[IDEA] Fuel Consumption

[Wintermist]

Since I'm a real sucker for realism I was a bit surprised to find there's no mod for fuel consumption.

So, how about adding the need for Space Fuel?

Basically all ships would require Space Fuel and as you travel you would consume it. Without fuel you would be stranded, or perhaps only be able to travel at a very very very slow speed. The larger the ship, the more it would consume. Now for the sake of things the actual consumption doesn't have to be huge, but atleast be there.

Now, we can also add some equipment that would reduce the consumption somewhat.

Things to consider:
AL would have to suffer from this too, which I guess would need to upgrade some behaviour on NPC ships as well as your own traders and whatnot.
This would add a greater market for Space Fuel and added economic benefits.

Anyone else like an idea like this?

[jjz-]

I thought it was pretty accepted that the ships ran off of some kind of nuclear reactor, or perhaps something more advanced. Those types of things do not need refueling for 10,000 years, well beyond the lifetime of the spacecraft.
We have them in carriers nowadays, so I think it is safe to assume this far in the future ships would be using something similar or more advanced.

[Wintermist]

It could well be, but I just figured since there's so much Space Fuel around it has to be used for something... :/ And it's more viable I think, than a nuclear reactor. There wouldn't really be feasible to try and move a ship forward using a propeller in space? :/ How would the reactor transform the power into forward motion?

[X2-Eliah]

Then we would need proper fuel too (Gas, nuclear fission cores, anything), because Space Fuel is pure alcohol for drinking, it would be just like running our lorries and trucks on whiskey - you can do it, but it is not the optimum way..

[Wintermist]

I thought Space Fuel was used as the means of moving our ships, not drinking. I just figured they hadn't implemented it into the game. What? Drinking? For real?

[Lancefighter]

its illegal... if you read the description, its actually argon whiskey.

however you could always add another ware, and use that as fuel..

[Wintermist]

Wow, you're right... I never actually read what it was. Hahahaha!

But yeah, then I guess this whole idea falls to pieces. Otherwise we would require a new station for production and whatnot, I guess it's too much work in the end...

[bones_ayres]

I think I read somewhere that "space fuel" was pilot slang for argon whiskey.

As for the use of fuel for your ships, while it adds to the realism I think it would detract from the gameplay. It adds another level of micromanagment of your fleet which would be ok at the start of the game but once you've got a fleet of transports happening, a 'small' battlefleet rolling around... the logistics starts to mount.

Also, when GOD or khaak/xenon/whoever decides its time for a fuel refinery or two to go byebye you've got the potential for the economy to grind to a complete halt in a whole region of space; more so than a lack of any other resource. At least with another resource in short supply you can drop a factory in and it can kick off the economy; with fuel the AI fleet would probably run itself dry and you'd have sectors full of stranded ships!

[jjz-]

I still don't think it adds to the realism. I would think of it as less realistic if we somehow abandoned the idea of a long-lasting fuel source, which we already have available to us for carriers (and thus I would assume have available to any reasonable sized vessel 300 years from now). Granted these races are different and their technologies are different; however, I think that if humans have already figured out long-lasting fuel options for large craft and have yet to figure out most of the other stuff that exists in X3, then the species in X3 long ago figured out long-lasting power sources for their ships.

[Wintermist]

To get back on that subject, it's one thing to use a reactor on a vessel such as a ship, but a whole different matter in space.

[KaZTek]

That just sounds like a ton of work (especially for AI scripting to make sure AI ships dont just run out of fuel and end up as space junk) for something as simple as fuel limitations.

On the flipside, you could say using the Jumpdrive is the actual way to get around and slow-boating around through sectors is you = out of fuel...

[Saber15]

Basically all ships would require Space Fuel and as you travel you would consume it. Without fuel you would be stranded, or perhaps only be able to travel at a very very very slow speed. The larger the ship, the more it would consume. Now for the sake of things the actual consumption doesn't have to be huge, but atleast be there.

Reduce every ship's base speed to 10m/s and change the name of Engine Tunings to "Space Gas" or whatever, and have them get removed over a period of time when the ship is in movement, the movement speed determining how fast the fuel is depleted.

Of course this would require a lot work with the game's AI, otherwise we'd have hundreds of ships buzzing along at 10m/s.

[Tomonor]

Hmm, yea, it could be done as "Fuel Cell" or something, it could be bought in every trading stations and fuel stations, and if it depleets, the ship's engine output drops down to minimal (~10m/s). The ships should also have Energency fuel, so if the real depleets from the cargo bay, it can be used through an Additional ship command, and it adds 5 units of fuel cells to the cargobay.

