[TC] Xenon PBE Madness

phoenix-it · Post by **phoenix-it** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 07:57

I'm doing one of the plot missions where you have to patrol Circle of Labor. I've been off doing my own thing for a bit and my combat rank is up there (Master Chief I think...). When I pull into the patrol sector with the M5 escorts the L's focus fire my Nova Raider with their rediculous every-cannon-slot-PBE madness and I'm toast.

Do I need to stop here and wait till I've got 30 million in military hardware to move forward?

Sandalpocalypse · Post by **Sandalpocalypse** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 08:04

They usually only have 2-3 PBEs. Could be worse...

-Hit them from afar with missiles to even the odds.
-Close in as quickly as possible and force them to turn away.
-Dump fighter drones at the start of the fight to distract them.

phoenix-it · Post by **phoenix-it** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 08:31

Sandalpocalypse wrote:They usually only have 2-3 PBEs. Could be worse...

1. -Hit them from afar with missiles to even the odds.
2. -Close in as quickly as possible and force them to turn away.
3. -Dump fighter drones at the start of the fight to distract them.

1. They insta-gib the missiles with their forward PBEs, including swarm launched by the wingmen.

2. Tried this too, the other 4-5 PBE the crap out of me while I am turning with the first ship. Not to mention the M6... My 75MJ of shielding is down in about 3-4 seconds.

3. Tried this too, doesn't seem to distract them from focusing ME. If I am the 1st one they see I am dead. This only happens with Xenon because of their un-dodgeable weapons.

They DO have all PBE loadouts. I've capped several and they've got 5-6 PBEs on board. I've NEVER seen a xenon fighter shot ANYTHING but a PBE, excep the Ns that shoot PACs.

I just tried it again after I posted. I'm ready to either start a new game and not build combat rank AT ALL until I'm sitting on 100 mil. Or just abandon the mission until I've got an M3+ and 5-6 M3 wingmen I can send in ahead of me.

junj.chan · Post by **junj.chan** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 08:58

PBEs only have a 1K range, HEPT about 2.5, and energy chain gun a bit more (2.8K i think). So just stay out the way...

I think the main problem is that your flying a brick

if you go fast enough then you close, destroy and pass them long before they can do any serious damage (mamba raider ofc...)

Hob Anagerik · Post by **Hob Anagerik** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 10:42

The Ls are much tougher this time around. Ms and Ns are bearable but a swarm of Ls is a nightmare.

Atkara · Post by **Atkara** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 12:31

Back in X3R, I had followed the "Hit fast, hard and don't waste a single shot" rule to the letter.

Apparently the same rule applies in X3TC too, in a 10times augmented significance.

phoenix-it · Post by **phoenix-it** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 15:44

Atkara wrote:Back in X3R, I had followed the "Hit fast, hard and don't waste a single shot" rule to the letter.

Apparently the same rule applies in X3TC too, in a 10times augmented significance.

I could jump into 2 dozen L's in X3R, alone, and emerge without a scratch... M's were the problem there because of the silkworm missile spam. The M's would drop 2-3 silkworms each during a Xenon Taxi mission, I saw times where there were 20+ silkworms coming in so fast that my turrets couldn't keep up.

Now there appears to be a right-hardware-for-the-job attitude in place. No more combat ace soloing dozens of ships. I need wingmen if I am going to take on 6 L's and a P, since I can't dodge their cannons.

junj said I'm flying a brick.... But the new A. Nova Raider moves at 190, just 10 shy of what the old Mamba Raider did. I dunno, perhaps he's right and there are faster M3's I haven't looked at yet.

