Could someone explain the use of the Ion Disruptor over PACs and HEPTs?

[Brisos]

I am reading the x3weapons_updated.xls file downloaded from one of the stickies here.

Apparently the Ion disruptor is to used to take down shields. But looking at the details of each weapons I realized this:

The ID does less damage per second (3330d/s) to shields compared to even Alpha PACs (4000+d/s)

The ID does less damage per Energy spent (20d/e) compared to even the APAC (40d/e).

The Ion disruptor takes MORE energy per second.

So I am wondering what its purpose is.

[Kockaspiton]

When you hit someone with ID it stays "locked" on the target, and it don't has travel time, furthermore it won't damage the hull so you can keep the target's shield lowered.

[em3e3]

It can 'jump' from ship to ship, so if a group of ships are close together (maybe like a Kha'ak swarm), you can take down the shields on them all at the same time.

Also useful for missile defense, since precise targeting isn't needed.

But it is bad for using near friendlies, just like the PSGs. Also bad for capturing, something in the game engine reduces the chance of a pilot bailing if you use the ID.

[Poobah]

Yeah, X3's Ions are pretty much useless IMO.

[Dragoongfa]

Yeah, X3's Ions are pretty much useless IMO.

You never had the opportunity to level the shields of a pirate swarm then, ion disruptors are great when you want to bring the shields down on multiple ships or when the enemy ship has better shielding and you want to even the odds.

A few Ion equipped fighter can bring the shields of an M2 down in seconds.

It all comes down to tactics.

[Commander PJ]

I started a thread on this ages ago and people seem to think that ion disrupters are fine as they are. IMHO they have been seriously nerfed from X2. Considering they're supposed to be shield stripping weapons they're a bit rubbish!

[GCU Grey Area]

Also handy to put a single Ion D on each of a capital ship's turrets to make the ship more or less completely missile-proof. Even if none of the ships come within Ion D range, as soon as the missile gets to within about 1km it is instantly fried. Works even better with ships which can fit Flaks - the flak shrapnel causes the Ion blast to jump, extending Ion D range to about 2km. That can sometimes be very useful - occasionally pirates carry very nasty missiles (such as Hammerheads) so the further the interception range, the lower the chance of getting hit by the blast from a prematurely detonated missile. Definitely one of my favourite weapons in the game.

[Darth Harry]

Fortunatly TCs Boarding partys will give the IDs a new life.

[em3e3]

I started a thread on this ages ago and people seem to think that ion disrupters are fine as they are. IMHO they have been seriously nerfed from X2. Considering they're supposed to be shield stripping weapons they're a bit rubbish!

That thread is much older than the Capping Mechanics thread that uncovered the formulae and calculations behind capturing. After that, I completely forgot about using IDs. Although, as I'm sat for an hour trying to take out a Xenon station with my Medusa and PSGs, a ship with IDs would have come in handy.

[fiksal]

The ID does less damage per second (3330d/s) to shields compared to even Alpha PACs (4000+d/s)

provided every APAC 'bullet' hits... I suppose it's possible, though I'd think ID would do more damage in practice.

The ID does less damage per Energy spent (20d/e) compared to even the APAC (40d/e).

Yep, that sounds familiar. ID drain quite a bit of energy.
In fact, if you look at weapons: A and B IRE, A and B PAC, and A and B HEPT, you'd notice the later ones are more energy efficient. The trade off is the accuracy / speed / rate of fire.

As for ID vs APAC the two have somewhat different purposes.
A single ID is really nice as a missile defense gun, without the massive collateral damage of A or B PSG.
For taking down shields - stick with heavy guns.

[GCU Grey Area]

That thread is much older than the Capping Mechanics thread that uncovered the formulae and calculations behind capturing. After that, I completely forgot about using IDs. Although, as I'm sat for an hour trying to take out a Xenon station with my Medusa and PSGs, a ship with IDs would have come in handy.

That thread can be somewhat misleading - Ion Ds are very useful for shield suppression while capturing, i.e. using Ion Ds to keep a target's shields at zero. Although Ion Ds have minimal chance of capturing by themselves, the use of Ion Ds does not significantly reduce the chances of a second weapon installed in the same weapon group/turret from inflicting a hit which causes the pilot to bail. My primary capturing ship is a Colossus which does it's capturing with a mix of CIGs & Ion Ds. After extensive testing capture rates have been more or less identical to ships without Ion Ds (i.e. capture:kill ratio of approximately 1:10).

[em3e3]

Although Ion Ds have minimal chance of capturing by themselves, the use of Ion Ds does not significantly reduce the chances of a second weapon installed in the same weapon group/turret from inflicting a hit which causes the pilot to bail.

That may be the difference - use IonD in combination with another weapon at the same time. But if the source code is correct in that thread, the game engine specifically checks to see if you are using IonDs, and then reduces your chance of capturing.

[GCU Grey Area]

That may be the difference - use IonD in combination with another weapon at the same time. But if the source code is correct in that thread, the game engine specifically checks to see if you are using IonDs, and then reduces your chance of capturing.

That was the factor I was specifically testing to see what was going on. Kept track of kills & captures for one specific ship type: Xenon LX. Used LXs for data gathering purposes because I hadn't done much combat against them up until that point. Killed maybe half a dozen or so early in the game in order to capture 1 to RE at HQ, but after that left them completely alone until I got that Colossus & went Xenon sector farming. While doing that killed around 200 LXs & captured 20, all of which were either killed or captured while under fire from at least 1 Ion D (along with all the other guns of course).

