Split Python ....... RIP !

[Sn4kemaster]

The Python, in X3R the M2 of choice for any player, but now a former shadow of its self and the weakest M2 by far, with only 28 guns, weakest shields 6GJ etc etc etc…… the Split M2 the weakest combat destroyer .. oh the shame!

It was ok in X3R just to have 28 guns against every other's races M2 of 40, due to the fact they were always the Beta versions ( or was it gamma ), but they have taken that away so its lost its only advantage, in fact it’s now got the worst weapon selection now ( no flaks !!, can only take 16 PPC’s max all round !!!! )...

Why don’t they just give it more guns, IMO size, speed and shielding are fine, but why don’t they just give it an extra 2 turrets at the front and 1 more on either side, it would still have less weapons and shields than any other M2 ( only 36 with 6GJ ) but that aggressive 12 cannons upfront would give it a real edge again, and keep in with the Spilt way of fighting.

Front 12
Sides L/R 6
Rear 6
Up 4
Down 2

Rant over………….

[JMCorp]

they need to give it back the flacks. for the cost it's not worth it without them. it's still a strong destroyer being the fastest, but the gun selection and lack of shields makes it not worth the money.

[Gazz]

Why does every ship have to be the perfect do-it-all supership?

It doesn't need Flak.
It's a Split destroyer - it needs firepower!

An Achilles heel (like against fighters) is perfectly in character with the Split.

However, having fewer heavy guns than any other M2 is anything but Split.
It desperately needs to have 8 R/L lasers each.

That can even be done in TShips without altering the model...
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 11#2904911

[Poobah]

Yea, the split definitely need a lot more firepower.

"NOW SPLIT FIGHT!"

[jlehtone]

Why does every ship have to be the perfect do-it-all supership?

Indeed, "all equally crappy" would be more interesting. Besides,

The Python, in X3R the M2 of choice for any player ...

Being a choice of every player is clearly bad. It means that all the other ships were made for no reason.

The Patriarch knows that creatures fail. Changing all weapons and rebalancing simultaneously, "Doomed!", says he.

But a True Warrior fights with anything.

[someone else]

actually the Python can turn the side turrets to shoot on front targets, at least mine does that.

another thing that goes unnoticed... its sleek profile. it is smaaaal and flat like a dagger, this makes dodging enemy PPC a joke with strafe.
(look at my ship comparison from my sig)


and for the most annoying fighters you need to have some Typhoons and Wasps on board.

one thing is balancing, one thing is crippling... and the Python is a cripple now.

The Python, in X3R the M2 of choice for any player

now this role is taken by the Boreas. Just in case you want the best.

[pjknibbs]

I agree with Gazz. The whole philosophy of the Split can be summed up as, "If you didn't manage to destroy the enemy before he took your shields down, it's because you didn't bring a big enough gun". Sacrifice shielding for speed, get in fast, blow 'em up quick--that's the Split. The Python is just completely unsuited for that and therefore isn't a very good Split ship!

[Poobah]

All the OTAS stuff needs to be beaten with the nerf stick. Pretty much every OTAS ship is right at the top of its class, or a class above (I'm looking at you Solano).

[TBV]

All the OTAS stuff needs to be beaten with the nerf stick.

I'm not so sure. OTAS is a corporation and should make what people want to buy.
The races ships will be designed with politics, budgets, public-relations and
inter-race diplomacy in mind. So to me it makes sense.

In any given thread on the "best M2" you'll still find that not everyone agrees.
Some prefer the Terran offerings for some bizarre reason, and I would choose a Teladi-M1 as my favourite personal-M2.
It seems to me that sufficient numbers of alternatives can provide just as much, if not more, entertainment-value to fly.

[Nanook]

All the OTAS stuff needs to be beaten with the nerf stick.

I'm not so sure. OTAS is a corporation and should make what people want to buy.
The races ships will be designed with politics, budgets, public-relations and
inter-race diplomacy in mind. So to me it makes sense....

Faulty logic. You're thinking in 'real world' terms, whereas the OTAS ships are in a computer game. A game that supposedly has no I-Win button (ship), but in effect does with the OTAS ships. There should be a reason to use them, but there should be reasons to use other ships, as well. Right now, if you want the 'best', it's almost always an OTAS ship, by far. Yeah, OTAS definitely needs the 'nerf bat'. I thought so in XTM and I still think so.

[someone else]

I'm not so sure. OTAS is a corporation and should make what people want to buy.
The races ships will be designed with politics, budgets, public-relations and
inter-race diplomacy in mind. So to me it makes sense.

Otas has budgets and public-relations and inter-race diplomacy in mind... like all ship builders. So nothing explains why their ships are way more powerful than the ships of other races.
This is a fact. more weapons, more shields, faster.

They have some consistent inconsistencies too...
Boreas description: "With some sacrifices of shielding and armament for speed, this OTAS-developed light destroyer can react quickly to developing situations."
you think it sacrifices shielding? and what weapons sacrifices?
and you really think that Boreas is a light destryer?

[Sn4kemaster]

All the OTAS stuff needs to be beaten with the nerf stick. Pretty much every OTAS ship is right at the top of its class, or a class above (I'm looking at you Solano).

I know, great aint it.....

Boreas, Venti, Solano, Zephy, even the Aquilo is the hardest nut of its class.

Being serious though, Otas are an advanced research corporation, their stuff would natuarlly be the best and most technlogicly advanced....its what they do.

[Nanook]

....
Being serious though, Otas are an advanced research corporation, their stuff would natuarlly be the best and most technlogicly advanced....its what they do.

