Topic say it's all. I am new to ther game and I do not undestand that. It could only explained as been a bug. Why???
I believe game up to 1.4 pach, such evident bug should be weed out.
[TC] BUG!!! Wingman, turet and drone kills do not count a smy kills.
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Alexei_Gladkikh
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It's not a bug. Only kills where the ship you yourself occupy shoot, counts. Turret kills counts.
Maverick: Requesting permission for flyby.
Air Boss Johnson: That's a negative ghostrider, the pattern is full.
Goose: No. No, Mav, this is not a good idea.
Maverick: Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz a Split.
Split: Split now give you .... Aaaarrriiiigh.
Air Boss Johnson: That's a negative ghostrider, the pattern is full.
Goose: No. No, Mav, this is not a good idea.
Maverick: Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz a Split.
Split: Split now give you .... Aaaarrriiiigh.
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Esc.Control
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Alexei_Gladkikh
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iT'S CLEARLY A BUG.
Missiles kills count, but wingman not?
Why the hell give as tools of making money, build fleet, wings commands??
Game clearly target economical and military development. But what the point of all this if you CAN NOT USE THIS tools in beneficial faction?
It is absolutly clearly a bug. Turets kills do not count as I notice, BTW.
WE have terran misison created to tech use of wing controlls in patrool mission, but use of them is conterproductive? I do not believe it is designer choice, as game clearly directed in building fleets of ships and using them.
Missiles kills count, but wingman not?
Why the hell give as tools of making money, build fleet, wings commands??
Game clearly target economical and military development. But what the point of all this if you CAN NOT USE THIS tools in beneficial faction?
It is absolutly clearly a bug. Turets kills do not count as I notice, BTW.
WE have terran misison created to tech use of wing controlls in patrool mission, but use of them is conterproductive? I do not believe it is designer choice, as game clearly directed in building fleets of ships and using them.
It is clearly NOT a bug because the game has worked like this since the days of X-Tension (the first game in the series where you could really make use of AI-controlled ships). I think the developers would have noticed and fixed a problem that has existed for three games, don't you?
As for turrets, kills gained by the turrets on your own ship definitely do count, at least in everyone else's game--if they're not working in yours then you have a problem somewhere.
As for turrets, kills gained by the turrets on your own ship definitely do count, at least in everyone else's game--if they're not working in yours then you have a problem somewhere.
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Esc.Control
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It has always been this way, so it is clearly the correct way, yes? Best be careful you don't fall off the edge of the world..
Whether or not it is a bug is beside the point. It works in Station Defense, but not in Patrol. It is inconsistent, and we're simply curious why, and which is the intended functionality.
Given the X games incredible support for fleets and wings of support craft, and rather shiatty single ship combat (let's be honest, folks. Is soloing here any more fun than it was in Freelancer or Descent: Freespace?) it seems to us that punishing us for using fleets and AI allies is foolish.
So, it is inconsistent, and we're curious which way is going to be 'fixed'. That's all. Unless Egosoft intends to leave it inconsistent, which seems a little, well, unprofessional.
Whether or not it is a bug is beside the point. It works in Station Defense, but not in Patrol. It is inconsistent, and we're simply curious why, and which is the intended functionality.
Given the X games incredible support for fleets and wings of support craft, and rather shiatty single ship combat (let's be honest, folks. Is soloing here any more fun than it was in Freelancer or Descent: Freespace?) it seems to us that punishing us for using fleets and AI allies is foolish.
So, it is inconsistent, and we're curious which way is going to be 'fixed'. That's all. Unless Egosoft intends to leave it inconsistent, which seems a little, well, unprofessional.
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shireknight
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Turret kills definitely count because when I'm being chased by Khark scouts during patrols I can see the rewards clocking up on the hud from my rear turrets kills.
