[X3TC] And yet another M7 thread.
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
[X3TC] And yet another M7 thread.
Is it only me, or isn't the Deimos vastly much more better than the Argon M7? I mean, it can mount 6 Gj shields, while the Cerberus can only mount 3. It has pretty much the same weapon loadouts as well as far as I can see.
I'm planning on buying a M7, and Argon and Paranid are the only ones available to me right now at the current moment. Just why is the Cerberus just as expensive as the Deimos?
tl, dr - Cerberus vs Deimos.
I'm planning on buying a M7, and Argon and Paranid are the only ones available to me right now at the current moment. Just why is the Cerberus just as expensive as the Deimos?
tl, dr - Cerberus vs Deimos.
The Deimos is indeed a much better anti-fighter frigate (which is what the Cerberus was designed to be, according to its description), but the Cerberus has its advantage as well: it's the better shielded one of the 2 only M7 that can mount IonDs in their frontal slots.
But if you don't need that, the Deimos can do everything else the Cerberus can, but with more shields and PSG.
But if you don't need that, the Deimos can do everything else the Cerberus can, but with more shields and PSG.
- Deadbeat_Spinn
- Posts: 6483
- Joined: Wed, 19. Nov 08, 20:47
The Cerberus is more of an anti-fighter M7 while the Deimos is more of an anti-capital. Just be careful when using PSG's.
IIRC, Paranid capitals were among the most expensive in their class, I think the Argons are just trying to pry more money out of the player. Personally though I prefer the the Split and Teladi M7's.
IIRC, Paranid capitals were among the most expensive in their class, I think the Argons are just trying to pry more money out of the player. Personally though I prefer the the Split and Teladi M7's.
Wait, what? It's better shielded because it can mount a different gun?Antarus wrote:it's the better shielded one of the 2 only M7 that can mount IonDs in their frontal slots.
Which was excactly what I thought. Still doesn't explain why they're equally priced though.But if you don't need that, the Deimos can do everything else the Cerberus can, but with more shields and PSG.
The Shrike? It does cost around 6 million less... I could be better off taking that one. Have to do a few missions for Teladi first in that case, however.Personally though I prefer the the Split and Teladi M7's.
Last edited by Jonlissla on Mon, 2. Nov 09, 19:09, edited 1 time in total.
I would go and gain rep with either the split or the teladi as their m7's are much better. You more than likely need a m7 that can go up against a m1/m2 and the cerberus and deimos aren't very good at this. The panther is the most powerful m7 since it can dock 32 fighters and its also good in anti capital ship role. Shrike is the cheapest and the tiger feels teh mst like a m3 so any of these 3 are better than the 2 you mentioned.
The only M7s that are good in an anti-capital ship role without getting IBLs (which can be difficult) are Shrike, Thresher and the Paranid ones. Of those, the Paranid ones require you to get close enough to use PSG, which is dangerously close in some cases; furthermore, PSGs tend to have major friendly fire issues. Given that, I'd go for a Shrike--it's a bit slow but it has a huge cargo bay, docks more fighters than any M7 other than the Panther, decent shielding, and its guns are pretty readily available from the Teladi once you have high enough rank to buy the ship itself.
Guess you're thinking about the Gauss Cannons? How much ammunition do they drain with each shot? I'm getting slightly scared by the thought of only having like 200 "bullets" for prolonged fights.insolent1 wrote:You more than likely need a m7 that can go up against a m1/m2 and the cerberus and deimos aren't very good at this. The panther is the most powerful m7 since it can dock 32 fighters and its also good in anti capital ship role. Shrike is the cheapest and the tiger feels teh mst like a m3 so any of these 3 are better than the 2 you mentioned.
I think that's wrong, the Deimos can mount flaks everywhere except the front slots and it can have PSG as well. Since it is also better shielded, it is definetely better against fighters than the Cerberus.The Cerberus is more of an anti-fighter M7 while the Deimos is more of an anti-capital. Just be careful when using PSG's.
No, there are 2 M7s that can mount IonDs front: Cerberus and Carrack, but the Carrack has only 2 GJ shields and can't be bought.Wait, what? It's better shielded because it can mount a different gun?
I think most ammo based weapons are a 100 shots per crate of ammo, Gauss dosen't use much ammo and the shrike has a huge cargo bay. I normally crusied around with about 50 crates of it and never had ammo problems.Jonlissla wrote: Guess you're thinking about the Gauss Cannons? How much ammunition do they drain with each shot? I'm getting slightly scared by the thought of only having like 200 "bullets" for prolonged fights.
EBC, GC and M/AM weapons are some of the best weapons in the game
insolent1 wrote:Ah, so THAT'S how it works. Always thought it was per shot, but that didn't make much sense since the ammo costs like 80k for GCs.Jonlissla wrote: I think most ammo based weapons are a 100 shots per crate of ammo, Gauss dosen't use much ammo and the shrike has a huge cargo bay. I normally crusied around with about 50 crates of it and never had ammo problems.
