[Mod] Formation Collision Fix (FCF) v0.2.1a (9-10-09) Slight M4 Adjustment

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 00:47

Formation Collision Fix (FCF) v0.1a
Note: FCF is currently in an alpha stage of development and is being released for testing and feedback purposes only. Very little testing has been completed and the liklihood of game breaking errors arising is very high. Use at your own risk.
New update with a slightly different approach. Please download and test v0.2.1a. When testing please be sure to attempt M3/4/5/6 combat vs large ships, boarding actions, and formation flight. Lower priorities at this point are group docking (see here: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... t=#3032080 ) and fighter v fighter combat ( just to be safe). Updated from 0.2a to 0.2.1a to address some issues with faster M4

Overview:

We've all had our wingmen smash into ships they're ostensibly protecting. Inevetibly destroying themselves and causing significant damage to their charge. Most flights of M5s can be best described as an angry hornets nest of buzzing, manned, missiles rather than a cohesive flight group.

I believe I've solved this problem.

With some minor tweaks even fully tuned M5s fly in formation, and patrol groups are finally orderly. Carrier pilots can finally sleep soundly knowing their fighter wings won't turn into a bug splat on your windshield.

Detail:

I've increased the collision avoidance zone (but not the actual collision volume) of every ship in X3 Terran Conflict. It was a very long and tedious process but the end result is that formations have spread out and become much more stable. While performing testing I've ensured that attack runs vs capital ships are still possible and that docking is still possible for all ship classes as well. This testing is very spotty at the moment and I would not be at all surprised to hear of problems docking/attacking (or even corrupted scene files, I made alot of changes and a typo somewhere is inevitable). This is why FCF is only in an alpha stage at present.

Note that the formations are still not perfectly stable--some ships will still occassionally enter collision avoidance mode and start buzzing around. However their neutral position is now sufficiently distant from one another that they don't even come close to colliding. The formation will then tend to settle back down to a neutral state in just a couple of seconds. Also, this is actually a rare occurrence rather than the norm.

Examples:

Here is a picture of a full flight of 10 fully tuned Rapiers (M5) in formation:
http://imgur.com/8pJ28.jpg
[ external image ]

Video of 5 fully tuned Rapiers (M5) following me at 90% (~390 m/s) speed through a 90 degree turn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF8NFFWCr98

Video of a Centaur on patrol with a wing of 5 fully tuned disco raiders set to attack target of... tailing along:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xi7xY9PTCk

Download:

FCF v0.2a is designed for and compatible with X3:TC v2.1 only.

Please Update to FCF v0.2.1a
http://www.mediafire.com/?ev4j4mmogdx

The Link for FCF v0.1a remains below for reference only in case it becomes necessary to revert back from 0.2a. At this point it is depricated. There is no reason for most anyone to download it...
FCF v0.1a: http://www.mediafire.com/?zzzy2mzyyem

Installation:

1. Download the FCF archive from the link above.

2. UnRAR the archive.

3. Install the FCF files as false patches

To install FCF as a false patch simply unrar the files into your X3:TC directory and rename the cat and dat file pairs of your chosen modules to the next highest sequential number in the directory. For example, if the highest cat / dat pair you have in your X3:TC directory prior to the installation of FCF is 08.cat and 08.dat then rename the FCF.cat / dat to 09.cat and 09.dat.

Savegame compatibility:

Savegame compatibility should be readily achievable but will require a slightly different file structure. It should be readily apparent to those of you experienced in modmaking/installing how to go about doing so. I however will not make this readily available to the general public until FCF is out of an alpha stage. Many issues can arise from a botched savegame install and I'd like to hear initial bug reports and feedback with out having to deal with this initial complication.

Don't worry, it's possible and I'll discuss it at length once I'm sure FCF won't utterly destroy your game.

General Compatibility:

FCF modifies literally every single ship scene in the game, but nothing more. If a modification does not rely on altering these files then it should be fully compatible. I will naturally be releasing a BSD compatible module once FCF has left the alpha stage of development. I wouldn't want you to have to choose between FCF and BSD =)

Upgrading:

For the alpha period, just delete the old cat/dat files associated with FCF and replace them with the new ones. Then just start a new game. No [supported] savegame compatibility, so no issues.