Wingmen's kills shouldn't count towards your own because they are pilots in their own right just like you are -you wouldn't like it if you shot down people and someone else took the credit for it and the same goes for them lol
Wingmen's kills shouldn't count towards your own because they are pilots in their own right just like you are -you wouldn't like it if you shot down people and someone else took the credit for it and the same goes for them lol
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That's my way of thinking, it's a personal rewardshireknight wrote:Wingmen's kills shouldn't count towards your own because they are pilots in their own right just like you are -you wouldn't like it if you shot down people and someone else took the credit for it and the same goes for them lol
Besides, it would be so easy just to run away from the fight and let your wingmen do all the work if you got all the credit, a bit like office management I suppose 
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Esc.Control
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My wingmen don't have names, salaries, voices, or brains when it comes to maneuvering in combat. I always thought it was AI computer control. Isn't that why you need to buy them combat software instead of, you know, paying them?
On a related note, being able to hire wingmen with actual brains would be awesome, even if I had to pay them.
As for it being a personal reward, and it being too easy to run away and let your AI handle it, I fly carrier craft, and can tell you
1) The AI is far too stupid to handle anything on its own without support from you, and
2) Isn't the point of a carrier to deploy fighters? Why is the M2 pilot paid more for doing his job with turrets than the M1 pilot is paid for doing his job with fighters? Frankly the M1 has more overhead.
On a related note, being able to hire wingmen with actual brains would be awesome, even if I had to pay them.
As for it being a personal reward, and it being too easy to run away and let your AI handle it, I fly carrier craft, and can tell you
1) The AI is far too stupid to handle anything on its own without support from you, and
2) Isn't the point of a carrier to deploy fighters? Why is the M2 pilot paid more for doing his job with turrets than the M1 pilot is paid for doing his job with fighters? Frankly the M1 has more overhead.
1) How exactly do you support the fighters? How do they benefit from your support?
2) Your carrier has guns, their kills add you your credits. The payment for M1/M2 kills is the same. The M1 takes more of a risk than the M2 since there are no fighters (other than drones) carried that can be used to distract the enemy.
2) Your carrier has guns, their kills add you your credits. The payment for M1/M2 kills is the same. The M1 takes more of a risk than the M2 since there are no fighters (other than drones) carried that can be used to distract the enemy.
Wrote a (signed) script for exactly that purpose back in the X2 days (TelCat). There's actually quite a lot of work involved in managing your fighterwings.Mars Mug wrote:1) How exactly do you support the fighters? How do they benefit from your support?
Why do you think an M2 wouldn't have support? My normal battlegroup consists of an M2, two M7 AA plus an M7M for missilesupport.Mars Mug wrote:2) Your carrier has guns, their kills add you your credits. The payment for M1/M2 kills is the same. The M1 takes more of a risk than the M2 since there are no fighters (other than drones) carried that can be used to distract the enemy.
It's a lot easier to manage just 3 additional ships than a whole bunch of fighters wich never even heard of the word "wingman" and scatter across the whole battlefield (and get shot, subsequently) if you let them.
That just means that it is a very old bug.pjknibbs wrote:It is clearly NOT a bug because the game has worked like this since the days of X-Tension
Plus - it has been altered a posteriori for Invasion missions back in X2 wich indicates that X3 should have been like that all the way in the first place. Give me some consistency here...
Have fun: Gala Do.
1) Does the script make the AI fight better or reduce the risk of an AI ship being destroyed or is it a management script?Ghalador wrote:1) Wrote a (signed) script for exactly that purpose back in the X2 days (TelCat). There's actually quite a lot of work involved in managing your fighterwings.
2) Why do you think an M2 wouldn't have support?
3) That just means that it is a very old bug.
Plus - it has been altered a posteriori for Invasion missions back in X2 wich indicates that X3 should have been like that all the way in the first place. Give me some consistency here...
2) I may have got my M1/M2 mixed up, I’m at work so can’t easily check, when I referred to M1 I meant a destroyer not a carrier. Regardless I fight solitary as much as possible. I am currently only using support to try to clear the ‘Final Fury’ sector of 2000 plus Khaak ships. My play style may not match others, I accept that, but if we were to compare player stats with wingmen credits going to the player then I would lose badly in some areas and gain in others. Apart from that though I will say that it will not make any difference to my gameplay if the player gets credited for wingman kills.
3) In my opinion it takes no real player skill to have a large number of fighters wipe out an opposing force, the only real argument I have seen in this area is one of simple economics. I accept that some people like to use fleets, and so do understand that this is important to them.