[Sandalpocalypse]

In practical terms I find the x3 Ion Disruptors pretty useless. PACs and HEPTs are too efficient at defeating enemies relatively speaking and don't have the useability problems that IDs have in terms of friendly fire and being forced to switch weapons to actually nullify opponents.

I think they need a significant boost to be useful. I.E. If they temporarily crippled enemy ships after bringing the shields down (say, ten or fifteen seconds) that would be nice. You could dive through a swarm of enemy ships crippling some of them, then come back around with HEPTs and finishing those off.

Current situation is that you dive into a group of enemy ships with IDs and bring down shields on a couple, which is rather useless when you could have blown up a couple with your HEPTs instead.

[ThommoHawk]

I used Ion Disruptors simultaneously with lasers just to help get enemy shields down quicker. Because the ion beam is independent of other weapons on turrets etc, like the PSG, the other weapons function/track better (seem to anyway). Also, IDs seem to use a lot less power than lasers, so firing lasts loger before energy drains.

I have no Idea how well they work OOS, but for the heck of it all my 40 Centaur Anti Pirate Patrols have a pair of IDs mounted on the front, along with BHEPs, and BPAC's iirc, and they are doing fine.

I agree they are fairly puny compared to lasers. I tried out 8 of them loaded into the front of my Hyperion against a Xenon Station and had almost no effect on its shields. Then I sat there with 4 Gamma PSG in the front turrets, and it was destroyed in about 5 minutes, so PSGs are much better.

[Starcub]

My primary capturing ship is a Colossus which does it's capturing with a mix of CIGs & Ion Ds. After extensive testing capture rates have been more or less identical to ships without Ion Ds (i.e. capture:kill ratio of approximately 1:10).

I'm surprised at this. IIRC, one of the reasons that PBE were considered to be the ultimate capping weapons was due to their rate of fire and hit rate, which the CIG sucks at. Supposedly increased hit rates force more frequent bail checks. Therefore, I would be more interested in knowing what bail rates you could produce using ID's in combination with IRE's or APAC's and see how that compares to ID/CIGs and PBE only.

It's ironic that the ID actually lessens the chance for capping. The ID was suppposed to be used specifically for inducing bails as was implied in the plot mission which has you using only the ID for that purpose.

As it is, there is nothing that that the ID can do that other weapons/combinations can't do more effectively. Considering the significant cons that the ID brings, the ID joins the CIG in being one of the most useless weapons in the game.

[fiksal]

Supposedly increased hit rates force more frequent bail checks.

(if I remember it right) the code adds a certain delay between the checks. That delay grows with every hit until it reaches a maximum (then it goes back to initial value). I dont remember (us) ever figuring out the units of time used along with those numbers.

so it's possible PBE looks like an effective capping weapon because it takes its time to destroy the hull. While AHEPT, which may have as good or better the chance of capping as PBE, never gets the opportunity.

As it is, there is nothing that that the ID can do that other weapons/combinations can't do more effectively.

Missile defense in a friendly sector.

[GCU Grey Area]

one of the reasons that PBE were considered to be the ultimate capping weapons was due to their rate of fire and hit rate, which the CIG sucks at.

Well bear in mind I am using rather a lot of them on my Colossus. I usually use the top, front & one of the side turrets to most of the capturing. Weapons currently installed are:
Top = 1x Ion D & 1x A-Flak
Front= 4x CIGs
Side = 1x Ion D, 1x A-Flak & 2 CIGs

Note that the Flaks are only there to extend the range of the Ion Ds, it is very rare for ships to get close enough for the Flaks to play a direct role - the CIGs keep pushing them away, which is fine by me (Flaks kill too quickly for effective capturing IMO).

Using 6 CIGs provides an effective firing rate which is broadly comparable to an M3 using 2 HEPTs or PACs. Did try for a while with 4 PBEs on the front but the short range was a problem when fitted to the Colossus. When ships did get into range PBEs also tended to kill too quickly & couldn't keep ships away from the Flaks, so switched back to CIGs. To be honest though, haven't tried much capturing with HEPTs or PACs - love that 5km range on the CIGs too much.

[Starcub]

(if I remember it right) the code adds a certain delay between the checks. That delay grows with every hit until it reaches a maximum (then it goes back to initial value). I dont remember (us) ever figuring out the units of time used along with those numbers.

so it's possible PBE looks like an effective capping weapon because it takes its time to destroy the hull. While AHEPT, which may have as good or better the chance of capping as PBE, never gets the opportunity.

Makes sense; this would also explain why most of my caps are in the 50-90% hull range. Thanks for the explaination.

Missile defense in a friendly sector.

I assume you meant "enemy sector" since in a friendly sector, the ID is likely to jump to a friendly ship; well in my universe this is the case anyway. I like to run lots of UT's and basic goods factories to keep the economies producing. As a result of my trading, friendly traffic is usually high in most friendly sectors.

Usually the reason I go into enemy sectors is to farm dropped weapons and missiles, this means the ID is out of the question. Furthermore, turreted APAC's are plenty effective enough for missile defense, in addition to making quick work of M5's and M4's which are hard to hit with front mounted BHEPT's.

When you've gotten to the point in the game where you have about 10 mil in the bank (which doesn't take long at all), capping M4's and M5's becomes more trouble than it's worth IMHO.

[Starcub]

Well bear in mind I am using rather a lot of them on my Colossus.

OK, then perhaps CIG's and ID's make sense using your setup on a capital ship as an anti-fighter capping platform. I don't use capital ships much myself, though I imagine that the avoidance profile on some of them might indeed dimminish the effectiveness of the short range capping weapons such as IRE's, APAC's, or PBE's. However, I think you would need to take out enemy M6's or better with a different ship, or a different set of weapons first.