fighter after that.

But as my tag says, when you're in close, for me, it's all about the guns.

[GCU Grey Area]

Big fan of Thunderbolts personally - fast enough to catch most M3s & has a high enough yield that it doesn't take many to destroy a capital ship - excellent general purpose munition IMO. Tend to use them extensively in XIs where quick kills = more kills (i.e. fewer killed by NPCs) = higher pay.
Against anything bigger than an M3, I often use them in conjunction with Wasps to act as decoys - i.e. fire 2-3 volleys of Wasps, then a Thunderbolt, then a few more Wasps, another Thunderbolt, more Wasps... etc - effectively saturates the missile defence capabilities of the target ship's turrets with so many Wasp sub-munitions that the chances of them shooting down the Thunderbolts before they hit are minimal.

[Tenlar Scarflame]

I'm a big fan of missiles of every description, really. I have a specific battle role for almost everything except the dumbfires. I arm M6's with a nice big bucket load of self-manufactured Typhoons, for example, and that makes them nice and deadly against all kinds of targets- also makes them more difficult for capitals to draw a bead on, given that they're being bombarded constantly with missile warnings.

Wasps are what I use when I need a quick getaway- the target will usually start flopping around from impacts and from trying to evade, and that gives me a little time to beeline for a gate/station.

And I like the Silkworm a lot, actually- it's a good close-in missile for nailing M4's. A missile launched head-on or from directly behind is usually fast enough to hit and powerful enough to kill.

The ones I use the least (besides dumbfires) are actually Hammerheads and Firestorms. They don't really act like proper "torpedoes," really... they should have a much smaller blast radius but much higher damage. Say, 1/5 the blast and 5x the damage. That way they're not a "flash-evaporate every small ship in the area" type missile, but more of a real hammer-blow capital ship smasher that's relatively easy to neutralize at medium to long range.

[Tritous]

I know what you mean there. If anything the hornet should be the area effect weapon. The torpedoes should have partial shield piercing capabilities ie it hits for shield AND penetrates through to the hull partly. Still, they are how they are. Should be a similar thing maybe for some of the dumbfires, give them back the punch they deserve.

if you like all missiles how do you get through the issue of cycling through too many options when using them. The hold button two on joysticks is nice for firing one off (eg, a firestorm on a bombing pass, time the release) but not for fast firing).

Do you end up having to dock / freight transfer every time you want to go into a fight?

btw, do you ever find a use for auraras? I know they (like hurricanes) pack a huge blast and have shocking levels of hull damage, but do you have a chance in combat to use them?

[Nanook]

I set a hotkey separately for changing missiles (m), and I use my joystick button 2 to launch them. I can't stand the default hold-to-fire command because I too often end up accidently changing missiles before the one I want fires. Not too good when you mean to fire a Hurricane but the next one in sequence is a Hammerhead.

As for the dumbfires, I find them totally worthless. They're too slow to be useful against targets they can kill, and too weak against targets that don't move fast, or at all. I sell all but the fireflies, which I find so worthless that I never bother picking them up. The credits aren't worth the cargo space.

[Tritous]

thing about the dumbfires, they fire quickly. You can fire 4 fireflies in the time it takes to fire 1 wasp and while you get 8 rounds in 1 wasp, they dont fly a direct course. Fireflies go straight for the target and pack more punch than a wasp so in theory could be used to really plaster an enemy. dragonflies are half the firing rate, 5 times the power (in fact fired full pelt they can compare with the shield damage rate of silkworms but are faster).

Of course, to hold enough for it to add up you need something with lots of cargo, and the larger ships cant equip them

I'm tempted to take your hint and change my buttons now, I did set my alt to fire missile (big button, easy to find in the dark quickly and easy to press) but it can just as well be the change button. then i wouldnt keep firing by accident when i alt-tab

[ephemeron]

A perfect bombing run with a Hammerhead is very satisfying. Anything short of perfect, though, is "THE END."

The missiles I use most (aside from defensive Mosquitoes) are Tempests, to clear out L's and M's while I go after J's and K's.

[Carlo the Curious]

A perfect bombing run with a Hammerhead is very satisfying. Anything short of perfect, though, is "THE END."

Even if you don't die, it's always quite worrying to have a loose Hammerhead crusing through the battlezone (or into the nearest NPC station).

Nailing 3 or 4 XI Ks in one strafing run is always fun though .

The missiles I use most (aside from defensive Mosquitoes) are Tempests, to clear out L's and M's while I go after J's and K's.

I like Tempests as well, although I seem to remember Thunderbolts are more bang for your credits (but no re-targetting).