It is a pure management script.
Helps you form squadrons, helps assigning targets to them, resupplies incomming fighters, can send damaged fighters to a dock, sets missile probability to all fighters of a certain class, launches fighters by catapult and class, lets them dock by dockingcomputer, does not launch damaged fighters, calls back damaged fighters and restocks the squadron with new ones if availlable, renames, equips and so on ...stuff like that.
There's an endless list of things you need if you want to controll the action with that many ships involved.
(M1 = carrier, M2 destroyer (battleship actually))
True, you don't need a lot of skill to kill things if you roll in with superior forces. But i was allways badly outnumbered in the TC i've played. One destroyer ...five ...man, the whole sector was red with page after page of enemy capitals. So no real risk that one could outpower them by sheer number. You would need hundrets if not thousands of fighters to only match their firepower, let alone own them.
It's not that easy to fight in a carrier. You really have to watch your back. It's easier in an M7M far off the coast and then you just let'em fly.
And besides that ...where's the point in carriers if their specific strenght doesn't count?
I don't know why kills by any of your ships shouldn't count. The purpose is served. They don't pay you for style, they pay you to defend their sector.
Helps you form squadrons, helps assigning targets to them, resupplies incomming fighters, can send damaged fighters to a dock, sets missile probability to all fighters of a certain class, launches fighters by catapult and class, lets them dock by dockingcomputer, does not launch damaged fighters, calls back damaged fighters and restocks the squadron with new ones if availlable, renames, equips and so on ...stuff like that.
There's an endless list of things you need if you want to controll the action with that many ships involved.
(M1 = carrier, M2 destroyer (battleship actually))
True, you don't need a lot of skill to kill things if you roll in with superior forces. But i was allways badly outnumbered in the TC i've played. One destroyer ...five ...man, the whole sector was red with page after page of enemy capitals. So no real risk that one could outpower them by sheer number. You would need hundrets if not thousands of fighters to only match their firepower, let alone own them.
It's not that easy to fight in a carrier. You really have to watch your back. It's easier in an M7M far off the coast and then you just let'em fly.
And besides that ...where's the point in carriers if their specific strenght doesn't count?
I don't know why kills by any of your ships shouldn't count. The purpose is served. They don't pay you for style, they pay you to defend their sector.
Have fun: Gala Do.
I can sort of understand the logic behind not giving the player the credits, but like I said it would not affect people like me who don’t use fleets of ships, so seems unnecessary in the presence of complaints. Maybe it could be countered by some statistical data gathering like player ship kills / owned ship kills etc. Would this only apply to in sector fighting?
That's exactly the point i can't understand. Because it kills several other points.Mars Mug wrote:I can sort of understand the logic behind not giving the player the credits...
* You are encouraged to buy fleets. By game mechanics (having more than one ship has allways been one of the unique features of X) and in TC even by income (the incredible ammount of money you can earn in Vanilla stongly sugests, that you buy something for that cash).
What's the point of 10 billions if you are not to build up a fleet?
* Egosoft explicitely enhanced the handling of fighter squadrons in TC.
Why one might ask ...as long as you are discouraged from using them on the other hand.
* There are ships wich strongly emphatize roles - like the Cerberus (flak), or the M7M for example. It's obvious that they have been intendet for use in battlegroups.
* My script for X2 got signed, Egosoft encourages the use of carriers.
As you pointed out - players who prefer single ships won't be hurt at all. So please let the others play their way. Using fleets isn't something that wasn't intended.
Have fun: Gala Do.
I'm not stopping anyone from playing their way. While I don't totally agree with the idea of being credited for owned ship kills, by saying that I don't think it would affect single ship players I am effectively saying that I have no objections to the idea.Ghalador wrote:As you pointed out - players who prefer single ships won't be hurt at all. So please let the others play their way. Using fleets isn't something that wasn't intended.
I still think I should be able to comment and question the idea though; in particular I would be interested in whether the idea extends to out of sector combat. This might sound a bit silly to some people, but I think I'm correct in saying that the player also suffers the consequences of an owned ship's actions, e.g. if one of your ships gets into a fight with a 'friendly' ship your race rank can take a hit? If I am correct then this would add to your argument that you should be rewarded for the positive actions of your owned ships.