Also, energy cells should be also used as these emergency fuel cells... or how about a nice boost?

[Gazz]

You may want to look up the Fuel discussion in the devnet ideas forum, too.

[Alan Phipps]

I think a better eco-friendly concept would be the trade in depleted energy cells. Rather than have crystals as a SPP resource (I know NPC don't need them) why not have depleted e-cells as the resource. These should cost say 6 to 10 credits and a charged cell trades at 12 to 20 credits as now. SPP can only charge as many depleted cells as are available. (Let NPC SPP have a slowly auto-increasing stock of depleted cells to avoid energy droughts but they will always buy them at least at lowest price regardless of stock limit) Player SPP must be supplied with them to produce. Both depleted and charged e-cells take up 1 cargospace. So you can effectively buy energy at about half price if you carry the depleted cells. You could have TSs whose holds are purely e-cell banks that effectively deliver pure energy to holders of depleted e-cells.

There should be a few depleted(uncharged) e-cell factories that use other resources. All other factories less SPP produce their product and depleted e-cells that replace charged ones in the stock according to energy used. If a NPC factory gets full of depleted cells then it stops producing until e-cells are delivered which removes the equivalent depleted ones to the supplying ship. Use of ship jump drive etc converts e-cells to depleted ones in the cargo. You get the drift?

[X2-Eliah]

The problem is that this script would need to monitor every single ship in existence - if it is flying, how fast, how much to reduce the fuel..

I'm thinking major resource hog.

[Killjaeden]

To get back on that subject, it's one thing to use a reactor on a vessel such as a ship, but a whole different matter in space.

Because of?

Take a look at this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcjet_rocket
Have you ever wondered about those "air intakes" (or whatever you call those) on ships? Nearly all ships have something like that.

This peasoup in Boron/Paranidsectors are some sort of gasclouds (propably ammonia?)those intakes could collect ... No need for whiskey.

If you start with realism in a sci-fi-game with energyguns, jumpgates and those things you picked the wrong game in my opinion. If the engines burn fuel they need also O2 or that wouldn't work. You propably would regret those engineidea if you want to fly with a MM6... Do i load shields and guns? Or Missiles and Fuel? Or Shields and Jumpfuel and Fuel?

(Do you remember Hollywoods Pearl Harbour? Some american Bombers with broomsticks as guns because the fuel took to much weight?)

[Wintermist]

I already declared it a no go. So arguing against it or for it is pretty moot at this point. But just for the sake of discussion, which is something I enjoy.

There are several versions of electronic propulsions you can use in space, and all of them have the same thing in common, they're just not very powerful and most likely will never ever become a viable source of spaceship propulsion.

And realism, every game that are sci-fi can still have a sense of realism. It doesn't have to be facts behind every concept in the game, realism is a sense of being plausible. And for me, I'd take an engine needing fuel and gas in space over an electronic magic powered engine.

As I did state, the consumption doesn't have to be large at all. Oh, if the engine runs out of fuel, it could run on the electronic engine in slow speed. This, to me, would be much more realistic. But then again, I'd also have fuel tanks.

[someone else]

The problem is that this script would need to monitor every single ship in existence - if it is flying, how fast, how much to reduce the fuel..

why don't leave this "limitation" of fuel on the Player controlled ships?
AI is rubbish... this will mess it up more... leave this to player's ships.

maybe create a "fake fuel indicator" for NPC ships to give the impression that they use fuel too when you scan them.

AI cheats, and cheats a lot to achieve the "alive universe"... this will be the best option imho...

@Wintermist: in any case if the ship has a exaust (and ships have exausts) the mass it loses from the exaust particles must come from somewhere, energy from a nuclear power plant is useless, because it doesn't create mass.
Thechnically we can have (sci-fi of course) an engine that creates gravitic fields around the ship to make it "fall" in the direction of travel. the ships will need only power to use that engine and they can manouver and change direction very easily... having a front and a back will become useless... the ship can move in any direction at any time.
TC engines have an exaust and TC ships have clearly identifiable front and back... so they use some kind of fuel.

[Killjaeden]

they're just not very powerful and most likely will never ever become a viable source of spaceship propulsion.

Those things are still under development and they are currently only used on small sattelites an such stuff. Remember, the first cars didn't reach 320Km/h =P

will never ever become a viable source of spaceship propulsion.

lol the utilization just has begone Machines will never replace a experienced worker , naa of course not =P