Uninstall:

Just delete the cat/dats associated with FCF. This process will break savegames, so you'll have to start a new game at that point (at least until I fully provide instructions on savegame compatibility and reversibility). It's entirely possible to uninstall without breaking savegames, but again, this is an unsupported feature until this initial testing phase has passed.

Changelog

0.2a->0.2.1a

Code: Select all

M4 Probe increased from 50,000 to 75,000

0.1a -> 0.2a

Code: Select all

-Removed exclusion zones from M7/7M/2/1 & TL
-Kept base exclusion zone around M8/6/5/4/3 TS/P/M
	M5/4/3		20,000 
	M8			30,000 
	M6 TS/P/M	50,000 
-Added Forward Probe to M8/6/5/4/3
	M8/4/3		50,000
	M6			60,000
	M5			120,000
-Increased ALL weapon ranges by 300m (not the frags from things like cluster flak though--flak bullet range increased, AOE once it explodes was not touched). This was done by increasing bullet lifetime, not speed.

Check out my other contributions:
Bomber and Shuttle Docking
X3 RTS Interface HOWTO

someone else · Post by **someone else** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 01:13

whoa!

you did it!

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 01:19

I try

Now get playing and tell me what I broke!

Jashashunter · Post by **Jashashunter** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 01:33

This is going to be probably the most valuable script/mod ever. I dont know much about the modding process so unfortunatly I wont be able to help you test it early. maybe when it hits beta as you say this alpha is not for normal players.

yokozuna · Post by **yokozuna** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 01:34

Decreased collisions is good but does the FCF have some negative or positive impact on the fighters combat performance? I mean do the changes made affect in any way their effectiveness?

someone else · Post by **someone else** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 01:39

yokozuna wrote:Decreased collisions is good but does the FCF have some negative or positive impact on the fighters combat performance? I mean do the changes made affect in any way their effectiveness?

considering that they "think" that they are bigger, they will stop colliding with their companions while doing attack runs.

They will surely break the attack before than usual, but yeah... you prefer a few more shots but a dead fighter or a few less shots and a fighter that can return?

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 02:15

I'm watching this to see where it goes. Might even do a few tests myself using souped up ships

If it works out, I'll include it in the Merge Mod and AMS Mod.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 02:38

So I'm playing around with it running some more tests...

I'd just like to point out that #Formation Leaders and Max # Ships in Formation actually works now.

Gorium · Post by **Gorium** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 02:48

How much taxing is it on the system compared to normal wing manoeuvers?

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 02:50

The other thing to check, is the effect on boarding. Specifically a M6 or TP boarding something like a TL or M6. Since those are plot senarios, its important to make sure they dont get buggered up any further.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 02:52

Gorium wrote:How much taxing is it on the system compared to normal wing manoeuvers?

Not at all, as far as I've been able to tell. Fraps has been giving me the same FPS before/after at least. I'll admit to not having engaged in any huge firefights--just 20 fighters vs a K and 5v5 fighter engagements. So far so good.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 02:57

apricotslice wrote:The other thing to check, is the effect on boarding. Specifically a M6 or TP boarding something like a TL or M6. Since those are plot senarios, its important to make sure they dont get buggered up any further.

I'll look into it. I do hope you can participate in the alpha though. You're one of the modders I know that will be best able to pinpoint and isolate a cause for something if an issue pops up. If you can spare the time I'd appreciate your help. =)

The number of changes I made are massive and trying to test all of them myself simply is not possible...I know for a fact that many of the bounding boxes will require fine tuning as I mostly just went along class specific lines for determining collision zones. I would have rather not have, but it was necessary to keep it from taking weeks instead of days to implement. Now's the time to see if the approximations are sufficient and fine tune where they aren't.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 03:07

someone else wrote:
yokozuna wrote:Decreased collisions is good but does the FCF have some negative or positive impact on the fighters combat performance? I mean do the changes made affect in any way their effectiveness?
considering that they "think" that they are bigger, they will stop colliding with their companions while doing attack runs.