If the player statistics do not already do this, then I would like to see them modified so that a style of play can be identified. So someone with a fleet of ships could see how much their fleets had earned for them, and in my case that would be a very low figure. That way I would feel happier that no-one is effectively penalised for following their preferred play style.
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Spaceweed Adict
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Well actually I think you do get paid wether you use fleets or just a single fighter by completing the mission.
I look at getting paid for every kill as a personal bonus to the pilot doing the killing so in that respect then no, No bonus for your fighter squadron kills.
One thing I would of liked to of seen thou is some sort of Fighter pilot script were you could hire experanced fighter pilots for your squodrons therefor giving the player more incentive to use fighter squadroons.
I look at this way I can now go out and hire marines, train them up and use them to attack and capture capital ships.
I can hire Frieghter pilots to run all over the universe for me making me money.
But I can't hire fighter pilots to work for me. In a game which was designed for fleet battles I think this is a major factor that has been overlooked.
Yes we have a lot of verious commands for controlling are fleets, but fleets of rookie pilots well to me there just cannon fodder.
I think it would of been a nice idea where when you buy fighters you also need to hire pilots to fly them and ofcourse train them.
This would make for far better fleet combat as we all know that AI ships just don't cut it.
Anyways something for those talanted scripters out there to think about.
If there are any about I'd be pleased if someone would point me in that direction.
I look at getting paid for every kill as a personal bonus to the pilot doing the killing so in that respect then no, No bonus for your fighter squadron kills.
One thing I would of liked to of seen thou is some sort of Fighter pilot script were you could hire experanced fighter pilots for your squodrons therefor giving the player more incentive to use fighter squadroons.
I look at this way I can now go out and hire marines, train them up and use them to attack and capture capital ships.
I can hire Frieghter pilots to run all over the universe for me making me money.
But I can't hire fighter pilots to work for me. In a game which was designed for fleet battles I think this is a major factor that has been overlooked.
Yes we have a lot of verious commands for controlling are fleets, but fleets of rookie pilots well to me there just cannon fodder.
I think it would of been a nice idea where when you buy fighters you also need to hire pilots to fly them and ofcourse train them.
This would make for far better fleet combat as we all know that AI ships just don't cut it.
Anyways something for those talanted scripters out there to think about.
If there are any about I'd be pleased if someone would point me in that direction.
The way I look at it is that...
1.) I pay for the ship
2.) I pay for repairs
3.) I tell it to fight
4.) I payed for it's weapons and shields
5.) I payed for the fight command software
6.) I lose out if it get destroyed
It sounds like to me if it is a pilot that is driving that thing then he needs to pay me at least a portion of his earning for kills as he gets to use my ship for free. If it is AI controlled then I simply can't understand why I would get paid for it. I never use a wingman for any mission at all because if he gets hurt then I end up losing more than the mission payed usually. The only time I let the AI do any fighting at all with my ships is when they are on sector guard for my factories. Even then things still get sketchy as I have lost an m2 to a buster.
1.) I pay for the ship
2.) I pay for repairs
3.) I tell it to fight
4.) I payed for it's weapons and shields
5.) I payed for the fight command software
6.) I lose out if it get destroyed
It sounds like to me if it is a pilot that is driving that thing then he needs to pay me at least a portion of his earning for kills as he gets to use my ship for free. If it is AI controlled then I simply can't understand why I would get paid for it. I never use a wingman for any mission at all because if he gets hurt then I end up losing more than the mission payed usually. The only time I let the AI do any fighting at all with my ships is when they are on sector guard for my factories. Even then things still get sketchy as I have lost an m2 to a buster.
Those who are afraid of the dark has never seen what the light can do
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Spaceweed Adict
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He is paying you every time he take that ship out and protects you and your assets from being destroyed.It sounds like to me if it is a pilot that is driving that thing then he needs to pay me at least a portion of his earning for kills as he gets to use my ship for free.
What more can a pilot give than his life.
