[TC] IBL verses PPC

[shaub100]

I've seen a lot of talk on these forums about the merits of the IBL. Looking at the stats though its not dissimilar to the PPC in terms of damage, speed, range etc. Given that the IBL are so hard to acquire why are they desired so much?

[strikor]

The desire comes not from the differences between the weapons, but the differences between ships. Many M7s can mount a respectable number of IBLs while only one or two can mount PPCs.

[admiral6436]

I would have to say its merely the fact that most m7s can mount them. only about 1 or 2 m7s can mount PPCs, but the rest can mount IBLs. For my Personal ship, a stolen agammenon, IBLs are the only weapon that makes it useful in patrol missions against destroyers until i get a M2. But once i get an M2 its PPC or PSPs all the way, mainly because IBLs are much harder to acquire the large amount needed (luckily PSPs come in steadily and i have a nice stockpile already.)

[Painman]

IBL is technically inferior to PPC, so the latter is preferable on an M2 that offers the choice. However, IBLs seem to be heavily in use on race military capships as well as larger Pirate/Yaki ships -- this presents interesting opportunities to acquire IBLs through piracy or even dumb luck. I scored 13 of them just by sitting and watching an Argon Titan lose a fight with a Xenon K. I put them on my Boreas, because hey, even though PPCs are slightly better, it was 12 million credits worth of guns I didn't have to buy for the thing.

And as mentioned already, the obvious benefits of putting them on an M7 and turning it into a pocket M1/M2.

[PaulP]

I've been getting loads of IBLs from Otas Boreas ships. I just park my own Boreas (also stolen) 5km away, fire a few charged volleys of IBL (haven't bothered getting PPCs yet) and get their shields down to ~10% without even making them hostile. Then I fly in with my Hyperion and finish taking the shields down (if they turn hostile, I apologize as soon as shields drop). Then I send in my marines and speed away before it kills me.

I've captured 11 Boreas so far, and 4 of them had full IBL loadouts - 32 IBLs each. So I'm sitting on 128 IBLs, most of which I've yet to find a use for.

I guess I'll get me a fleet of Tigers, or something.

The humorous thing is, Boreas are the only ship I can seem to get weapons from captures. Almost every other ship I've stolen has been completely empty, yet I keep getting loads of IBLs on these Boreas captures.

[anneking]

I've captured 11 Boreas so far

Whoa ! Those station protect missions must be a nightmare for you.

11 Boreas strategically placed around station whacking those M5s

Ooops, where’d the station go ?

[ChairborneRanger]

What the hell is the point of having a weapon like IBLs that are supposed to be a pirate/yaki made weapon, very difficult for the player to acquire even in the endgame, but seem to be used by almost every major military's capital ships across the Commonwealth? Its ludicrous that the player needs to do things like cap and destroy other capital class ships to get them in needed numbers, or get yaki\pirate (non-displayed I might add) reputation and wait hundreds of game hours to get enough for one ship. And then, floating all over the X universe, you see garbage like this:

If this was a joke EGO, it's not funny.

What is going on? Military budgets can't afford PPCs anymore? Corruption in the governments causing ordered PPCs being replaced with cheaper IBLs and someone taking a cut? Maybe there's a strike going on by the Intergalactic PPC workers union. In any case, either make IBLs more accessible to the player, or stop NPCs other than pirates/yaki (and maybe Xenon) from having them.

[PaulP]

It's pretty stupid. Every Boreas I see is running around fully loaded out with 32 IBLs (the maximum # the ship can hold in the gun ports). While I find it convenient that I can get enough IBLs for 4 Tigers on half the Boreas I steal, it's ridiculously stupid that the Boreas would be using IBLs instead of ICs or PPCs.

Maybe its an attempt to balance capital ships, since the Boreas is obviously so freaking badass. Give it crappy guns so the other M2s can still beat it up.

[GCU Grey Area]

It's not just the Boreas - most of the M2s I captured in my previous game had dozens of IBLs on board (not all survived the boarding op obviously, however at least 2 of them that I can recall provided 32 IBLs each). Personally think it might be simply to provide an additional source where IBLs can be obtained, just in case all pirate/yaki factories are hostile or have been destroyed. Think it's a good thing - would be much harder to equip M7s if all the NPC M2s were properly eqipped with PPCs instead of IBLs.