WarpedcowOwnzU · Post by **WarpedcowOwnzU** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 19:17

Do a few defend and patrol missions, you should be able to afford a good M6 after maybe a half dozen or so. Do about 20 and you can get an M7.

junj.chan · Post by **junj.chan** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 19:57

I don't actually think nova raiders are bad, I was just being the usual mamba pilot elitist so and so...

its just different flying styles I think, with the heavily shielded ships you come to rely on your shields, which is fine most the time, but now all the xenon seem to have started using PBEs.... on the other hand I've come to rely on speed and agility so I don't feel hard done by having my shields made almost useless.

also, I would think carefully about getting an M6, they do have their uses but they're terrible at dog fighting, so if thats your thing stick to the nova raider, or go cap an LX. Havn't tried the any of the 'Heavy' M6's yet though, they could be pretty decent.

btw, its not rly about how fast you are , its about how much faster than everybody else you are and your ability to decide the engagement range

Sandalpocalypse · Post by **Sandalpocalypse** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 20:50

1. They insta-gib the missiles with their forward PBEs, including swarm launched by the wingmen.

There's tricks for that. Alternating Wasps and heavier missiles, concentrating FF missiles on a single target, launching targets that are skirmishing already, that sort of thing. Using something better than Banshees helps. Their slow speed really hurts their capability.

Also, I'm pretty sure M6s don't do that, so you can bring down their shields a bit.

The Xenon dont mount full PBE loadouts. If they did they would be impossible. With 2-3 PBEs they are mean but doable.

If they really are all barreling at you than they will string themselves out naturally. Take the Ns out on the first pass so you won't have them as distraction when you deal with the heavier stuff. Ignore the Ps.

Launch the fighter drones before engaging, and do (c)ommand -> broadcast -> all combat drones -> attack all enemies. The fighter drones will push up and get the xenon all befuddled. The protect command is sort of futzy at the moment...

JFJohnny5 · Post by **JFJohnny5** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 21:46

junj.chan wrote:also, I would think carefully about getting an M6, they do have their uses but they're terrible at dog fighting, so if thats your thing stick to the nova raider, or go cap an LX. Havn't tried the any of the 'Heavy' M6's yet though, they could be pretty decent.

Don't know if it counts as a "Heavy M6", but have you tried a Vidar yet? <whistle> 5x200MJ shielding. 10 weapon mounts on the front plus 2 in each of the two turrets. It packs quite a wallop. Makes short work of a Xenon P and can turn fast enough 6to keep up with M3, M4, and quite a few M5.

Incubi · Post by **Incubi** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 21:52

The term "Carefull what you wish for." came ever so true on this mission

I had oftenwished that the AI in X3R would use the PBES. ANd now they do , and they rock.

It is good to see the Xenon P patrol now be more dangerous than a single Kha'ak cluster. I allways felt it should. to the player I mean, kha'ak clusters where a joke OSS.

Not that there is a P patrol on this mission.

Note It may not be the PBE that is killing you, after muh reloading I discovered I was dying by way of friendly missle fire. So I avoided the missles and shot the xenon and came through the battle in flying colors.

Keep m's and n's ata distcance sounds like good advice.. except they are m5 and m4. Not gonna happen in the majority of ships you will be flying.

Again I am glad my wish came true.

VincentTH · Post by **VincentTH** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 22:12

Incubi wrote:The term "Carefull what you wish for." came ever so true on this mission I had oftenwished that the AI in X3R would use the PBES. ANd now they do , and they rock.

It is good to see the Xenon P patrol now be more dangerous than a single Kha'ak cluster. I allways felt it should. to the player I mean, kha'ak clusters where a joke OSS.

Not that there is a P patrol on this mission.

Note It may not be the PBE that is killing you, after muh reloading I discovered I was dying by way of friendly missle fire. So I avoided the missles and shot the xenon and came through the battle in flying colors.

Keep m's and n's ata distcance sounds like good advice.. except they are m5 and m4. Not gonna happen in the majority of ships you will be flying.

Again I am glad my wish came true.