They will surely break the attack before than usual, but yeah... you prefer a few more shots but a dead fighter or a few less shots and a fighter that can return?

What Someone Else said. Also, if you issue a wing attack order, or any other order in which they're supposed to form up into formation before moving out, they'll actually arrive in formation and together. This can be good for, say, making sure your heavily shielded M6 arrives at the head of the formation and takes the brunt of the hostilities, leaving his m4 support to cover him.

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 06:03

I've found that the collision exclusion zone around M7s are too big and also that I need to tighten up some of the M1/M2s. Everyone can still attack the large ships, but the attackers slow down too much as they approach because they think they're getting too close to the ship. This is desired behavior but I think it's a little too far out yet though.

I've also found some states that will actually guarantee a ship will crash into a capital ship--If a fighter manages to find itself in certain special areas of the exclusion zone it will become trapped and not able to get away from the capital ship...

I may experiment with only expanding the collision zones of small ships such M5/4/3/6/8 and TS/P/M while leaving the capital ships untouched. I think that might produce better and more consistent results.

Edit: Just ran a few fights against some M1/2/7 with fighters. I think it runs much better without the exclusion zone on big ships. I'll upload a new version that just alters small ships in a bit.

Gazz · Post by **Gazz** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 07:27

Was it necessary to add that many camera dummies?

Maybe it's sufficient to add one (or 3) in front of the ship to "feel ahead".

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 07:40

Gazz wrote:Was it necessary to add that many camera dummies?

Maybe it's sufficient to add one (or 3) in front of the ship to "feel ahead".

This is what I just got caught out on in v0.2a (which has since been removed). I was going to try to move everything to the forward component which would mean I only had to have it on the nose of fast ships so they could detect and avoid oncoming obstacles. Two problems arose

1) It would send anything they were looking at into avoidance mode, whether or not it was warranted. This causes issues during dogfighting.
2) How long do I make the probe? they have to avoid significantly sooner for an M1 than an M6--if I just stick a probe out front they avoid at the same time for each. The simple answer is the minimum amount of space for them to turn away when going max speed, but what if delta-v is greater than their max speed (target is approaching them)? Too long and attack runs fail, too short and it dies in a fire against the hull.
3) Formations collapsed again.

1 & 2 can be resolved with some thought and experimentation. 3, is the really tough one given the number of formations and possible positions within those formations.

I'll keep playing with it tomorrow though.

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 07:41

When attacking, one doesnt really want ships to slow down near the target. That just makes them vulnerable to PD.

StarbuckAK · Post by **StarbuckAK** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 07:42

this is looking very interesting. i'm eager to see how it pans out. thanks for doing this!

Alkeena · Post by **Alkeena** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 07:45

apricotslice wrote:When attacking, one doesnt really want ships to slow down near the target. That just makes them vulnerable to PD.

Better than splattered on the side of the ship, no?

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Thu, 10. Sep 09, 07:45

If you limit it to "fast ships", then what happens to all the "slow ships" given a supertune ?

It should be assumed that potentially any ship could be travelling towards the 1000 mark. (After that, the pilot is suicidal anyway, so it doesnt matter !)

For example, all my AMS ships are sped to 500 or thereabouts. That includes the capital ships.

Alkeena wrote:
apricotslice wrote:When attacking, one doesnt really want ships to slow down near the target. That just makes them vulnerable to PD.
Better than splattered on the side of the ship, no?

Same result isnt it ? Still a dead ship. If dead ship by PD is acceptable, why bother going to all the trouble, when its still a dead ship colliding ?

Put it another way, I want LIVE ships. I give them speed to make them safer. I dont expect them to slow down to 0ms near the target so they can execute a docking turn before powering away. Makes them dead meat.

Edit3 : Maybe you are on the right track but missing a wheel. Can the changes your making work if you use both the cameradummies AND a script upgrade ? So if your attacking a capital ship, you tweak the code to adjust for your model changes, M6s have a different tweak and fighters and freighters use the existing code.