[Zaitsev]

The Ray I passed when I was still on the bad side of the borons gave me a full broadside of PPC fire, so obviously not every M2 carries IBLs

With that said, I agree that IBLs are ridiculously hard to obtain, especially when almost every M7 out there use them as their main heavy weapon. You could of course go with the Thresher and put 10 PPCs on it, but it's the size of a barn, too slow and too weakly shielded for my taste. And I imagine those tailfins will cause quite a few accidents.

[GCU Grey Area]

The Ray I passed when I was still on the bad side of the borons gave me a full broadside of PPC fire, so obviously not every M2 carries IBLs

Most do, they may just not be using them at the time Often M2s carry spare weapons as cargo & switch between them. In the case of IBLs there are often enough to install in every turret, irrespective of whether all the turrets can use them - hence the substantial quantities which can be captured during boarding ops (if the RNG's in a good mood).

[Sandalpocalypse]

What the hell is the point of having a weapon like IBLs that are supposed to be a pirate/yaki made weapon, very difficult for the player to acquire even in the endgame, but seem to be used by almost every major military's capital ships across the Commonwealth?

Makes the AI ships more dangerous.

[ChairborneRanger]

What the hell is the point of having a weapon like IBLs that are supposed to be a pirate/yaki made weapon, very difficult for the player to acquire even in the endgame, but seem to be used by almost every major military's capital ships across the Commonwealth?

Makes the AI ships more dangerous.

PPCs are more dangerous than IBLs. The only reason IBLs exist is to be a stand in for PPCs in turret slots where an anti-cap ship weapon is required.

[Zaitsev]

Most do, they may just not be using them at the time Often M2s carry spare weapons as cargo & switch between them. In the case of IBLs there are often enough to install in every turret, irrespective of whether all the turrets can use them - hence the substantial quantities which can be captured during boarding ops (if the RNG's in a good mood).

Hum... Maybe I ought to go cap some M2s then, as supplying the IBL forge in LooManckStrat's Legacy with crystals and space fuel is rather boring.
With my luck it's probably been wiped out anyway by now, and HEPTs in the main slots on my Tiger... Naaah...

[Sandalpocalypse]

PPCs are more dangerous than IBLs. The only reason IBLs exist is to be a stand in for PPCs in turret slots where an anti-cap ship weapon is required.

I was referring to the reasons why every frigate in the galaxy has a stock of IBLs even though they are difficult for the player to acquire.

[ChairborneRanger]

PPCs are more dangerous than IBLs. The only reason IBLs exist is to be a stand in for PPCs in turret slots where an anti-cap ship weapon is required.

I was referring to the reasons why every frigate in the galaxy has a stock of IBLs even though they are difficult for the player to acquire.

And it's not that it makes the AI more difficult that I'm arguing about. It would be fine with me if, as you said, frigates/M7s had IBLs. They provide the M7 class with a viable anti-capital ship option, while maintaining the overall superiority of the M2/M1 class that can mount PPC/IonC/PSP/GC weaponry.

My main problem is that not only can non-pirate/yaki/xenon M1/M2s mount IBLs, they do so more frequently than using standard, large capital ship weapons. If you saw that picture I posted, it shows Argon One sporting full batteries of IBLs. There is absolutely no reason for it to have those over PPCs, or even have IBLs in it's cargo hold in the first place.

Basically what I'm saying is that the ability to mount IBLs needs to be restricted to pirate/yaki/xenon capital ships and the M7 class. It serves no purpose, or makes any sense to have them mounted on Commonwealth M1/M2s when all those mounts could use standard weaponry that is more plentiful, powerful, and in line with the background of the game. IBLs should still be available to the player from capturing ships and purchase from the pirates/yaki, however they should be the weapons that it seems they were intended to be. Not as rare as things like beam cannons and laser arrays, yet not as common as weapons that players can produce using stations of their own.

[Sandalpocalypse]

if it really bothers you, it can be modded in a couple ways

first you could modify the jobs-spawn for m1s and m2s so they get PPCs and such

you have to create a configuration script and then link the spawn for the m1/m2s to that config script

(config script isn't fancy, it just says 'add x # of y ware')

or second you could modify the Tcockpits file so that they can't mount IBLs

[Gazz]

This is a philosophical issue, not a technical one!

The argon military should not have IBL when neither they nor their allies produce them.
The only ones that do... are criminals.

[Etolf]

This is a philosophical issue, not a technical one!

The argon military should not have IBL when neither they nor their allies produce them.
The only ones that do... are criminals.

aw... it just proves the x-universe arms dealings are as corrupt as the ones on this world!