Again, faulty logic. The most advanced hardware is never available to the general populace. It's classified top secret and available only to the military of the race that corp belongs to.

And once again, it's gamebreaking. OTAS hardware, as easy to get as Argon stuff, but an order of magnitude better than most others. If it's so blasted advanced, it should be extremely hard for the player to get ahold of. But it's not, and hence the problem.

[Psirus]

If the Boreas is the OTAS light destroyer, I want their heavy destroyer

Seriously though, the Split python should have 12 or even 14 forward guns(Keeping in Split philosphy), keep the rest the same for balance.

[TBV]

You're thinking in 'real world' terms, whereas the OTAS ships are in a computer game.

Oh right, ok. I often get those two confused.


EDIT: Question. How can you have an I-win-button in a game where there is no win.
You just get bored with something that becomes too easy, through practise, and
fly something else. I mean really, where's the problem?

[jlehtone]

You just get bored with something that becomes too easy, through practise, and
fly something else. I mean really, where's the problem?

First you ask what ship to use. Easy choice. The "I win".
You get bored, possibly sooner.
And then you have to Think, hard, for all the alternatives are a mile below. You will always compare to the ships you already know.

And you keep thinking that if the game had no such overkill, you had had a chance to Think a bit more about the first choice you made, and that the future choices would not seem so different from the first.

It is all in the mind.

[someone else]

You just get bored with something that becomes too easy, through practise, and
fly something else. I mean really, where's the problem?

The problem is that some people cannot endure seeing overpowered things flying around while other things that could be cool are ruined by a nerf-hammer that simply cripples them.
Call it "personal obsession on balance", but that breaks their gaming experience.
I'm one of them.
Maybe you are not.

[Sn4kemaster]

....
Being serious though, Otas are an advanced research corporation, their stuff would natuarlly be the best and most technlogicly advanced....its what they do.

Again, faulty logic. The most advanced hardware is never available to the general populace. It's classified top secret and available only to the military of the race that corp belongs to.

And once again, it's gamebreaking. OTAS hardware, as easy to get as Argon stuff, but an order of magnitude better than most others. If it's so blasted advanced, it should be extremely hard for the player to get ahold of. But it's not, and hence the problem.

1. In a way i agree Nanook, should it be this easy to get it maybe not? i suppose their are two ways to look at it....that are they 1 under the control of the Argon goverment then your right and you should not get them easly, or 2 are they a totaly independant just bent on making money at the expense of lives, probably a more acurate way this sad world lives, just look at modern companies they sell arms to who they can, often armies are fighting more private forces with better weapons than them, arms company's dont care they just like making money.

2. I dont think any of their stuff is game breaking, its just better, game breaking are ships like the, Hyperion, Springblossom, Spitfyre...they are over powered, fun but overpowered, Otas stuff is just best in class....

[Nanook]

....
2. I dont think any of their stuff is game breaking, its just better, game breaking are ships like the, Hyperion, Springblossom, Spitfyre...they are over powered, fun but overpowered, Otas stuff is just best in class....

I guess this is where we disagree. I don't see the Hyp, Springy, etc. any more overpowered than the Boreas, Solano, Mistral SF, Zephyrus, etc. (fact is, they're probably less overpowered - they're more like 'one-trick ponies' rather than 'best-in-class').

The game balance should be towards making the player make choices and tradeoffs between ships within a class. When a single ship of each class is simply better for all things that class does, then the balance is borked. And this is the case with practically all the OTAS ships.

[Killjaeden]

another thing that goes unnoticed... its sleek profile. it is smaaaal and flat like a dagger, this makes dodging enemy PPC a joke with strafe.

The AI didn't notice yet...

Otas stuff is just best in class...

That's the reason why it is gamebreaking - there is no reason to buy somethin else - because you get a "best in all"-packet.
Zephyr around 400k buckzoids and and 600MJ schields? WTH?
You could use them as 'intelligent tomahawks' if there would be a 'ram enemy' command available

I don't use Springblossom or other overclassed ships - i don't like to use superships.
But others do and if i read "which <entershipclass> should i use" you get following answers:
M5: kestrel
M4: Solano
M3: Spitfyre for cheeeeaaaa... err i mean speeeed or some other M3+ (ok some variety because there are multiple uberadvancedships and the choices are a bit better)
M6: Cheatblossom, Chidar, Chyterion V. (=vacuum cleaner), HCP, Skiron (to get a Vacuum Cleaner or HCP)
M7: Panther Tiger Shrike - but i think it's ok because the other ones have their uses too. except Cerberus because CFAA suckz.
M7M: all the same except Aquillo if no carjacking...
M2: Boreas... Tyr
M1: ??- error- ?? ubar not found in database - error in balance please patch (...tokyo back to pre 2.0) thx

VERY interesting to listen the storys of some player.
In my Springblossom... With my Vidar... My Hyp (vacuum cleaner)...
...blabla...
KILLED <insertinsaneamountofcyphers> M2 so PBG can't be a threat. (oh and don't touch them cuz i use them on my vacuum cleaner):P

edit: In my personalusemod i raised the shields of all commonwealth M2&M1 by 1 and all of the pirate&yaki-caps by 1 too. No it fit's a lot better into the 'new defensivesocietyclass' introduced in TC (Terran 12GJ Cap vs. 6GJ Split wth??). You don't have to give the Python FAA - just give it the turrets other M2 have - and crop the ability to mount IBL on top/bottom on the Boreas and give it the Python... That would make it split - big gunz everywhere! shields? whats that?