This is not the first time that Xenon ships have PBEs. In XTM, I regularly got my arse whipped by LXs with full PBE loadout (wiped my Otas Reaper shield in just seconds), until I realized that I also needed BPE to counter them

[EDIT] It is a good thing that PBE's range got shortened in X3TC. In X3R, the ABPE range is 1.24km, and the BPBE 1.44km (from memory). In X3TC< I believe it is shortened to 800s or something like that. (Have to look at my starting ship Mamba).

Incubi · Post by **Incubi** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 22:18

VincentTH wrote:
Incubi wrote:The term "Carefull what you wish for." came ever so true on this mission I had oftenwished that the AI in X3R would use the PBES. ANd now they do , and they rock.

It is good to see the Xenon P patrol now be more dangerous than a single Kha'ak cluster. I allways felt it should. to the player I mean, kha'ak clusters where a joke OSS.

Not that there is a P patrol on this mission.

Note It may not be the PBE that is killing you, after muh reloading I discovered I was dying by way of friendly missle fire. So I avoided the missles and shot the xenon and came through the battle in flying colors.

Keep m's and n's ata distcance sounds like good advice.. except they are m5 and m4. Not gonna happen in the majority of ships you will be flying.

Again I am glad my wish came true.
This is not the first time that Xenon ships have PBEs. In XTM, I regularly got my arse whipped by LXs with full PBE loadout (wiped my Otas Reaper shield in just seconds), until I realized that I also needed BPE to counter them

[EDIT] It is a good thing that PBE's range got shortened in X3TC. In X3R, the ABPE range is 1.24km, and the BPBE 1.44km (from memory). In X3TC< I believe it is shortened to 800s or something like that. (Have to look at my starting ship Mamba).

XTM was a mod

heh. a very good mod albiet, used so regularly people think of it as an expansion

I tried it once, but that dragon put me off, and I did not like how easy it was to get ships. Also OOS became a nightmare. I appreciated more personal challenges, but the ai under my control wsa just not up to the task.

The Boz · Post by **The Boz** » Mon, 20. Oct 08, 22:21

I just saw the PBE stats... 18k shield damage!? That's almost double the power of a HEPT per shot... And they fire and fly faster too! Is the PBE now what GHEPTs used to be a long, long time ago?

Incubi · Post by **Incubi** » Tue, 21. Oct 08, 01:11

The Boz wrote:I just saw the PBE stats... 18k shield damage!? That's almost double the power of a HEPT per shot... And they fire and fly faster too! Is the PBE now what GHEPTs used to be a long, long time ago?

The PBE is a shield buster. So the shield damage would be large.

Axeface · Post by **Axeface** » Tue, 21. Oct 08, 01:52

They do hit really hard, and i'm loving it. At first I was having real problems but i've just changed my tactics. Now i'm using missiles (I never did in x3r), and I pick my fights. If theres too many I try to pick a few off with missiles from range, and then go in to finish the rest off.

Combat is a lot harder in TC, and i'm really liking it now.

Incubi · Post by **Incubi** » Tue, 21. Oct 08, 03:05

Axeface wrote:They do hit really hard, and i'm loving it. At first I was having real problems but i've just changed my tactics. Now i'm using missiles (I never did in x3r), and I pick my fights. If theres too many I try to pick a few off with missiles from range, and then go in to finish the rest off.

Combat is a lot harder in TC, and i'm really liking it now.

Agreed. and trhe missle approach is probably a good one. In x3 missles where rather lackluster. With the attention to missle improvement, I would not be suprised if they geared combat towards an actual need for them.

The Boz · Post by **The Boz** » Tue, 21. Oct 08, 07:31

Has anyone else here had their own missile kill them 0.1 seconds after launching it?

Thelic · Post by **Thelic** » Tue, 21. Oct 08, 07:48

The Boz wrote:Has anyone else here had their own missile kill them 0.1 seconds after launching it?

Happens all the time, and is the primary drawback to using missiles. If you use them while being shot at, they will probably hit your missile and make it boom in your face.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

[TC] Xenon PBE Madness

Xenon PBE Madness