[jlehtone]

A perfect bombing run with a Hammerhead is very satisfying. Anything short of perfect, though, is "THE END."

Much too binary for me. After a couple Hammerhead runs I bought a Dragon. I can still clean the house in XI, but rather than seeing the "The End" I have at least a chance to limp out. Typhoons for quick XI.

There was a time I cleared Xenon sector from fighters with Thunderbolts and Silkworms. There was a time I cleared Xenon sector from fighters with Firestorms.

These days I have Hurricane/Wasp in M3/M4 just in case an assassination mark in M5 starts off its last voyage nearby.

It has been said that Wasps are a good diversion. I used to fill fleet fighters with them. Why not provide your boys with chaffs?

Tempest, definitely. Too weak to kill average M3 alone, and a bit short ranged, but when enemies are numerous and time to target each limited ...

[yourpowersareweakoldman]

(I use Spacebar for my Missiles)

I love Wasp missiles. So much so, that my first complex ever was Wasp Missiles. Blame it on Macross. I also use Tempests and Silkworms, sometimes.

On my Scorpion Raider, I always carry roughly 8 or so Wasp missiles.

Scenario 1 = "Macross Missile Massacre" Inbound on 2 Flights, First containing four M4's Second containing 1 Falcon, 1 Nova, 2 Harriers.

I rapidly click on each M4 in sequence, and launch a wasp. Then I charge past them as they go evasive... Fly in hard on the second group, Drop two Wasps each on the Harriers (almost guaranteed crippled or kills)

Then I Pump PAC+HEPT's into the Nova as I pass. That'll drop her shields, then I break for about a click and a half, lookin out rear view for incoming turret fire. Turn and come in on the Nova's tail, usually finishes it off.

Now, without the missiles, the M4's will often tie you up, or if you charge past them they'll shoot at you, and you'll be dancing around fire. Whilst trying to take on the Nova. Gaining range on M4's is a slightly longer game than on M3's so it can take a while to get them all.

Scenario 2 = "Xenon Cap Crusher" I dunno exactly how the wasps work damage wise, but the damage seems to 'multiply' if more of the flight of missiles hit.

I was in Xenon Sector 101, In a Perseus, with a flight of Four Perseus wingmen. It took us a while, but collectively we managed to bring down the shields of one of the Xenon capital ships (I forget which kind, K or J)

Then, I said. "I'm gonna kill this mofo" And I fired a huge salvo of like 10 flights of wasp missiles at it. You should have seen it. BLAMBLADABLADABLAMBLAM. Missile after missile pounding the hull, fireballs erupting alll over the thing.

And I watched it's hull register.... Empty completely. From like 80%.

Now, is it mathematically possible for that missile to kill the thing? I don't know. Maybe it got caught in the PPC crossfire, maybe the combined firepower of all my Perseus' helped. I was in the Fog of War a little, so I am not sure. All I know is, The thing went down. Then, I got the hell out of there.

[RustyBayonet]

I almost never use missiles, I have some sort of ethical problem with using them or something lol - even when I play FPS's I always avoid use the rocket launchers and grenades.

[Tritous]

hehe, back in days long gone i was in the top 20 in the world at SOF2, and was nicknamed Darth Nader. 75 kill killing spree with grenades on the server i used to regular resulting in the admin narfing the grenade settings to slow me down. However, 40 of those were headshots, and when that sort of accuracy, the grenade will kill either way

I have recently just added missile data to the XTM ship stat's spreadsheet and noticed that just about everything can use wasps.

I question the power of maybe 3-4 TL's full to the brim with wasps, with missile probability of 100%. actually scrap that, try 20-30 TS's: parallel firing. I reckon that would win an XI mission with far more glamour

[GCU Grey Area]

I question the power of maybe 3-4 TL's full to the brim with wasps, with missile probability of 100%. actually scrap that, try 20-30 TS's: parallel firing. I reckon that would win an XI mission with far more glamour

Now that idea has potential - another possible variant: dozen or so M3 lurking at the edge of a system loaded to the brim with Thunderbolts (nice long range on Thunderbolts). Set them up with the Group Commands missile launch hotkey in the Bonus Pack. End result: swarming Thunderbolts every time a single key is pressed...

[Tritous]

honestly ive never bothered with group commands, I'm a solo fighter (bad i know). I setup maybe 3 m6s as teams in sector patrols but when it comes to fighting I do it myself. however, if you don't want to concentrate then you can just send out lots of ships with 100% miss prob and they'll use missiles instead of normal attacks, thus filling everything.

Actually, you could probably do it with 100+ m5s (everything uses wasps). Can you say 1066 missiles per second being launched? (80 shots per min for each ship)