-
- Posts: 2259
- Joined: Fri, 6. Feb 09, 20:52
A word of warning about the Shrike: some larger M3s cannot dock in its bay for some reason. The Tenjin(Yaki M3+: 9 forward guns, PBG compatible ) certainly doesn't fit, and I believe several others don't.(unless this has been fixed/is due to my bad luck) I like the Deimos actually- It is essentially a more powerful Cerberus, and the shielding along with its 'dinner plate' profile makes it a capable multi-role ship. I admit I rather like the Tiger too, but its lack of a hangar bay makes refuelling/saving harder.
Allergic to work.
If at first you don't succeed, delegate the job to a minion.
If at first you don't succeed, delegate the job to a minion.
Just bought the Shrike, as it was the cheaper choice. Had to do a few missions for Teladi though.
Anyway, so far I like this ship. With MARS installed, the turrets change to FAA whenever a fighter comes in range, and with 8 CIGs mounted up front, makes short work of every M6 I've met. Also have a few Gauss Cannons, but they haven't done anything worthwhile so far. Need more ammo as well. Nice to have a big cargobay for once.
Got two questions though.
First, since I now have a capital ship, I can only dock on equipment docks and shipyards. In order to dock on other stations, do I need to have any special equipment, or am I forced to use another ship to trade for me?
Second, my personal fleet, who follows me everywhere, consists of the moment two fully upgraded Centaurs. I'm not quite sure if having something else would help as well. I was thinking of buying a bunch of fighters and load them on my Shrike, but how good/bad survivability do most M3/4 have? I don't want to have to pay up over 2 million after doing a mission. If that's the case I'd go bankrupt pretty fast.
Anyway, so far I like this ship. With MARS installed, the turrets change to FAA whenever a fighter comes in range, and with 8 CIGs mounted up front, makes short work of every M6 I've met. Also have a few Gauss Cannons, but they haven't done anything worthwhile so far. Need more ammo as well. Nice to have a big cargobay for once.
Got two questions though.
First, since I now have a capital ship, I can only dock on equipment docks and shipyards. In order to dock on other stations, do I need to have any special equipment, or am I forced to use another ship to trade for me?
Second, my personal fleet, who follows me everywhere, consists of the moment two fully upgraded Centaurs. I'm not quite sure if having something else would help as well. I was thinking of buying a bunch of fighters and load them on my Shrike, but how good/bad survivability do most M3/4 have? I don't want to have to pay up over 2 million after doing a mission. If that's the case I'd go bankrupt pretty fast.
With an M7 or larger class ship, you'll need another ship to do the trading for you. Otherwise, you can always try freight drones...although I'm not very sure how to use them. It seems they aren't implemented too well in the game, as it takes a long time for them to dock at the station, trade, and then dock back at your ship (being OOS helps a little bit, but then you can't be on your shrike). Also, it seems rather difficult or frustrating to automate them, as you have to manually tell them what to do each step (dock, trade, undock and then dock at your ship). If I'm wrong, someone please correct me, as I have little idea on how to use freight drones.
Another option is to have a personal TS follow you, maybe one sector away for safety? Just have it jump in, dock and trade for you, then use a transporter device to beam over the goods. Helps when you want to buy lots of a certain good at one time, say energy cells, ammo, or missiles.
But yes, in general, it's a PITA to refit and refuel capital ships.
As for fighter escorts, you'll probably need a steady disposable income supply, as they can take a small fortune to maintain, and even more to replace if needed. In small engagements, mounting flak is probably enough as your shields should be able to outlast the enemy, but when you get swarmed and decide to launch fighters, you'll need the money to have them well equipped. Either you invest in heavy weaponry, shields, and missiles (not to mention fight software) for each fighter to increase their chances of surviving, or you'll need to replace them more often if you don't arm them as well. Either way, it will take quite some money, probably around 15 mil total for 7-8 well equipped fighters? (I forget how many spacecraft the shrike's hangar can hold).
Maintaining a fleet is rather costly...
Another option is to have a personal TS follow you, maybe one sector away for safety? Just have it jump in, dock and trade for you, then use a transporter device to beam over the goods. Helps when you want to buy lots of a certain good at one time, say energy cells, ammo, or missiles.
But yes, in general, it's a PITA to refit and refuel capital ships.
As for fighter escorts, you'll probably need a steady disposable income supply, as they can take a small fortune to maintain, and even more to replace if needed. In small engagements, mounting flak is probably enough as your shields should be able to outlast the enemy, but when you get swarmed and decide to launch fighters, you'll need the money to have them well equipped. Either you invest in heavy weaponry, shields, and missiles (not to mention fight software) for each fighter to increase their chances of surviving, or you'll need to replace them more often if you don't arm them as well. Either way, it will take quite some money, probably around 15 mil total for 7-8 well equipped fighters? (I forget how many spacecraft the shrike's hangar can hold).
Maintaining a fleet is rather costly...
This is what I thought. In that case it's better to try to get some more M6s and then outfit them with sufficient weaponry. I have the Bribe the Pilot script so getting some firepower shouldn't be that hard.okiepokie wrote:
As for fighter escorts, you'll probably need a steady disposable income supply, as they can take a small fortune to maintain, and even more to replace if needed. In small engagements, mounting flak is probably enough as your shields should be able to outlast the enemy, but when you get swarmed and decide to launch fighters, you'll need the money to have them well equipped. Either you invest in heavy weaponry, shields, and missiles (not to mention fight software) for each fighter to increase their chances of surviving, or you'll need to replace them more often if you don't arm them as well. Either way, it will take quite some money, probably around 15 mil total for 7-8 well equipped fighters? (I forget how many spacecraft the shrike's hangar can hold).
Maintaining a fleet is rather costly...
I always have an M3 docked which I use as a freight shuttle (I use Blastclaw Prototypes where possible. The Falcon Hauler for XL cargo). Then it is just 'Trade->Buy Ware->Solar Power Plant->E-Cells'. Nothing could be easier.
My system is to have a central station which I use as a rearming dump and just use my docked craft to move things back and forth. This of course does not work for the docking point deficient M2s. I consider it to be a major mistake not having even a single dock point on M2s. It just seems like putting pointless obstacles in the users path. You can hardly use an M2 as a carrier if it had 1/2 dock points.
Also congrats on the Shrike. I actually find it to be the best of the M7s. Those Gauss Cannons are a life saver in pitched battles when your power grid is being choked by all the firepower. The ability to keep doing mass damage after your power reserves run dry is a good send. I'm all kissy kissy with the Yaki and have all the IBLs I will ever need but I still mount 4 Gauss Cannons on my Shrike.
My system is to have a central station which I use as a rearming dump and just use my docked craft to move things back and forth. This of course does not work for the docking point deficient M2s. I consider it to be a major mistake not having even a single dock point on M2s. It just seems like putting pointless obstacles in the users path. You can hardly use an M2 as a carrier if it had 1/2 dock points.
Also congrats on the Shrike. I actually find it to be the best of the M7s. Those Gauss Cannons are a life saver in pitched battles when your power grid is being choked by all the firepower. The ability to keep doing mass damage after your power reserves run dry is a good send. I'm all kissy kissy with the Yaki and have all the IBLs I will ever need but I still mount 4 Gauss Cannons on my Shrike.
If you're going for M6 escorts, beware that certain combat missions, like patrol sector, may scale the difficulty according to the ship you're piloting and any nearby ships (either within 15 km of you or the entire sector), so if you bring along a large armada of warships, be prepared for some tougher enemies, or at least higher numbers of them. What you could do is jump all of your escorts out of the sector, then accept the mission, then jump them back in. However, since many enemies may spawn near jump gates (especially during station defense missions), be careful which gate you choose for your escorts to re-enter the sector, lest they end up crashing into enemies and end up damaged or destroyed in the process. Planting enough satellites to monitor the gates should be helpful such a situation happens to you. And it gives you a heads-up on where the enemies are coming from.
M6 escorts? Does that actually work? From my experience, M7 can handle anything smaller than M2 alone without any problems, and if you are facing an M2 than sending fighters or M6 would be a waste of money, they all die before they get the chance to do something useful.
I think the best setup would be a kestrel as a personal shuttle and some unarmed Falcon Haulers and/or Blastclaw Prototypes for small trading, unless you have a TS for that.
I think the best setup would be a kestrel as a personal shuttle and some unarmed Falcon Haulers and/or Blastclaw Prototypes for small trading, unless you have a TS for that.
M7 can handle M2 alone without any problems as well, provided you have some decent anti-capital guns (GCs on Shrike work beautifully) and know how to put the ship into reverse and strafe! In fact I find M2s easier than M7s--they're slower, so you have quite a bit longer of being able to shoot at them before they get close enough for their own guns to have much chance of hitting you in return.
Oh, and you don't need MARS, either--four FAA will take down groups of fighters frighteningly quick.
Oh, and you don't need MARS, either--four FAA will take down groups of fighters frighteningly quick.
Just noticed that as I went into a pirate sector. He and his fleet was problably going to go through the gate so I almost crashed into it. Made me shit bricks, but beat both him and the rest of his friends with more than 1/4 of my shields left.pjknibbs wrote:M7 can handle M2 alone without any problems as well, provided you have some decent anti-capital guns (GCs on Shrike work beautifully) and know how to put the ship into reverse and strafe!
The Shrike really is a good ship. Too bad I'm not that fond of flying larger ships, since I value speed and maneuverability. Thinking of getting a Heavy Dragon and use it as a flagship instead, while my M7 will jump in sectors where I will need some help.